Female armor variant.

[Puerkl8r]

First off, I'd like to say that I have almost no modding experience with M&B. I have limited experience with oblivion modding and using the construction set but that is about it.

So, I have been playing the mod 1257 A.D. and it adds a lot of re-textured armors, mostly surcoats based on the vanilla mesh. The problem is those re-textured variants added by the mod don't have the female variant when worn by females. I would like to try to correct this if I can as it doesn't seem like it would be too much work, just tedious and I can deal with tedium.

I tried Brfedit however that comes up with an error every time I try to launch it.

I got OpenBrf and found the mods armors that I would like to alter however I do not know how to go about finding the female mesh for said armor from native, and after that I don't know how to add the female mesh to the existing armor only when worn by females.

 

[iggorbb]

That is simple actually, just open openBRF, find mesh you like- for example mail_shirt, select it and than pres ctrl+alt hold it and than press c than v and than again v. That is how you add frames to armour. Do same thing with lods.
Note. Somehow coir_boulli, banded_armor, surcoat_over_mail, mail_with_surcoat, plate_armor and coat_of plates doesn't have female frames even if you create those- dunno how to fix it. Other armours will be fine.

 

[Puerkl8r]

Hmm, either I'm doing something wrong or the armors I wanted to do are the ones you listed, which is weird because those armors have female versions in native.

 

[iggorbb]

I saw feemale versions of armors but as separate meshes, in some OSP, think it is maws armors. Those I mentioned does not work with me even after I created frames  , other armours are better than I need .

EDIT: I changed almost all equipment in my personal mini mod and I didn't play native ever since I created it, so I don't really remember anymore, but yeah probably they got frames. I dunno how to fix it.

 

[Puerkl8r]

What's odd is, after looking at them in-game, at least a few of the surcoats over mail that were re-textured by the mod DO change to the female mesh. This makes me think that it may be based somehow on the mesh originally used for the re-texture similar to what was said in this thread: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,117146.msg2825000.html#msg2825000

However I don't know how to change that so that it's right. How can i change the mesh used while keeping the textures the same?

 

[iggorbb]

Now I am confused. I just checked my armours and found very strange thing. Some of mail_shirts had feemale frames, some didn't and I did all the same thing with them.

EDIT: OK. I got it. When you take some armor from OSP, take only texture from there and take original item from common res.

 

[Puerkl8r]

I don't fully understand what you mean, remember i'm new to this. Could you give me an example to walk me through the process?

I'm not even sure what you mean by OSP.

 

[iggorbb]

OSP is when people create some items and share it with comunity.

 

[Puerkl8r]

I think I figured it out.

 

[raziriel]

if you have time to explain, could you? i would like to add female variants to models i like, i thought you needed to do some 3d modelling and, like you said, it is tedious(though i can deal with it as well ).

 

[Puerkl8r]

No, i figured it out, but in doing so i also figured out that the surcoats from the mod i was talking about were not taken from vanilla or were modified versions, it's hard to tell in game but from the editor i could see it and that is why it didn't work. Only vanilla armors have female variants built in. Unless the modeler for the armor decided to make a female version, it wont work without modeling one yourself. I can barely change textures much less model something so I'll have to live with it.

 

[raziriel]

ah, that's what i thought, thanks anyway though, and good luck with your modding ventures 

 

[iggorbb]

No. Warband models also got feemale frames. You can check that in openBRF. There is option "time of frame" in middle row. By clicking on that arrows there you should see armour changes into feemale version on frame 3. What I meant, most of osp items have modified textures. When you want to use it do the next steps:
1. Copy texture you need from osp to texture folder
2. Find corresponding armour/mesh in common res- for example surcoat over mail, delete all other armours from that brf and go to "save as" and save as you wish.
3. Copy that brf you saved on desktop (or elsewhere)
4. Open your brf, from your mod resource folder, in which you want to import that armour
5. Select import/anything from brf
6. Rename your armor to what you want and assign texture and material to it (ofcourse you did or do import new material and check also import new texture, select what you need. After that you can import your specular and normal map textures)
Rest you probably know...

 

[Puerkl8r]

Yeah, thats the problem though, the custom meshes used dont have the time of frame box.

 

[iggorbb]

I told you to select mesh and hold ctrl+alt button on your keyboard and than press c v v and release buttons, that creates frames but they somehow dont work, dunno why. Best way is to import original meshes.

 

[Puerkl8r]

Yeah i tried that, but the textures don't map right to the original mesh.

 

[sphere]

I'm noob to meshing, but I'll just throw down my guesses in case they are of any help.. if not, just ignore.

from what I've seen, I'm guessing that the dev is actually using the frame in a way that it is not meant for (animations) but to store variants.
But in animations, the mesh has to be common (common topology + texture coordinates)..
It could be that to do a female armor this way, you cannot use a different model nor a different texture mapping, but must instead start from the original model and DEFORM (no changing of mesh topology) it to the female "curvature" (?). 

iow, the mesh must be topologically the same thing.

(just in case there are people who don't understand "cannot be changed topologically" part, it just means that you can't add/remove vertices or change the way the vertices connects to each other to form edges/faces.  You can only move the vertices around (with edges/faces intact) to defirm the whole mesh.

Just my guess...

 

[Puerkl8r]

I don't know why they do it this way, seems like it would be way easier to just have a separate mesh for the female version, for modding purposes anyway.

 

[sphere]

I don't know why they do it this way, seems like it would be way easier to just have a separate mesh for the female version, for modding purposes anyway.

it's "on-going-development".  Basically there is a lack of mechanisms in-game which allows/forbids equipment based on secondary traits/flags (the only active one seems to be skill "difficulty" based).  I guess in the future, it will be expanded. 

By my estimation, the cheapest+most flexible extension atm could be just to allow each item to have more than 1 difficulty skill (iirc, currently, each has only 1 max difficulty skill, which is hard-coded by item type).  Then we can "emulate" traits like being female or being "orc" or "undead" etc using hidden skills, and set the item to say require "skl_power_draw" 3 and "skl_female" 1 and "skl_orc" 1 for some bow that can only be used by a "female" "orc" which power draw at least 3. (The "female" "skill" wil have to be set once during game_start/update to all troops using the actual gender slot).  iow, if this single system is implemented, lots of "sub" variants can be emulated.  This is perhaps easier than trying to tackle gender/race/skills all at once (but of course, if it is possible, it will be even better..... for modders at least)

The any devs reading this: *wink* *wink* *hint* *hint* 
EDIT: just in case we get scalable troops next time, some pseudo skill like "size" could also be used to allow/disallow weapons meant for "races" of too different size. (e.g. a human, no matter how strong, will not be able to use giant's club that is 3 times his height, but a "titan" of similar size as giant will be able to.  This is a "relaxation" of "race"-limited where the concern is more of "size".  Of course, say somebody who wants a "magi-miraculously-blessed" weapon to be only usable by the intended race can still use to "race" pseudo skill)