Discussion + Suggestions

[Leonion]

I think cheats must be enabled in the M&B launcher as well?

Sure.
Does PBOD allows one to bypass this requirement?

 

[T.L.S.]

I think cheats must be enabled in the M&B launcher as well?

Sure.
Does PBOD allows one to bypass this requirement?

Nope

 

[Zamolxis]

Now i see what you mean. I enabled in the M&B launcher and it works. And ,yes, you can enable it in PBOD options without having it enabled in launcher.

 

[TheBanditKing]

Been really having a blast with this mod. Definitely the best I've played so far.  Thanks to the team for all the hardwork on this. I can definitely tell there has been a lot of thought put into it in every aspect. Thanks,

#1 One quick note about the Zann from my experiences (normal settings),

Spoiler

When the Zann invasion happened they took over like 3/4 of the map and I was like wtf is this ****. Then all the factions started whooping their ass which was totally bad ass after it all played out, eventually taking most of their lands back....But here's my oberservations and suggestion about it,

After the initial invasion they don't seem to be very offensive or defensive. They're pretty much just hangin around now. Having said that, Its pretty well balanced but they should be slightly more aggressive/defensive post invasion maybe. (or even a possible second invasion?) Their not really defending their cities hardly at all, could be they are too spread out and too few generals and the fact they are at war with most everyone. Really loving it though, when they first invaded I was like "oh ****" lol.

#2  The town guild master quests seem to be very tricky to complete, mainly the deserter quests (sometimes the illika and others, they are usually unfindable 95% of the time, probably cause of their speed, they seem to hit and run so its usually impossible to ever hunt them down, many times another party will wipe them first as well. Eventually the quest will fail but it takes a while to get another job from the same town and its usually the same type of quest that will be given at that town again.

#3 Also, when fights start, the enemy force usually always rushes immediately and never play defensively or use any formations, definitely never have time to command any troops to any positions, it almost seems like the enemy forces start too close to each other as opposed to native? Only noticed a couple of factions the use any kind of strategy, Fealcons do, and Eagles I think. Would be nice to have more time to setup force positions.

#4 The guy that gives the illika quest in Voldeberg, I never did the quest, never found the caravan and now I think its impossible to restart? Wish there was a way to cancel active quests without failing them.

#5 One last suggestion, Archer power in sieging I'm sure it has been brought up before. Some way to curb the power of archers on the initial siege pushes, the defenders should be smart enough to back up a bit or something, the usual shoot kill and retreat is really powerful in Perisno to take cities. However, an easy solution would be to have a medium sized force of infantry outside the castle to prevent archers from getting their foothold. This did happen to me once when I tried to siege Vinica, a force of infantry pushed my archers as soon as I assaulted, I was forced to abandon the siege.

Thanks to the team for all the hard work. Absolutely amazingly funtastic. Would gladly donate if you point me in the right direction.

 

[Leonion]

#1 One quick note about the Zann from my experiences (normal settings),

Spoiler

When the Zann invasion happened they took over like 3/4 of the map

Oh come one, their scripted invasion can only take up to

Spoiler

9 towns out of 29 and 17 castles out of 64

After the initial invasion they don't seem to be very offensive or defensive. They're pretty much just hangin around now.

Well, after the scripted invasion is over, Zann start following the same general AI rules as other factions. Except for the fact that they also get extra escorts and hordes that siege castles.
I would have made them more aggressive, but even now I've seen comments like "OMG, Zann took over the map, everything is destroyed, they're unstoppable, the hope is lost, my game is over, you stupid developer screwed up everything".

Also, when fights start, the enemy force usually always rushes immediately and never play defensively or use any formations, definitely never have time to command any troops to any positions, it almost seems like the enemy forces start too close to each other as opposed to native?

I'm pretty sure map size is the same - for open field battles as well as for forest battles.
With PBOD removed, tactics is the same as in Native.
With PBOD in it, lords are more passive.
And personally, whenever I used archers and infantry, I always had enough time to prepare for the immediate charge: in Perisno, in PoP, in other mods with aggressive AI. You just need to click buttons very fast, like at the speed of professional touch typers.
The enemy won't wait for you.

Archer power in sieging

Well, there is no easy way to render that archers tactics useless.
Doing it from AI perspective is mathematically complicated, if possible at all considering how many different castles are out there.
Replacing all siege scenes with gate-based or something like this would take months. There are a couple of OSPs with such scenes, but a number of walled centers in Perisno is too big.
The best option is probably forcing castle defenders to retreat from walls and prepare a death trap at the castle yard (archers stay at the yard, cavalry and infantry protect the ladders). But - again - it's a mix of AI changes plus serious scene editing - new entry points for all the siege scenes, lots of testing. Also I'm sure many people will complain that it looks weird and unrealistic.

 

[T.L.S.]

Well, after the scripted invasion is over, Zann start following the same general AI rules as other factions. Except for the fact that they also get extra escorts and hordes that siege castles.
I would have made them more aggressive, but even now I've seen comments like "OMG, Zann took over the map, everything is destroyed, they're unstoppable, the hope is lost, my game is over, you stupid developer screwed up everything".

Is it possible to add this aggressiveness to the hard mode?

Th best option is probably forcing AI to retreat from walls and prepare a death trap at the castle yard (archers stay at the yard, cavalry and infantry protect the ladders). But - again - it's a mix of AI changes plus serious scene editing - new entry points for all the siege scenes, lots of testing. Also I'm sure many people will complain that it looks weird and unrealistic.

Amount of the stucked units shall be horrific... And i doubt that there are another few dosens of scenes with Tamatarhun's sieging composition to prevent this.

 

[Leonion]

Is it possible to add this aggressiveness to the hard mode?

Yeah, I guess so.
That's a good idea, I shall think about it.

 

[TheBanditKing]

Thanks for the quick response. Don't get me wrong, you and the team have done a stellar job all the way around on this.

Spoiler

The invasion is bad ass the way it is. There was a moment when they took town after town that I was wondering if it would calm down or they would take over the whole map. Having said that, it was right when I thought that, that the tide did turn against them. Was at this point for me when I realized how badass this mod is, just to clarify a bit. It's those wtf moments that make games unique and the invasion is certainly a wtf moment. And that "oh **** moment" was pretty epic in retrospect.

Definitely having a blast though, just took out 1400 aroulos with about 40 deaths though, they are quite easy compared to any other faction but I guess they are the primitive savage type pygmy tribe that doesn't stand much of a chance which is probably why they are isolated on the island there. Everything is pretty solid and well thought out as is though, just going to provide my nooby observations as I notice them, been playing only for a week now so I'm still a novice in Perisno.

So this probably isn't the place for a question but....I started with fog of war and for the life of me can't find the Bakkal Giants. Where might they live?

 

[Leonion]

So this probably isn't the place for a question but....I started with fog of war and for the life of me can't find the Bakkal Giants. Where might they live?

Spoiler

 

[Elario]

Well here is a post about weapon stats. I know you recently worked on this Leonion but it's something to think about in future updates.

So I found out while watching for weapons for my mercs that some one handed axes and swords and basicly every weapon has some unrealistic values.
For example there is the dragon battle axe. It's one handed 2.1 weight 89 speed 90 reach.
It's not about the speed which I think should b calculated like weight/length / or * the weapon proficies but about the length.
So in reallife I happen to have a two handet axe for woodcutting which is about 88cm long. So i guess the length paraeter ingame is ment as centimeter.
So in the world of perisno/warband of course I would have np wearing it. In reallife im 1.85 tall and it's really ment to be a two handet axe. Maybe if you are a hardly trained 2 meter man you could one hand it but in every way else you would be hardly unpractical and exhausting because you wouldn't have anyway of handling it well a fortior (thanks goodle ) at all.
So the weight is the second thing. My axe at home is a usual supermarket like axe, leightweight build with plastic carbon, rubber and of course the steal head. I would estimate although I have no scale here I would estimate it around 3-4 kilo. So in the world of perisno our one handed dragon battle axe is about 2.1, I guess, kilo though it seems to be made of wood and massic steel. You can see that it doesn't seem really realistic.
Additionally I have a question: Does someone know how the speed is specially handled? I think it's just a value in the spreadsheet but it also gets lowered by profincies. Does somebody know the values there? For example of much speed reduction you get for 100 profincies?
Cheers

Elario

 

[T.L.S.]

So in the world of perisno/warband of course I would have np wearing it. In reallife im 1.85 tall and it's really ment to be a two handet axe. Maybe if you are a hardly trained 2 meter man you could one hand it but in every way else you would be hardly unpractical and exhausting because you wouldn't have anyway of handling it well a fortior (thanks goodle ) at all.

In real life you won't be able to wield most of the longswords with 1 hand as well, but trained sworsman can...

 

[Leonion]

Whatever you will say about weight - I will agree with it, but will be too lazy to redo it (based on Pareto principle).
Now that's the part of the balance I actually didn't care much about because determining weight by sight is a little difficult.
I had some standards (like surcoats having weight 15-18, plate armor starting at 21-22 and so on), but everything was really approximate, since this value is probably the least important in Warband.

Speed was set by sight. If it's a small axe with small metal part, it's like 95-105. If it's a bigger axe with bigger metal part, the speed gets smaller. I would usually compare the current item with previous ones and set higher/lower speed respectively.

I understand that current axes might not be very realistic (and to hell with usual ones, we have Executor, Dagor Axe, and the axe that's wielded by Volheere berserkers), but it's the case when I have to sacrifice realism for the sake of balance. If all 1h axes are short, their usage and effectiveness will be really limited.
Just imagine that they are made of some very light metal that only exists in Perisno.
Personally, I always find it the best and easiest way to explain things such as arrows penetrating plate armor and stuff - by assuming that the laws of physics and chemistry are a little different in that particular fantasy world.
Items should be more or less balanced in comparison to each other - that's what is important. Their absolute values can be easily "fixed" with enough imagination. Because, fortunately, Perisno is not a historically accurate mod.

As for speed and WP:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,346233.msg8453920.html#msg8453920

 

[Jurab]

Just my two cents but could you look at adjusting the aurolo weapon stats going forward? Is it intentional that their tier 1 - tier 3 troops have the same exact staff? Just fudging the number slightly and adding "fine" or "masterwork" to the names would make a huge difference for viability. Maybe also add a little damage to the leaf bombs as they level up top tier.

 

[Leonion]

Just my two cents but could you look at adjusting the aurolo weapon stats going forward? Is it intentional that their tier 1 - tier 3 troops have the same exact staff? Just fudging the number slightly and adding "fine" or "masterwork" to the names would make a huge difference for viability. Maybe also add a little damage to the leaf bombs as they level up top tier.

Regular units cannot use modified weapons (masterwork etc.).
The fact that they use staves only is a part of their lore - they can't use metal weapons.
I tried giving them some axes at first, but cwr insisted that I should take them back.
Still those staves should be good enough for their level according to my calculations. In case of Aroulo bad weapons are compensated by their high WPs and strength/PS.

 

[Jurab]

Just my two cents but could you look at adjusting the aurolo weapon stats going forward? Is it intentional that their tier 1 - tier 3 troops have the same exact staff? Just fudging the number slightly and adding "fine" or "masterwork" to the names would make a huge difference for viability. Maybe also add a little damage to the leaf bombs as they level up top tier.

Regular units cannot use modified weapons (masterwork etc.).
The fact that they use staves only is a part of their lore - they can't use metal weapons.
I tried giving them some axes at first, but cwr insisted that I should take them back.
Still those staves should be good enough for their level according to my calculations. In case of Aroulo bad weapons are compensated by their high WPs and strength/PS.

Let me clarify. I meant raising the blunt damage for the staves as the troops progress from 22b to maybe 22-28-35 and adding something to the staff names to differentiate them. Something like "superior" or "fine". I didn't mean actual masterwork.(sorry) it just seems like they take forever to kill mid tier to high their units. I was watching a proven warrior battle a dessert assassin and it took 5 swings if  I remember correctly. 

 

[Tonitrus]

Wondering why I could never recruit them as prisoners, I noticed in Morghs that the female "Mercenary Archer" line is under the "Outlaws" faction instead of the "Commoners" faction, as the male mercenary line is.

Was this intentional?  Did I potentially screw anything up by changing them to Commoners?

 

[Leonion]

Yes, those ladies were meant to be rogue-ish, unlike other females from a bigger troop tree.

But, no, you didn't screw up anything.

 

[zxcvbnm1234567890_0]

Hello, I have a little suggestion about customized troops. I have played a mod called 16th Century, it lets me change my kingdom troops' stats, change their name too, and the lords of my kingdom can also recruit these troops. The author has released its PY code, so I think you guys might want to take a look.
Sorry if it has already been suggested or you have already had different plan. And sorry for my bad English. 

 

[Leonion]

Your lords can already recruit these troops.
I will not add an ability to change custom troop's stats because they're already strong enough.

 

[T.L.S.]

Your lords can already recruit these troops.
I will not add an ability to change custom troop's stats because they're already strong enough.

But what about changing their names? Perisno conquered by Hired Riders, Cavalry, Knights... but none of them had horses (used them as poleaxe infantry in no-cavalry run)  Household Guards also deserve ability to change their name.