Do you follow orders in an army battle?

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I find army versus army battles, with the current scenes, to be undoable. Primarily for two reasons:

1. The scenes are too small so it just becomes one big crowd. The battle limiter also means magical teleporting troops.

2. The orders are impossible to follow. One moment I get told to charge charge charge! The next I'm told to go for the center, or the horse archers, or what have you. Then every now and then I'm told to pull back. How do you rely this order to your own formation? Do you just use the follow command?
 
I just realized I've never joined another lords army. Not even once. I have no idea if it can effect anything if you fallow orders not. I'd guess it doesn't.
I absolutely agree though that the maps are too small for very large battles, I feel more then 200 VRS 200 or so it's just isn't very good.
I also feel the behavior of troops and the overall combat UI just doesn't work well with trying to position and order many large groups. Honestly more then 100 it start to feel more clunky and finicky about if the troops actual end up where you want them doing what you wanted.
It's unfortunate "all armies all the time" got into the game when the UI and maps all seem to be more geared to warband style fights of smaller forces.
 
Not surprised this hasn't been fixed yet. It seemed like it would be a pretty significant part of the middle game, but the generals' orders and AI are completely all over the place and, as has been said, quite frankly, impossible. It's like the heads of each army all have the most severe cases of ADHD known to mankind and along with that, they're panicking in the midst of battle. It's an absolute chore to try to grind through these. I did try to follow the orders when I played, usually alternating between follow and charge (mostly follow), but eventually, I just gave up on following orders and did what seemed most intelligent in that particular moment.
 
Not surprised this hasn't been fixed yet. It seemed like it would be a pretty significant part of the middle game, but the generals' orders and AI are completely all over the place and, as has been said, quite frankly, impossible. It's like the heads of each army all have the most severe cases of ADHD known to mankind and along with that, they're panicking in the midst of battle. It's an absolute chore to try to grind through these. I did try to follow the orders when I played, usually alternating between follow and charge (mostly follow), but eventually, I just gave up on following orders and did what seemed most intelligent in that particular moment.
You know what's weird? How is my character getting the orders? By text message? That's another thing that really breaks immersion.
 
You know what's weird? How is my character getting the orders? By text message? That's another thing that really breaks immersion.
Personally, I think there's a host of things that are immersion-breaking and they take me out of the experience. It feels less like an adventure and conquest and more like an arcade game. It would be kinda cool if you heard the orders along with the text, heard them as a fainter echo when farther away, and heard them more clearly with less yell when you're very close to the general.
 

flarebright

Recruit
Different horn (other musical instrument) sounds were used for different orders. It's how it was done historically. Also signal flags were used as well.
 
Different horn (other musical instrument) sounds were used for different orders. It's how it was done historically. Also signal flags were used as well.
That doesn't explain why the orders in the game are materialized as if the commander is speaking to you. You are correct about horns, musical instruments, and signal flags being used for orders, but they were far from the only methods, even in the most organized pre-modern armies such as the Romans, you need to have direct human communication in order to coordinate something so complicated. In smaller skirmishes, shouting orders was probably sufficient in many situations, but commanders speaking to each other, sending runners or riders in larger battles, is obviously necessary. You can't really replicate that in this game though. I'd rather have the orders that appear on-screen show up as just the rudimentary directions without your name, as if it's translating the horn blows, rather than it being as if the commander is sending text messages to you in those text dialogues. It's not a huge deal to me as is the system just working as it should be, but it is immersion-breaking.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
I find army versus army battles, with the current scenes, to be undoable. Primarily for two reasons:

1. The scenes are too small so it just becomes one big crowd. The battle limiter also means magical teleporting troops.

2. The orders are impossible to follow. One moment I get told to charge charge charge! The next I'm told to go for the center, or the horse archers, or what have you. Then every now and then I'm told to pull back. How do you rely this order to your own formation? Do you just use the follow command?

1. Yeah.

2. They are the exact same orders the AI gives as captain. You can ignore them with zero penalty but odds are the AI will at some point order you to do something sensible like pull back and you'll get caught out if you ignore them. The AI doesn't understand "part of my force is trapped, I should rescue them" so they'll totally ignore you getting owned.
 
instead of joining a lord's army, i merely help out in their fights. and this even extended when i had my own kingdom, i was at war with the Aserai and so is the south empire so i joined them once in a 1800 vs 1300 battle.

i go agree with OP with the battle size limiting and reinforcement mechanic. it's really stupid. to have dudes just magically teleport into the middle of combat
I also think the battlefields are too small. I think there should be 1000man limit for party battles. and 5000m limit for army battles. and army battles exceeding a certain number should load a different set of large battle grounds.

but TW seems it's their top priority to create more village scenes, as if we give a flying **** about that lol. the reason i don't load into villages is because they are too damn ****ing small and full of buildings. i can't even set formations up. there's no room for the units that all seems to take 2 meter squared of space each.
 

flarebright

Recruit
That doesn't explain why the orders in the game are materialized as if the commander is speaking to you. You are correct about horns, musical instruments, and signal flags being used for orders, but they were far from the only methods, even in the most organized pre-modern armies such as the Romans, you need to have direct human communication in order to coordinate something so complicated. In smaller skirmishes, shouting orders was probably sufficient in many situations, but commanders speaking to each other, sending runners or riders in larger battles, is obviously necessary. You can't really replicate that in this game though. I'd rather have the orders that appear on-screen show up as just the rudimentary directions without your name, as if it's translating the horn blows, rather than it being as if the commander is sending text messages to you in those text dialogues. It's not a huge deal to me as is the system just working as it should be, but it is immersion-breaking.
I view it as part of our character's historical background is they learned what orders those horn sounds match too. As I recall one of the childhood history events we go through when making characters talks about how all young adults were expected to take part in military service and asking us in what capacity we served.

My interpretation of the message we see is just a translation for a player. The orders that I remember also don't seem super complicated. They are stuff like "archers to skirmish in front" and "cavalry attack on left flank".

The above said I am all for more player choices. So if developers wanted to game option to disable screen messages for those who prefer horn sounds only, I would be all for it as long as it's a selectable option. They would need unique horn sounds for every order though.... Could also have different sounds for different cultural kingdoms too, for extra role play style points. But all of that takes development time so it's a question of priorities.
 

Danny5

Sergeant
That's why I always just order my sergeants to take over, it gets hectic at times, when the ai is shouting random orders
 

thefirst1nvad3r

Section Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I never follow orders, just because the Leader changes his mind every half minute before facing the enemies and getting away from the fray.
 

anoddhermit

Sergeant
instead of joining a lord's army, i merely help out in their fights. and this even extended when i had my own kingdom, i was at war with the Aserai and so is the south empire so i joined them once in a 1800 vs 1300 battle.

i go agree with OP with the battle size limiting and reinforcement mechanic. it's really stupid. to have dudes just magically teleport into the middle of combat
I also think the battlefields are too small. I think there should be 1000man limit for party battles. and 5000m limit for army battles. and army battles exceeding a certain number should load a different set of large battle grounds.

but TW seems it's their top priority to create more village scenes, as if we give a flying **** about that lol. the reason i don't load into villages is because they are too damn ****ing small and full of buildings. i can't even set formations up. there's no room for the units that all seems to take 2 meter squared of space each.

Often this does more harm than good lol.

The AI on your side often does ridiculous things that will lose battles they would win in autocalculate. I think some formations - like circle - should be off limits to AI because they don't have the sense to use them sparingly/appropriately in context.

Seems to vary by faction though. I find Khuzaits perform way better but they're the faction I want to be wiped out first ...

I sometimes join factions I want to influence the strength of as mercenary to deplete their forces by "helping" and having my force sit back in a strong position while the AI suicides their troops.
 

dannazgu

Sergeant at Arms
Sometimes, but usually only follow the logical ones, for example, if leading ranged shooting from cover, shoot form high ground etc

But you're not losing anything, I though by following could give us more rewards, but it does not
 
Often this does more harm than good lol.
i usually pivot my entire army based on what my "ally" does. which inevitably is either charge or hold up at some position.

using my "allies" as shields i can reduce my casualties to a minimum while also reducing their casualties. since we have the numbers advantage.

the example i gave, the south empire was 900 vs 1300 and almost guaranteed to lose, but i showed up with my 900 men and saved the day. i ended up losing about 10 fodder troops. while the south empire lost 150 for a 1300 wipe.
 

Nogand

Recruit
1. Yeah.

2. They are the exact same orders the AI gives as captain. You can ignore them with zero penalty but odds are the AI will at some point order you to do something sensible like pull back and you'll get caught out if you ignore them. The AI doesn't understand "part of my force is trapped, I should rescue them" so they'll totally ignore you getting owned.
That's what I do when my reinforcements leeroy jenkins into the enemy when I'm on the ideal defensive position, so fair enough. Maybe they should be programmed to rescue you if you have good relations?
 

Zyffyr

Recruit
My personal preference is to lead the archers. I follow sensible orders, and for the stupid ones I at least pay attention to what they likely mean the rest of the army is about to do..

I have lost count of how many times the AI has rapidly swapped between telling me to "Skirmish in front of the Infantry" and "Skirmish behind the Infantry". Sometimes 4 or 5 changes in less than a minute. Make up your empty mind.
 
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