Early Access as defined by Tale Worlds

[Bob Gnarly]

Early Access Game
Get instant access and start playing; get involved with this game as it develops.
Note: This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development. Learn more


So deceiving...
/s

 

[ste636]

I actually consider the current rate of development quite good. The programmers and actual game makers are doing a good job. I haven't played in months but I still read the release notes and checking in. I understand that current code refactor is underway, which takes time.

but..the heads of Tale Worlds and the Managers who decided on this "early access". Tale Worlds heads sold us an incomplete story of the state of Bannerlord AND charged premium prices for an alpha stage game what is AT LEAST 2 years away from being a gold status product.


Notice how in the "early access" notes as posted by Tale Worlds heads Tale Worlds states that:

1. Game is about 1 year away from being complete.
2. Missing features include:
--broken quests
--Towns are not unique
--Voices overs are not complete
--Localizations are not complet


None of the above are game breaking things IMO..and along with the "1 year away", thus the game sounds mostly feature complete with just some minor contents missing. Those missing features posted on Steam by Tale Worlds is missing huge pieces of the game, no way in heck that is all the missing features along with beta testing and balancing going to be done any where close to 1 year.

Take also into account the premium price $$ being asked for Bannerlord AND the above "missing features" I was under the impression when purchasing Bannerlord that Bannerlord was nearing beta stage or already in beta stage.

The community and customers are being let down is by the heads of Tale World and managers...NOT by the programmers/artists/testers/writers and actual game makers.

Shame on you heads of Tale Worlds. If Tale Worlds had been more honest in the "Early Access notes" as posted on Steam AND had a price $ to reflect the nature of Bannerlord being more in the middle of alpha stage and no where near beta stage.

I am changing my Steam review to negative because took me quite some time to realize how far Bannerlord is from being complete. Note, I played Bannerlord for about 175ish hours, so I certainly am well understanding of the missing content currently in Bannerlord.


TaleWorlds, Try a little more honesty with customers in the future.

Folks, if you are fed up with TaleWorlds heads as I am, post negative reviews on Steam. Negative reviews is the best way to make our voice heard.

Feel bad for the game makers(programmers, artists, testers, writers) of Bannerlord, for your managers and heads of Tale Worlds are hurting this game and by association your reputation.

I totally agree with you, I have been trying to say the same for ages, being eaten alive by fanbois)

I am not sure about the developers (I read they use students a lot), but for sure the art guys are extremely talented, they did an amazing job, pity for the rest.

It is also clear to me that in TW they have a serious management issue, it seems to me they are running around in circles and following random priorities.

I could also put money down that they pushed the game out in this state due to pressures from investors, a classic nowadays.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord on Steam

A strategy/action RPG. Create a character, engage in diplomacy, craft, trade and conquer new lands in a vast medieval sandbox. Raise armies to lead into battle and command and fight alongside your troops in massive real-time battles using a deep but intuitive skill-based combat system.

store.steampowered.com

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“While we do not have a set date for a full release at this moment in time, we expect that the game will be in early access for around a year. Our focus is on ensuring that the game is fun and enjoyable rather than imposing a deadline that might have a negative impact on the final product.”


--- Tale Worlds has shown over the 3 months since Early Access release that Bannerlord is FAR from finished and will be in Early Access far beyond 1 year at the current rate of development.

Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access?
“There is no plan to change pricing after early access.”

--From searching Steam, I can find no other games at this price cost of Bannerlord in early access. Tale Worlds is charging a premium Cost$ for a game that is multi-years away from being complete and is lying to customers by:

1. Not accurately letting customers know the game is alpha stage
2. Not accurately projecting a time line to completion



In closing, I am fine with Bannerlord taking multi-years to complete. Am not fine with Tale Worlds not letting customers know the game is still Alpha stage, not letting customers know the true time lines to completion and most importantly charging premium cost$ for an alpha stage game.






--

We already had a huge discussion on this and you got resoundingly proved wrong after you went on a huge rant about EA being a legal protection that the game was almost complete. So you dodge that thread and make a whole new thread slightly rewording the same statement...

If you want your money back go speak to Marda - they have been very open about the idea of offering refunds... Stop remaking this same bull**** thread over and over...

Bannerlord is not "early access", Bannerlord game is "alpha". Tale Worlds clearly used this lie about "early access" to fool people into thinking this Bannerlord is somewhat complete so Tale Worlds could charge full price $ for a game that is "almost complete".

It took literally 10 seconds to prove you wrong. If you are truly not a troll - go make a refund request and be done with it.

 

[Callum]

I think we have been more than honest and up front about how far along the game was before we released in Early Access. We actively told people not to buy the game just yet if they were expecting a complete experience at this stage, and that is something that we would still suggest to people now.

Since launch we have released numerous updates and fixes that have addresses performance and stability issues and enhanced game content. However, we still have a long way to go and a lot of work to do before that 1.0 release, make no mistake about that.

 

[sanalaismine]

Yes, very good response and thanks for that.

If someone wants to play the BL as soon as possible against all EA period, then by all means they can do it. I bought the game beacuse, I didn't want to wait. It was clear that game would be in an incomplete state and EAs last long these days. They even said that there won't be any change in pricing so there was completely no incentive to buy it other than you're being a fan of the game and can't wait to play it.

Yes, it's incomplete. Yes, it has a big potential not yet turned into kinetic energy. And yes, I want it to have lots of depth and fun gameplay as much as the next guy. But this drama which is going on here for some time, is just too much imho.

 

[Talbrys]

I think we have been more than honest and up front about how far along the game was before we released in Early Access. We actively told people not to buy the game just yet if they were expecting a complete experience at this stage, and that is something that we would still suggest to people now.

Since launch we have released numerous updates and fixes that have addresses performance and stability issues and enhanced game content. However, we still have a long way to go and a lot of work to do before that 1.0 release, make no mistake about that.

Nothing you've said here is incorrect. There's just a vocal minority who impulse bought it without reading the disclaimers and don't want to take responsibility for their lack of control. I also think there is a small community of trolls trying to keep the flames fanned. I knew what I was buying and am quite happy with the purchase I made and the work that has been done so far.

 

[khuzait haircut]

We actively told people not to buy the game just yet if they were expecting a complete experience at this stage, and that is something that we would still suggest to people now.

So you advertise the game with sales but don't want them to buy it? Come on

 

[Talbrys]

So you advertise the game with sales but don't want them to buy it? Come on

Chalk another one up to inability to read.

 

[sanalaismine]

Prototypical conditional sentences in English are those of the form "If X, then Y". The clause X is referred to as the antecedent or protasis, while the clause Y is known as the consequent or apodosis. Such sentences generally convey that X being true would lead to Y being true.

Wikipedia

 

[Senko]

Many people just couldn't wait anymore after waiting for 8 years. I just wanted to play it in my lifetime no matter what state the game was in, so i bought it the second it released :p

Also, Is this your first Early Access game? Just assume it will be a long road, especially after it took them 8 years for Bannerlord ;3

DayZ was almost 5 years in in Early Access.

7 Days to Die, 7 years Early Access, still in Alpha

Stranded Deep, 5 years Early Access - still in Alpha

Project Zomboid, 7 Years Early Access - cars have been added, for npcs it prob take another few years :p

 

[adrakken]

Then ask for a refund and go away.

 

[Jakob Storm]

 

[MostBlunted]

Many people just couldn't wait anymore after waiting for 8 years. I just wanted to play it in my lifetime no matter what state the game was in, so i bought it the second it released :p

Also, Is this your first Early Access game? Just assume it will be a long road, especially after it took them 8 years for Bannerlord ;3

DayZ was almost 5 years in in Early Access.

7 Days to Die, 7 years Early Access, still in Alpha

Stranded Deep, 5 years Early Access - still in Alpha

Project Zomboid, 7 Years Early Access - cars have been added, for npcs it prob take another few years :p

It´s easy to find the bad EA example games (also Project Zomboid isn´t bad, it´s pretty good even without NPCs and developed by a "real" small indie company, it´s also a "bit" cheaper.

DayZ btw is just dead and no one should by it today. If you already bought it, well you´re screwed. I can´t say anything about the other two games.

We talk about Bannerlord in 2-3 years when it´s still in EA though .

We can also talk about the good examples like Factorio (still EA but plays like a final release) or Rimworld. It´s not about the years it took those games to leave EA (or still didn´t in case of Factorio), it´s about what they claimed in their EA description.

It´s fine if you believe that Bannerlord will be released in 1-2 years, I don´t think so with this slow progess and the price tag makes a huuuuuuge difference.

 

[sanalaismine]

It´s easy to find the bad EA example games (also Project Zomboid isn´t bad, it´s pretty good even without NPCs and developed by a "real" small indie company, it´s also a "bit" cheaper.

There are no bad and good EAs. It's just the same practice. There is LESS content compared to the final product in all of them. For some games you don't care, for some games you care beacause of your own expectations. In BL the ground work is in place, OFC you have the right to find it insufficient but it's what it is. Either way you wait. Only meaningful arguement here is pricing but then again you choosed to buy it against enough disclaimers on being EA.

My idea, it's good for its EA state, certainly lacking juicy features we all expect to come. Only necessary thing to do is waiting. If they announce it's finished and if it turns out to be bad then we can complain like an old granpa.

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

I just realised how high my expectations were for the ea. At its curren't state, the game is still far away from what I expected to get.. Thats what 8 years of waiting and reading very promising blogs does to you.

 

[Talbrys]

There are no bad and good EAs. It's just the same practice. There is LESS content compared to the final product in all of them. For some games you don't care, for some games you care beacause of your own expectations. In BL the ground work is in place, OFC you have the right to find it insufficient but it's what it is. Either way you wait. Only meaningful arguement here is pricing but then again you choosed to buy it against enough disclaimers on being EA.

My idea, it's good for its EA state, certainly lacking juicy features we all expect to come. Only necessary thing to do is waiting. If they announce it's finished and if it turns out to be bad then we can complain like an old granpa.

Tbh the pricing isn't even really an argument as you are still buying the full product, it just isn't delivered until later down the line. In some ways it's actually a better deal to buy it now so you can play a part in it's creation over those who only buy it when it's done.

 

[markp27]

Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord on Steam

A strategy/action RPG. Create a character, engage in diplomacy, craft, trade and conquer new lands in a vast medieval sandbox. Raise armies to lead into battle and command and fight alongside your troops in massive real-time battles using a deep but intuitive skill-based combat system.

store.steampowered.com

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“While we do not have a set date for a full release at this moment in time, we expect that the game will be in early access for around a year. Our focus is on ensuring that the game is fun and enjoyable rather than imposing a deadline that might have a negative impact on the final product.”

Both didn´t claim that they´ll be finished in around a year. Both were developed by small indie companies. Both weren´t sold for full price, not even close to full price.

Nor did TW state that the game will be ready in a year, they merely said what they expect to happen. For anyone who looks at release dates and expects the date not to have setbacks is not really paying attention to the gaming market.

 

[sanalaismine]

Tbh the pricing isn't even really an argument as you are still buying the full product, it just isn't delivered until later down the line. In some ways it's actually a better deal to buy it now so you can play a part in it's creation over those who only buy it when it's done.

Yea but not so simple. EA price might be cheaper beacuse people choose to help you financially by buying an unfinished product. Most of EA practices work that way. After game is complete they crank up the price for new buyers.

I bought it knowing all about this, so no probs for me but that way they would have eased the expectations and hype. In return they would have get much less complaints along with much less money. I guess with a game with this big fanbase and demand, they were right to choose this pricing practice. They didn't feel the need of any discount incentives to sell the most anticipated game which reflects their success.

 

[MostBlunted]

There are no bad and good EAs. It's just the same practice.

Sure there are, there are a lot of abonded EA games on Steam which are not really playable, I wouldn´t call them good EA games.
You can still buy some of them, I did... unfortnatley .

Also there are very good EA games on Steam like Project Zomboid, it will take 1-3 years untils it really final (with NPCs and factions and stuff like this). But if you buy it today and like the genre, you´ll have a ton of fun. It´s totally playable even without those features. Also has dedicated MP servers, modding and everything you need to have fun.

Another good example EA example would be Satisfactory. And another bad one would be DayZ.

They didn't feel the need of any discount incentives to sell the most anticipated game which reflects their success.

Not 100% true, there was a 20% discount on release IF you already owned any game of them. But if you bought it like 2 weeks after EA release and didn´t own any of their games you paid 49,99€ and now there is another sale for the 20% discount. And after all those awesome reviews on Steam, there might be a "few" players who bought it 2+ weeks after release without owning one of their games for 49,99€.

Of course, this is a smart move from TW. Get in the hardcore fanboys (like me) for a discount on release, let them give your game good reviews like "it´s finally harvesting season" after 1-10 hours playtime (like me, because the early game is good), get in some new players for 49,99€, lower the price again (still with awesome reviews) and get in more money. Will go on when the sale stops tomorrow as long as those reviews are good. And they won´t change anytime soon.

From a salesman perspective, you can´t do better than that. I bet, the next 20%+ discount will be in like 3-4 weeks.

So nope, not true at all.

 

[fragtzack]

If TaleWorlds had left their Early Access statement at JUST the first two paragraphs AND charged a reasonable price for an alpha stage game, all would be fine. But TaleWorlds didn't, TaleWorlds went to extreme lengths to say how great the game currently is so they can charge a premium price. The game is currently not finished enough to be enjoyable , rather the current game is extremely frustrating. The current game is a largely a skeleton framework with partial flesh out of the pieces. Only with modding is the game possible to be enjoyed, and playing the mod shuffle game is extremely frustrating.

I play almost all the other Early Access games mentioned in this thread, not a single one of those other games tries to mislead customers nor do any of those other games try to charge premium price$ for an alpha stage game that at least 3-4 years from being finished to a gold state.

The first 2 paragraphs from TaleWorlds is where TaleWorlds should have stopped their Early Access statement:
----------------------
Why Early Access?
“Early access is something that we are very familiar with: our first title, Mount & Blade, helped to pioneer this method of release back in 2005. By working alongside our community we were able to deliver a unique gaming experience that players still enjoy to this day. These past experiences have taught us that it is vital to bring players in to help us iron out any issues and refine the game by utilizing feedback to bring it to the level that both our community and we expect.

"We are hoping to run a productive and efficient early access for M&B Bannerlord as well. However, due to the nature and scale of game that we have envisioned, there may be various problems or missing features and content during the course of early access."
--------------------------------------------

The rest after the first 2 paragraph is where TaleWolds starts to mislead people. Note, the last sentence of the second paragraph was omitted. As that sentence is where TaleWorlds is going wrong. That bold sentence is all TaleWorlds needed to say, but NO..TaleWorlds went on at length to explain how the current game is playable and by doing so (along with the 1 year statement) are implying the game is close to be finished.

Just fricking say "There is missing content and bugs". Its not too late TaleWorlds, go back and remove all that other crap and stop misleading new customers.

Pretty sure that 90% of the folks that bought into early access Bannerlord only did so because of playing the previous M&B titles and were itching for another version. TaleWorlds took advantage of this fan base of the previous games by charging too much $ for a game that many years away from being gold status. That is called not appreciating your customers.


TaleWorlds states they are shooting for 1 year, while no one expects 1 year to be accurate...There needs to be ball park...

So let us judge this ball park figure of 1 year by the current progress.

3.5 months have went by since release.


How much missing content has been filled in those 3.5 months?

Maybe 1 item, half way fleshed out with more work to go.

Fact is, the majority of the current game development is big fixing.


This game is 3-4 years away from getting all the missing content in and bug squashing and balancing. Highly doubt all the content mentioned and currently missing will ever get added in because the funding will dry up OR they will release paid DLC to include the content missing... content that was supposed to be part of the original game.

Shame on you TaleWorlds. Most of us are not new to the Early Access world, I certainly am not. The other early access games I play do not mislead people with early access statements implying the game is close to finished nor they charge outrageous price for a no where close to be finished game.