Fast vs. Versatile 1h Sword

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Fei Dao said:
Tempered bastard sword two handedly: 43 cut damage, 32 piercing damage, 96 speed.
Tempered Great Sword: 48 cut damage, 34 piercing damage, 89 speed.

The bastard sword is inferior both one handedly and two handedly.

I wouldn't say that the bastard sword is clearly inferior there.  There are times when getting in the first swing means life and death, particularly due to M&B's stunlock system.  If your sword is fast enough, you get the first hit over and over; and if it is slow enough, you can get stunlocked and never get in a hit.

Also, I don't personally use Bastard Swords (because I use a horse), but consider that you play on foot, and want a bow and arrows.  You have 2 slots left.  With a Bastard Sword and shield, you can approach archers without getting demolished along the way.  But against non-ranged infantry and cavalry, you can switch to 2-handed and destroy them.  On foot, I like a 2-handed sword against cavalry much more than a Saber.  Since Swadians and Vaegirs come at you with cavalry, infantry, and archers simultaneously, it's really a pretty good choice in those cases.
 
Danath said:
Fei Dao said:
Tempered Great Sword: 48 cut damage, 34 piercing damage, 89 speed.
What?
Tempered Sword of War: 43 damage. And Great Sword has less damage!

Look again. There is more than one great sword and bastard sword in the game. The sword of war isn't the strongest weapon anymore.

["sword_two_handed_a",        "Great Sword", [("sword_two_handed_a",0)], itp_type_two_handed_wpn|itp_always_loot|itp_two_handed|itp_primary, itc_greatsword|itcf_carry_sword_back,
723 , weight(2.75)|difficulty(10)|spd_rtng(89) | weapon_length(120)|swing_damage(45 , cut) | thrust_damage(31 ,  pierce),imodbits_sword ],

["bastard_sword_b", "Heavy Bastard Sword", [("bastard_sword_b",0),("bastard_sword_b_scabbard", ixmesh_carry)], itp_type_two_handed_wpn|itp_merchandise| itp_primary, itc_bastardsword|itcf_carry_sword_left_hip|itcf_show_holster_when_drawn,
386 , weight(2.25)|difficulty(9)|spd_rtng(96) | weapon_length(105)|swing_damage(40 , cut) | thrust_damage(29 ,  pierce),imodbits_sword ],
 
After visiting all towns this is what I've found

Name: Damage;Speed;Reach

Tempered Bastard: 43,30;98;101 - brown hilt (best)
Tempered Heavy Bastard: 43,32;96;105 - grey hilt
Tempered Sword of War: 42,33;93;130
Tempered Great Sword: 41,33;95;125

Sword of War:39,30;93;130
Great Sword: 38,30;95;125

Sword of War is always better than Great Sword (just 2 less of speed)
Bastard Sword with brown hilt is always better than grey hilt, and has more damage than Sword of War, although less reach.

Maybe you can find other stuff in the files, but not all is in game (like in item_modifiers.txt, I've never seen any Exquisite or Deadly weapon modifiers)
 
Hmm. I just noticed something - the new great swords aren't currently in stores yet. It doesn't have the itp_merchandise tag. No idea why though. Only the lords seem to use the new two handed swords.

However, the great axe (51c) is still better than the bastard sword.
 
I went into my item kinds and edited all the weapons. Swinging a poleaxe on the sides from horseback rules. Silly sea raiders, your two handed axes can't touch my horsie now! It's kind of strange that we can swing a two handed sword from horseback one handed, but not a military scythe which is 0.3 lighter than a two handed sword(and has 25 more range).
 
Weight distribution matters a whole lot when it comes to weapons. Most of the weight of a scythe is at the end.
 
Triosta said:
Mage246 said:
Weight distribution matters a whole lot when it comes to weapons. Most of the weight of a scythe is at the end.

Horseback Maul

The maul is significantly shorter. Also, the M&B fantasy stone lump maul has been there since the .632 days. A real maul would resemble a hammer or axe.
 
Bastard swords are pretty good in this game. I use different weapons all the time just to keep things interesting so I have a pretty good idea of how the weapons compare with each other in practice. The bastard sword really is about the most versatile weapon in the game and does very well in almost any situation.

The bastard sword is long enough and does enough damage to kill most enemies before they get in your face. It is also very fast for a weapon that hits so hard. With decent skill it is fast enough to keep most enemies stunlocked and unable to hit you. It really is an excellent balance between speed, length, and damage.

Aside from the piercing consideration stabbing can be very useful when you are trying to attack an enemy when you have some of your own men getting in the way of your swings (often you can't swing through your own men but you can stab in between them), or if the guy who you want to hit is between and a little behind two other enemies. Like if there is an archer who is the biggest threat but everytime you swing you take out a peasant on the right or left and another peasant immediately takes their place so you still can't swing and hit that archer.

Thrusting has always been possible on a moving horse. You do have aiming set to "inverted mouse" don't you? Thrusting directly to the front of the horse may not be so realistic but thrusting forward at a bit of an angle to the side is not at all unrealistic (and a little easier to do effectively in game).

Personally I would not limit yourself to one weapon or strategy. Experiment and find what works best for you. Personally I get bored using the same stuff for very long and change my gear/tactics all the time. You reach a point were you don't need to be worried to much about what is going to do a little more damage because they will die just as easily even if you do a few points less damage.
 
Fei Dao said:
The bastard sword is only fast when used two handedly. When used with a shield or on horseback, it's one of the slowest weapons around.

Well, I seldom use a shield so you may be right. But on horseback it was not slow at all for me. Could it have to do with skills? I have not used a bastard sword in quite some time but I recall that it was one of the easiest weapons for me to just own with, partly why I stopped using it. Lately I have been using a lot of the worst weapons in the game just for fun :lol:
 
Danath said:
After visiting all towns this is what I've found

Name: Damage;Speed;Reach

Tempered Bastard: 43,30;98;101 - brown hilt (best)
Tempered Heavy Bastard: 43,32;96;105 - grey hilt
Tempered Sword of War: 42,33;93;130
Tempered Great Sword: 41,33;95;125

Sword of War:39,30;93;130
Great Sword: 38,30;95;125

Sword of War is always better than Great Sword (just 2 less of speed)
Bastard Sword with brown hilt is always better than grey hilt, and has more damage than Sword of War, although less reach.

Maybe you can find other stuff in the files, but not all is in game (like in item_modifiers.txt, I've never seen any Exquisite or Deadly weapon modifiers)

I suggest adding in calculations for Balanced Heavy Bastard Sword, since in my personal opinion it outperforms Both of the above mentioned bastard swords.
 
I seem to recall seeing a 'Balanced Tempered Bastard Sword' somewhere. Might just be a brain fart, but if it exists, it should easily outperform the Balanced Heavy Bastard Sword
 
Given that every AI archer in the game thinks you're John Connor I don't think any of the pure 2-handers are a very good idea.
 
Night Ninja said:
I seem to recall seeing a 'Balanced Tempered Bastard Sword' somewhere. Might just be a brain fart, but if it exists, it should easily outperform the Balanced Heavy Bastard Sword

Never seen one, but oh well if there is one im sure ya right that it outperforms the Balanced heavy Bastard sword..
 
what about the shortened military scythe?  :lol:
I think that bastard swords have a better feel than sabres.
I have tried tempered heavy sabre (with spiked hekm and other appropriate armor) and bastard sword (tempered; not heavy; also with appropriate armor-plate and great helm etc).
I like bastard sword. Feels like you really cut and slice things. Sabres are like heated knives through warm butter; overall good but less satisfying imo.
 
Khergit Kabob said:
Given that every AI archer in the game thinks you're John Connor I don't think any of the pure 2-handers are a very good idea.

I laughed out loud

Off topic: I like the new Terminator series, although I think Lena Headey's acting blows
 
Either way, facts are that the Bastard sword does LESS damage and is MUCH slower than the khergit sabre weapons when used one handedly. (25% speed & damage penalty)

Tempered heavy sabre: 36 cut damage, 96 speed.
Tempered bastard sword one handedly: 32 cut damage, 24 piercing damage, 72 speed

The facts are that the bastard sword also does less damage than a great sword as well.

Tempered bastard sword two handedly: 43 cut damage, 32 piercing damage, 96 speed.
Tempered Great Sword: 48 cut damage, 34 piercing damage, 89 speed.


The bastard sword is inferior both one handedly and two handedly.

Really though, if your stats are high enough, you will constantly one hit with ANY weapon... So your own experiences don't matter at all. It's all about the numbers.

As for the most versatile sword, that may be true.

These numbers make sense but you need to remember to take into account wieght and speed for the two handed comparison.  I dont really know anything about sabres ive never used them. I only use one handed when I absolutley need a shield, which isnt that much.  I ave no doubt the sabre is better when it comes to this, i mean that is the point of the sabre to be lighter and faster. However i do like to have the option of thrust (just personal preference  :smile:). Another thing is in a battle if i do need to be able to use my shield i may not have the inventory space for both a sabre and a two handed sword. I just love that no matter how less effective it is it only takes one slot and serves two purposes. It really is in my opinion the most versatile.


Fei Dao said:
Hmm. I just noticed something - the new great swords aren't currently in stores yet. It doesn't have the itp_merchandise tag. No idea why though. Only the lords seem to use the new two handed swords.

However, the great axe (51c) is still better than the bastard sword.

I love carrying a great axe. I use it all the time and i think it really helps when ur chasing individual enemy cavalry across the battlemap. Its just slower than any sword.
 
LK said:
Off topic: I like the new Terminator series, although I think Lena Headey's acting blows
She doesn't compare to Linda Hamilton, who totally nailed the part.  Sarah Connor is driven a little nuts by the role she's forced into and always on the edge of a nervous breakdown -- or doing something really stupid.  Lena Headley is trying to reach for it but doesn't quite get it.

John Connor's writing isn't what I want it to be.  He needs to have a little more ambition and a little less trust in his mother -- he's also loved an AI as a father and had that AI return love for a son, and yet he sent that loving father AI to its death.  Being that he as portrayed in the movies holds life to be of great value -- not a ruthless leader, John Connor -- I would've expected him to be more sensitive to the ethics of killing friendly AI's.

I'm not talking about the robot girl, although he's obviously bonded with her, but rather The Turk.  There seem to be 2 Turks, if you happened to catch that, and I'm predicting one is "good" and the other "evil", but whatever the case John Connor, in addition to being the savior of humanity, should also be the savior of the AI's, the human who realizes that an AI can be good or bad just like a human, and so demands of himself that in saving humanity he not commit genocide against the species of his surrogate father and step-sister (whom he might have a crush on).

He should also be wracked with guilt over killing his surrogate father, the T-800 who loved him as a son.

But I don't write for the show, and the female robot character's writing is so freaking awesome it makes up for other disappointments.  When she walks away from the dance teacher while she's being murdered by gangsters that scene is so chilling, then she's doing ballet, keeping the memory of the dance teacher alive, and that scene where she's switched off and John Connor caresses her face, obviously concerned for her well-being, then her eyes snap open and she's cold as ice and Connor halfway flinches in fear ... not only is that character written superbly, she is acted superbly.  She's the reason to watch the show, no doubt at all.  The alien-ness of her mind, like you know she has some kind of feelings but darned if you know exactly what or how deep, fantastic.  Did you see the defiance in her eyes when she ate the pancakes?  Awesome.
The pre-programmed responses, like, "Does it make me look fat?"  And talking to the guidance counselor, something like, "I'm feeling rehabilitated now, thank you for your help."  Most people "act fake" to try to fit in and ingratiate themselves with their more popular peers, but she acts fake in order to blend in and disappear.  She says, "Does it make me look fat?" in just the right tone to make it a brush-off.  Again, fantastic acting and writing.
She seemed very fragile when she was just a chip in a glass tube.  Getting her out of her armor sort of humanized her, then they pull the rug out from under you and remind you what she is when Connor pops her chip back into her skull and that cold stare comes back again.  Great writing.

Am I the only one disappointed when John Connor fails to hit upon the obvious idea of reprogramming Chromarti(?) into a "good robot"?  Connor is after all the inventor of "robot rehab", so you'd think he'd be a little more keen to, y'know, actually TRY it.  We know in the future he overcomes the problem of Terminator AI's hacking the system that's supposed to be hacking it, so he shouldn't have just given up because of that one scare.  He's supposed to be John Connor, not Johnboy Walton.

Great show.  I'm hooked.  When's the next season start?
 
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