Forum Moderation Feedback

[captain lust]

Criticism is not only acceptable but important to keep the forum running in check. When it comes in the form of abuse directed at myself and / or other forum staff, it no longer provides that benefit and has to be dealt with.

All users here were politely asked to change their avatars. When several users decided to both ignore that request and continue posting abusively, then it required a response. I'm happy for discussion to continue as long as it is both calm and respectful! I think that's reasonable enough.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

I'm talking about arc's first post. It wasn't the most kindly worded, but it was in no way abusive (neither to yourself nor other staff) and I strongly challenge your assertion that it was. The worst thing that was directed at anyone was "grow up". Come on, now.

 

[Areze]

Yeah, this is approaching 'crock of ****' territory.

Also the assertion that 'criticism is important to us no really' rings hollow when it is nigh uniformly ignored or dismissed by the mods.

 

[Curiocaueri]

Kinda ironic that Captain Lust deletes and hands out warnings for sexualized plant avatars.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

Clearly Lust must change his name to comply with his own instructions. Otherwise he'll have to forcibly change his name while deleting his own posts and giving himself a week-long mute for not complying with his own instructions.

 

[captain lust]

I'm talking about arc's first post. It wasn't the most kindly worded, but it was in no way abusive (neither to yourself nor other staff) and I strongly challenge your assertion that it was. The worst thing that was directed at anyone was "grow up". Come on, now.

That's not strictly true. I'm not sure if you have it on record but looking back at the post, I can see there are some valid points in there. On the whole, it's not written in a remotely constructive manner though and it's not a helpful contribution to this thread that will be missed.

Should they desire, I'd be happy to sent the deleted post to the user via PM, so that they may reword it and post it again when they get the chance.



I think the moderation team do an excellent job in general and feel that they are more than understanding of posts here. That feedback is also relayed, even if it's indirect and issues are brought to my attention when they deem it is required. That process already exists and my belief is that it works well for the most part. My PMs are always open if you feel that something requires escalation.

As for my name, well I've only ever had one complaint about it that I can remember but I've been considering changing it for a while. There you go.

(I'll get to my other accounts when I have time)

 

[Pixel]

This place used to be truly great, sigh.

Anyway, if you're just going to delete/censor any criticism that makes you slightly uncomfortable I don't see the point in this thread existing.

 

[captain lust]

Hey!

When the posts here create an environment where it isn't possible for criticism to be voiced calmly and respectfully, the thread can't serve its purpose! That's when I consider it necessary to remove posts.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

That's not strictly true.

Sorry, but that's rubbish. It is strictly true. There's nothing in that post that was abusive in any way.

On the whole, it's not written in a remotely constructive manner though and it's not a helpful contribution to this thread that will be missed.

Why? Why can a criticism not be phrased in an impolite manner and still be constructive?
That's not to say it should be, but simply deleting it for what amounts to "it had some swearwords and was antagonistic" is downright stupid.

Should they desire, I'd be happy to sent the deleted post to the user via PM, so that they may reword it and post it again when they get the chance.

This is a silly premise, though. You don't like the feedback, so you'll delete it and have them reword it till you like it? I'm sure that's not your intention, but that's the impression you give, especially when the deleting of such a post in the first place is already so nonsensical (and then threatening a user over it in PMs. Yes, very professional).

That process already exists and my belief is that it works well for the most part.

Evidently not, given you deleted the feedback you yourself acknowledged had perfectly valid points, for spurious reasons.

As for my name, well I've only ever had one complaint about it that I can remember but I've been considering changing it for a while. There you go.

(I'll get to my other accounts when I have time)

How dare you not follow your instructions promptly? Mute yourself immediately! 


Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Hey!

When the posts here create an environment where it isn't possible for criticism to be voiced calmly and respectfully, the thread can't serve its purpose! That's I consider it necessary to remove posts.

The criticism was actually voiced very calmly, and not really especially disrespectfully. Swearing a few times and being disappointed in your conduct does not make it disrespectful or uncalm.

 

[captain lust]

Well considering my PM was selectively quoted, which is treading close to a breach of forum rules in itself, here is the full version for transparency:

The forum obviously means a lot to you and I'm very happy for you to voice your opinion. If you feel like it's being ignored in the forum moderation feedback thread, let me personally extend you an invitation to send me a PM, and I'll be happy to escalate the issue.

As someone who has used the forum for many years, your opinion is absolutely valuable.

However, the way you've gone about expressing yourself in relation this issue is unacceptable and it will be dealt with. I'm a reasonable person and I don't think it's too much to ask that people, who want their say in running of the forums, act reasonably as well.

In the meantime, I'd recommend removing that post and changing your avatar ASAP.

Frank

Essentially all that does is reinforce what I already made clear in the thread.

If you want to call informing someone that breaking the rules will result in consequences a threat, I sort of agree with you. But it's no more of a threat than any system with rules and punishments inherently possesses. That constitutes a lengthy and irrelevant discussion though!

I won't reply to the rest of your post since I feel I have adequately covered everything else already.

Cheers

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

I won't reply to the rest of your post since I feel I have adequately covered everything else already.

I really don't. You haven't actually responded to my points at all. Which is odd, given that that seems to be what you're saying you're trying to do here? Deflecting seems to be the wrong course of action.

As for your pm, that does not, in fact, make you look any better. Rather the opposite. How disingenuous is it of you to say "if you feel you're being ignored in the feedback thread" while simultaneously threatening him to remove that feedback (which, yes, you claim is "rule-breaking", but you in no way have substantiated that claim)?

Did you really not think that through? Would you like to redact or rephrase that, because I really recommend doing that ASAP.

 

[Do not look here]

I feel like no one would really care if not the deletion. It wasn't first 'moderators are ruining mah forum! Down with censorship!' post and far from the worst ones, as others said. Some off-top regulars would come to the thread, there would be some nodding and everyone would return to their corners.

 

[Pixel]

Hey!

When the posts here create an environment where it isn't possible for criticism to be voiced calmly and respectfully, the thread can't serve its purpose! That's I consider it necessary to remove posts.

Would it not have been better to respond to the valid points you say Arc made in a respectful manner, ignore any perceived disrespect, and try to create that calm and respectful atmosphere? Rather than censor his post that said some things about you? How can any of us take your side if we don't know what the other person said? Now we only have your words to go on, after you have already deleted a post. You say it was disrespectful and uncalm, but now none of us can see the post to see how you made this conclusion. Deleting a post, if anything, seems counterproductive to a calm and respectful atmosphere.

The text-based medium is inherently going to lead to miscommunication, and besides I think it's part of a moderator's job to be the better man and respond to bull**** like a mature adult. It comes off as petty to delete/censor just because you can.

EDIT: I should say I don't entirely doubt Arc's post was not good conduct, as I know Arc well enough to know he was probably deliberately ****in' with you and he has zero investment in his TW account whatsoever, but it sets a bad precedent and if he made valid points then those points should be seen, not ignored and deleted.

 

[Evelyn]

A community manager out of touch with the community? Say it ain't so. I can see why you don't communicate with everyone much if this is what happens every time you try to exercise your authority, Lust. There were much better ways you could've gone about that, as already stated, compared to just scrubbing it from the face of the Earth because it dared to criticize you. Though I suppose I should expect the same fate for this post.

While we've got you here, can you explain what happened with the silent deletion of the sex thread? The threads that were used as literal porn dumps were understandable, but a thread for adults to talk about it away from everything else could hardly be seen as a bad thing when that level of conversation exists elsewhere outside of a vacuum anyways.

 

[Feragorn]

Why not just age-restrict the Off-Topic boards and let us fester like an abscess under a thin gauze of respectability?

 

[captain lust]

Well it seems like we have very different opinions regarding post deletion.

The forum rules state clearly:

Purchasing a licence does not confer any right of access to these boards, you have no right of free speech or anything of the sort.

I don't see a reason anyone should have to tolerate posts that are not respectful, and fail to comply to basic decency standards. If the post isn't fit for the forums, I don't see that it helps anyone for it to be left on the forums. The point of the rules is to improve the overall quality of posting - not just to punish those who fail to comply with them.

Having said that, I agree that a unified approach is possibly lacking in this regard. That's something we can definitely improve upon and I'm happy to take responsibility for any confusion caused!

When I say his post had valid points, I mean points that could be worth a response should they have been better phrased. That doesn't negate the above however and the points were not so important or useful that they demanded an urgent response. If you'd like them to be addressed, your best bet would be to send him a nice PM asking him to be more polite!

While we've got you here, can you explain what happened with the silent deletion of the sex thread? The threads that were used as literal porn dumps were understandable, but a thread for adults to talk about it away from everything else could hardly be seen as a bad thing when that level of conversation exists elsewhere outside of a vacuum anyways.

This is the section of the rules that I consider relevant:

No porn, links to porn sites or anything similar
The members of this board range from pre-teens to retirees. We don't want to offend or corrupt anyone. Again, breaking this rule can lead to a permanent ban without warning.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

I don't see a reason anyone should have to tolerate posts that are not respectful, and fail to comply to basic decency standards. If the post isn't fit for the forums, I don't see that it helps anyone for it to be left on the forums.

You have yet to demonstrate in any way that his post was out of line, therefore the specific excerpt you have quoted from the rules is entirely irrelevant.

and I'm happy to take responsibility for any confusion caused!

Evidently not, since you continue to deflect and ignore what people are saying, instead saying some silly rubbish like

When I say his post had valid points, I mean points that could be worth a response should they have been better phrased. That doesn't negate the above however and the points were not so important or useful that they demanded an urgent response.

Which is really just a creative way of wasting your reader's time and not actually telling anyone enything. Again, do you really think just deflecting and barring discussion, urging deletion of feedback and demanding that the conversations be held in private are in any way logical, being what is supposed to be the connection between the community and the company? Are you missing the context here or something?

And all that is without even getting into the fact that you yet again completely ignored any actual points anyone made. Are you just going to postpone the issue and then never bring it up again like usual, or what?

Again,  you have yet to demonstrate in any way whatsoever that the post was inapropriate. You've claimed that it was. Okay - show us how. Tell us why. Say something. This is the feedback that this thread is here for. This is your chance to do your job and fulfill the purpose of the thread. Englighten us.




And as for this:

This is the section of the rules that I consider relevant:

No porn, links to porn sites or anything similar
The members of this board range from pre-teens to retirees. We don't want to offend or corrupt anyone. Again, breaking this rule can lead to a permanent ban without warning.

That is not relevant to Evv's question in the slightest, the sex thread has nothing to do with porn, and conflating them is frankly idiotic. As for the very idea of corrupting someone... well, let's jsut say that it's not any better and leave it at that. This is a ridiculous excuse, and if you consider it relevant then you should perhaps try to read what the rule actually says again.

 

[Krik]

If you'd like them to be addressed, your best bet would be to send him a nice PM asking him to be more polite!

How is he supposed to do that with a mute? Or do we have to wait to see anything addressed?

 

[Evelyn]

frankly idiotic

Careful Monty, he might delete this post because this single line means it's not constructive!

 

[Pixel]

Well it seems like we have very different opinions regarding post deletion.

Not having a right to free speech is understandable, that's not the problem. In this case censorship isn't a problem because it violates free speech, it's a problem because this thread is explicitly meant for the explicit purpose of explicitly giving feedback to moderators. Removing that feedback is, pardon the 'impolite' word, retarded. And then you go and tell him "I'm sorry if your feedback was ignored, you are very valued. Now I'm going to make it so literally no one can see your ****, haha. Tough luck loser! That's what you get for DARING to defy me!"

I have now seen the post arc made that was deleted, and it seems to me that you are literally the only person that had a problem with it, based on what I have seen. It sure as hell did not deserve the reaction that it got from you. But what else is new? Yeah, I know, I don't have a red flag under my name, but you asked for feedback and you're getting it.

You know what posts make sense to delete or censor? Posts that link porn. Posts spewing archaic racial theory. Posts spewing hate speech. Go ahead, delete that stuff, I don't want to read it any more than anyone else does. But you know what I do want to read? What everyone else wants to read? Maybe, just maybe, we might want to read the criticism of our community manager, in the forum moderation feedback thread. Evidently, you didn't want us to.

Do you really not see the problem with deleting a post that gave you feedback because you didn't like the feedback? Do you not see what deleting a post did, and how it would have been worse than literally any other approach? It was literally all fun and games and derpy memes, and it would have stayed that way for 24 hours tops, but now it's caused a ****storm. Again. ****storm means more people come to the thread, the post (which arc saved btw) gets shown to more people. All you have done by deleting a post is create an uncalm atmosphere and make fewer people respect you. It takes a real genius to make a place less calm by trying to force it to calm down by senselessly deleting harmless posts.

If you'd like them to be addressed, your best bet would be to send him a nice PM asking him to be more polite!

No. That is not my best bet. My best bet should be that a moderator who is presumably an adult will behave like one and address points being made. No one in any world I've been born in legitimately believes that my best bet in this situation would be to go tell people they're being too mean and should respect you more. Respect is earned, bro.

Also, way to completely ignore Ev's question bro. Talking about sex =/= posting pornography. If you want to make it a separate rule, fine, but then you better go take care of all the sex talk that happens outside the sex thread now that it's gone.