The most common date for the beginning of the Renaissance is usually the fall of Constantinople in 1453. That's where the "era" starts. Whether things are already underway is immaterial to that, especially since in different parts of europe renaissance came at sometimes very different times.
-
If you are reporting a bug, please head over to our Technical Support section for Bannerlord.
Does anyone think that Vlandia is way too fancy in the game?
- Thread starter quietresolve
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
vlandia is basically swadia yes? except they dont have plate armor.
What's important to remember is that, by the game's own lore, the Vlandians spent many years serving as auxiliaries to the Empire. This explains why they have a troop tree that is very similar to that of the Empire line, but also why they have attained certain technological innovations as it concerns warfare. In the game, both the Vlandians and Imperials have capes, crossbows and segmented armor whereas all the other faction primarily wear lamellar or chain mail (no one else has crossbows or capes).
However, this cultural exchange seems to have stopped at the battlefield. The Vlandian Towns are far less established than Imperial towns, save for Galend which I can only imagine was once the imperial capital of now Vlandian lands (formerly Baravenos) before its capture by the first Vlandian King, Osrac Iron-arm.
So Imperials still retain their affinity for engineering and maintaining large urban centers, whereas Vlandians have yet to establish a system for producing such learned individuals. I must underline that this does not make the Vlandians dumb or the Imperials smart, but rather it reflects priorities. The amount of work and training needed to produce and maintain individuals as learned and capable as engineers and architects in ancient time was actually equitable to that needed to produce and maintain knights or skilled household warriors. The Calradian Empire, as was the case with the Romans of our world, simply had a longstanding foundation and the resources needed for producing learned individuals even as they maintained their defenses. In a period of tumult, as there is greater need for warriors, there will be less emphasis on other fields. So in the present and until they become modern Swadia, the Vlandians will focus on perfecting their capacity for war - so that by Mount and Blade Warband we have the famed Swadian Knights and Swadian Towns that don't come close to matching the glory of the now ruined Imperial Cities of present Bannerlord.
However, this cultural exchange seems to have stopped at the battlefield. The Vlandian Towns are far less established than Imperial towns, save for Galend which I can only imagine was once the imperial capital of now Vlandian lands (formerly Baravenos) before its capture by the first Vlandian King, Osrac Iron-arm.
So Imperials still retain their affinity for engineering and maintaining large urban centers, whereas Vlandians have yet to establish a system for producing such learned individuals. I must underline that this does not make the Vlandians dumb or the Imperials smart, but rather it reflects priorities. The amount of work and training needed to produce and maintain individuals as learned and capable as engineers and architects in ancient time was actually equitable to that needed to produce and maintain knights or skilled household warriors. The Calradian Empire, as was the case with the Romans of our world, simply had a longstanding foundation and the resources needed for producing learned individuals even as they maintained their defenses. In a period of tumult, as there is greater need for warriors, there will be less emphasis on other fields. So in the present and until they become modern Swadia, the Vlandians will focus on perfecting their capacity for war - so that by Mount and Blade Warband we have the famed Swadian Knights and Swadian Towns that don't come close to matching the glory of the now ruined Imperial Cities of present Bannerlord.
Last edited:
You are wrong, though.
Is it because the Calridic Empire is largely based on the Eastern Roman Empire which was predominantly Greek for much of its history or because the Khuzaits aren't directly based on the Mongols and instead draw from them as well as various other Steppe Tribes and Cultures such as the Huns, Tartars and Uyghurs?
Or because you don't think the Vlandians look ok?
Because more than ERE, they are what we would be compelled to call the Byzantines. You are right about the Khuzaits and about me not liking the Vlandians.
Every faction except the Bats fit into a somewhat defined time period in real history, except the Vlandians who seem to be time travelers from the future.
They never stopped calling themselves "Roman," so calling them the Eastern Roman Empire is actually more accurate than calling them the Byzantine Empire (a name they never used). They themselves would probably prefer to be called just "The Roman Empire." But I refer to them by the term "Eastern Roman" to encapsulate their later developments in armor and culture long since the fall of the actual city of Rome in the West (barring subsequent recapture and later loss by the rulers of Constantinople).
Battanians are an odd bunch - like the devs went too far in giving them their own "down to earth Celtic" vibe. I was genuinely shocked when I walked into a Battanian Keep at Marunath for the first time and saw that it was as much cave as structure. And walking around the town you see a place that is a mangled mess of mud and ruins. Historical accounts of Celtic settlements actually indicate relatively sophisticated towns, some of which might have rivaled roman cities in time if they weren't sacked and destroyed by Rome. I just can't imagine a basis for how Battanian Settlements are currently depicted.
The Vlandians are not out there as weapons & armors go, especially not when you consider Imperial influence.
Last edited:
I'm aware of that. That's why I said they are what WE would be compelled to call byzantines. The point being that it's not unusual to have "romans" and "mongols" at the same time, which means it is not an excuse to have futuristic Vlandians.
Regarding battanians, I think the idea is that they are the remnants of a once great celtic inspired nation that survived thanks to its isolation, but became decadent because of it. I still think they are annoying forest monkeys who only serve to paint imperial and sturgian shieldwalls red (which ,according to a battanian companion in game, they do a lot)
How does the Vlandian managed to build those settlements that looks way better than the empire while serving as their "auxiliaries" were beyond me. In my opinion their troops and settlements looks way better and advanced in almost every way.
I really rather Vlandia being something resembles the noman conquerer, having noman armor and troop lines, and are the conquerer from another continent instead of "auxiliaries" of the empire. Should be more consistent this way
Eras are guidelines, not hard facts. The Rennaissance refers to an artistic and cultural movement as well, and one that did not spread uniformly outside of Italy. It's not really a period and most historians would tell you that the period is properly referred to as the early modern period, though there are quibbles in that.
Don't get your head locked into hard dates for socio-cultural movements.
I mean, similar to how the goths took over all of Italy, much of gaul, and all of hispania? This is how most conquests happened in the fall of the western empire. They were troops invited in, and granted rulership of parts of the empire. Theoderic's conquest of Italy was sanctioned by the Roman emperor at the time. And indeed Theoderic took Italy From Oedecar (who famously sacked Rome), who himself was a foreign military commander that ruled nominally at the behest of the eastern emperor, but was in reality independent and hostile to the emperor in constantinople (Who, ironically, was a member of ANOTHER border people and considered a barbarian by the ethnically greek population of Constantinople. Zeno was an Isaurian. There was a brief civil war on his death where his family and presumed successors were thrown out of Constaninople. Though he was not the last Isaurian on the throne).
These were exactly my thoughts, but I highly doubt that the devs are going to change something about it. Maybe mods in the future
HalfMetalJacket
Knight
There's a Norman mod already.These were exactly my thoughts, but I highly doubt that the devs are going to change something about it. Maybe mods in the future
The Vlandians, especially the high tier troops, do seem a little bit out of place. The heavy armor and helmets, look more akin to 12th century styles rather than the Norman early 11th century style. If such armor needs to be in the game, it would make more sense to have it be reserved for nobles only, e.g. the plated coat. (the one with the lion)
Another problem is that at this point high tier armor is very much limited in variety, with each culture having around 2 top tier armor designs. That gives high tier troops a sense of uniformity, giving in turn a sense of fanciness (as all sergeants wear a nice red silk cloak).
High tier tier troops (not the elite troops), particularly sergeants, pikemen and champions, should resort to more basic equipment. A full suit of mail was in fact very valuable, so it would be totally sufficient for a top tier infantry troop. Full-face helmets should also be reserved for knights and nobles.
The same could be said for the Empire though. Of course cataphracts can wear the full lamellar suit (however, again, a full set of chainmail supplemented with gambesons was already extremely valuable).
But does every top tier legionary and archer have to wear the same suit of armor and helmet?
The current use of top quality armor is inflationary.
IMO the diversity of armor should be increased, meaning for each tier there are more styles and variants available. Furthermore the cultural top tier armors (Empire lamellar, Vlandia plate etc) should be reserved for nobles and the elite units.
Another problem is that at this point high tier armor is very much limited in variety, with each culture having around 2 top tier armor designs. That gives high tier troops a sense of uniformity, giving in turn a sense of fanciness (as all sergeants wear a nice red silk cloak).
High tier tier troops (not the elite troops), particularly sergeants, pikemen and champions, should resort to more basic equipment. A full suit of mail was in fact very valuable, so it would be totally sufficient for a top tier infantry troop. Full-face helmets should also be reserved for knights and nobles.
The same could be said for the Empire though. Of course cataphracts can wear the full lamellar suit (however, again, a full set of chainmail supplemented with gambesons was already extremely valuable).
But does every top tier legionary and archer have to wear the same suit of armor and helmet?
The current use of top quality armor is inflationary.
IMO the diversity of armor should be increased, meaning for each tier there are more styles and variants available. Furthermore the cultural top tier armors (Empire lamellar, Vlandia plate etc) should be reserved for nobles and the elite units.
The thing that's really crazy is how on earth does the cataphract all wearing the top tier armor that even the player might not ever have the access to? Not to mention cataphracts were not that difficult to come by. In my opinion if cataphracts were meant to be that strong, they should be off limit to player and normal lords, and only powerful kings such as Rhagaea could keep a retinue of say 30 cataphracts, because the Emperor of Calradia should have some sort of "legacy"
On that note, item prices are unbalanced compared to the rest of the economy. I have so much loot that I don't even bother trying to sell it anymore. No town can afford me clicking "sell all" and selecting a few items for every town is just too tedious. Rags are worth more than the tax income of a town or upgrading elite units with all the gear they need. I think the price of upgrading units should be the cost difference between their current gear and the gear of the unit they are upgrading to. Lower item prices accordingly to not make it cost 100k to upgrade a single unit. With all the inflated item prices, denars are looking more and more like the medieval version of Zimbabwe dollars. However, then you look at tax income and the price of fielding an army and denars starts looking more like the medieval version of Kuwaiti dinar. I'd rather see the latter, so lets lower item prices.
To balance, just lower monetary gain from arena and quests as well. You still wouldn't be able to afford a mail with lamellar armor from just grinding in the arena but it should at least be more affordable than fielding several troops wearing that same armor.
Wrong. It had "started" in the early 14th century already, well, "officially" at least. Things were "underway" before the 1300s. You could argue that it accelerated greatly after the 14th century and only continued to accelerate after that, but that's most likely regardless of any conquest of any city.
If only they had focused on the 11th century Norman part. I could just go in and edit the Vlandians into complete 11th century Norman style but they would be at a disadvantage so I'd have to edit every other faction as well then, since everyone has transitional armor in this game. I've been thinking of doing exactly this and make mail the highest tier armor.
Agreed, these "provincials" also have more futuristic helmets than the Empire, along weapons like voulges and pikes that marked the decline of the spear+shield setup that had dominated infantry melee combat in our own time. If their pikemen actually used pikes (instead of 2.5M spears they insist on calling pikes) and thrust-only polearms weren't broken by horrible collision and nerfed damage models in this game, one would wonder how the Vlandians haven't swept through the Empire yet.
Similar threads
