Discussion + Suggestions

[Sleeeves]

Maybe I should rethink having my blushing bride accompany me on her matching charger.

 

[Ghini]

After almost 100 hours on this mod I'd like to suggest a couple things. One I'd like to see Slave Trading less rewarding. I'd lower the price offered by bartenders and such to 30-40%. It should be much less rewarding to sell slaves to a bartender. Perhaps you could just limit his purchasing to once every couple weeks or months. I'd like to see an increase in quests rewards. It would be nice to be able to make a bit more on questing and maybe bounty hunting. I'd also love to see trading/merchant get some incentives. I'd also make fixing the duplicating armor a priority, as it ruins the hunt for gear for both the pc and companions. I'm forcing myself to avoid grabbing their gear but it's very hard knowing it's a click away.

Love the mod, can't wait to put in 100 more hours. Thanks for listening.

 

[Trarco]

At the moment if you lose a battle and your wife is captured there is no way to recover her.  She isn't treated as a normal companion nor can she be ransomed.
When she is freed she doesn't return to your court but to a random city and wont recognize you.  She inherits the dialog that only offers you to fight or surrender.  Much as I enjoy the notion of my wife possibly able to make a man surrender, it does look bleak at the moment this glitch.

  I proposed a scheme for how to fix this and posted it on Rigale board perhaps 2 months ago but haven't gotten around to doing it yet, as at the time someone was writing me offering to write it and add it to the OSP.  But they never wrote back...

  There SHOULD be some expansion to the wife as a companion to at least handle her capture, ransom, release, and return to court, or her father/brothers place, or failing those then the court of your liege, and if none of the above then float like a pretender.

  There are a number of places that need a trap.  When war is ended and all prisoners are released, for example, needs special handling.  And on a slow timer if she is not at court, not in your party, and not out buying bread she should be teleported back to home... just to hotpatch any issue.  Or perhaps as a cheat menu command, to make her an un-prisoner and then implement the "It's too dangerous for you, get thee back to court" script.

  - GS

Are you planning to fix the wife problem in Phosphor? Thanks in advance gsanders 

 

[gsanders]

I'll eventually put something in it for companion wife getting captured and some sort of scheme to have her released correctly.

Here's what I have so far (from a post March 6 on Rigale forum):
"Hey! First of all, thanks for your hard work in the MBW community.
Q:
I did have one question on the bug list you mentioned: did you ever find out what was up with #20? The wife who joined your party getting stuck in a city after losing a battle and defaulting to the "Surrender or die" dialog? This bug is in –like you said– EVERY mod out there, and I've tried unsuccessfully to fix it myself. I'm thinking it is something stupidly simple in conversations.txt.

Would appreciate your insight! Maybe if you just point me in the right direction I can explore more myself –and would report back to you if I figure it out.

Thanks a lot!
Feb 23 (11 days ago)
-------
Answer:
    Sure.  I'll sketch out the problem in a general way and sort-of pseudo-code my preferred lines of attack to the problem, as I am deep in another issue at the moment but this is something everyone needs as well...

A) Prevent it from happening:

  The problem is when a normal companion is released from prison,

    for example when peace or truce is declared in diplomacy,
        normally there is a check starting at companions_begin and ending_companions_end to see if a companion
        is available and that companion is placed at a tavern etc to be found again by random visits OR a traveler

    Likewise a Ransom broker normally checks companion_begin to companion_end in order to find any companions that are in prison and then offers a list of all such for you to ransom.

    In both cases a player wife is missed; she is outside this range and should be added by inspecting

        a)  Does a player have a wife

        b) and is this wife in prison?

  When companions are set free by change of war status
      a check should be added to see if the above two conditions (has a spouse && spouse is prisoner)
      exist, then if would be set free the call should be same as performed when in dialog you the player choose
    "I want you to go to court.  This is too dangerous"  you could Find "This is too dangerous" in module_dialogs.py
    to find that bit of code.

  So that's how to keep from the problem STARTING, but what about recovering after its already happened?

B) Clever recovery if its too late:

  for this you go to simple_triggers

    find a trigger that seldom happens say once per week or once every 2-3 weeks

    there should be no conditional test at the trigger;
      it should something that ALWAYS happens, just happens seldom

before whatever is normally ran by the trigger we just put some code to check / fix stuck spouse AND wrap it in a try-begin / try_end pair so it doesn't walk on the old trigger, which then proceeds normally regardless of if you have a spouse  and if that spouse is or isn't stuck someplace.

  If you define a NEW trigger you break savegame; but if you hijack one that's already in use, savegame isn't broken.
  [
    (try_begin),
          does the player have a spouse?
          (try_begin),
              is that spouse at court?
              is that spouse in your party?
          (else),
              send spouse to court
          (try_end),
      (try_end), 

      normal trigger contents follow
        ...   
    ]     
  you could also put a cheat menu item at camp_mnu in  module_game_menus.py to send your spouse to court
without talking to her/him, in which case you should also clear any status "prisoner" attribute for your spouse,
in case someone pops them out of prison instead of waiting for them to be released.

  I'd love to see it working, if you finish it.  If not then I'll get around to it sometime, but not likely this week.

  - GS"

 

[gsanders]

After almost 100 hours on this mod I'd like to suggest a couple things. One I'd like to see Slave Trading less rewarding. I'd lower the price offered by bartenders and such to 30-40%. It should be much less rewarding to sell slaves to a bartender. Perhaps you could just limit his purchasing to once every couple weeks or months. I'd like to see an increase in quests rewards. It would be nice to be able to make a bit more on questing and maybe bounty hunting. I'd also love to see trading/merchant get some incentives. I'd also make fixing the duplicating armor a priority, as it ruins the hunt for gear for both the pc and companions. I'm forcing myself to avoid grabbing their gear but it's very hard knowing it's a click away.

Love the mod, can't wait to put in 100 more hours. Thanks for listening.

  My usual short reply / rebuttal follows:

Spoiler

  The armor duplication is from auto-loot, which could be removed entirely as the least effort fix.

  As for slavery, I made the same observation in December and determined there needed to be a second method in the meta-game to pay for expensive troops.  I both lowered the cost of the troops (especially mercenaries) and raised the enterprise earnings in terms of output versus input, and lowered the cost of input at some but not every city, so that velvet works are not automatically the most profitable enterprise at every location.  With .75 some of that local differentiation was changed but Zaph did increase the amount that an enterprise could earn, and it may yet be more profitable in some locations to make oil or ironworks (or wine) than velvet in a given city.  The background availability of grapes, grain, cattle for leather, sheep for wool, flax for linen, and so on is now greatly differentiated by town and village, whereas before they were all more or less the same, which stunted trade incentives for the player-trader.  With trade stimulated and enterprises booming, slavery does not need to be the financial short circuit it had become.  If there were further moral issues blocking slavery in-game, then hopefully these become balanced.  I'd like to see a reward for helping get people back to their families or some low level slaves being VIPs once freed, if handled correctly.  These are summer issues...

  As Perisno by definition changes seldom, I made a place to float ideas that changes often, but its thoroughly unpopular, in part because it is so top secret people don't know how to find it (searching for Rigale requires some skill), and in part because it is assumed anything that involved a tired old mod merged can't really be very exciting anyway.  Except, "I do more than cut & paste" (TM).  I made Perisno "test" (Phosphor) implicitly experimental -- if it hasn't changed this week, it's cause for worry.  Assuming "I'm not dead yet" (TM) , a week without some sort of changes needs an explanation, or perhaps a note from my fairy-gosh-mother/father.  "My dog ate my homework" isn't acceptable.

  If you can man up and handle a constantly changing game, try Phosphor for your economy changes.  If not, be happy Perisno seldom changes.  That means it will not add your suggestions much faster than it changes anyway, but summer comes and that is traditionally when any changes that do come occur.  I'm not certain my Pho is more stable than .8; but I am convinced its no less stable than Perisno was last December, for similar reasons.  It managed to survive change then in part by a change in design philosophy and manpower, but the pace changed as well.  There is room for both now.

  Zeph has made the economy more viable, and I already tweaked some economy issues for traders in Perisno -- silk in the villages around Forniron for example are very low priced; salt at Khul var; iron in Dwarf kingdom.  You could make a triangle with these already.  But it is much more interesting if iron had a use; if grapes and fruit and raw fish suddenly became important for producing non-perishable food types; if silk was needed to make heraldic armors for your companions.  All that exists today, right now, without having to wait on the summer.  Some (but not all) of it may yet make it into Perisno .8 ("official"), per Michadr.  It's entirely his call. 

    I'll try to put some caravan intrigue this summer as well, but there are many things on my time schedule already for the summer and although I have posted in Zykox's lets play series down below this my dev log for the last 5 months it shows me spending quite some time on the economy layer and not getting a whole lot of other tasks done.  Hopefully it's starting to show some results.  I do see more than the 6-8 players I earlier estimated at least reading the huge walls of text in Rigale forum, so I figure, given another month or so to read that much, some dozens of people will accept my challenge to take up a more frustrating yet hopefully more interesting spin on Perisno.  But if not I will agree it waits on "perfection", which apparently not even Perisno has yet attained...

    - GS

 

[Zephilinox]

After almost 100 hours on this mod I'd like to suggest a couple things. One I'd like to see Slave Trading less rewarding. I'd lower the price offered by bartenders and such to 30-40%. It should be much less rewarding to sell slaves to a bartender. Perhaps you could just limit his purchasing to once every couple weeks or months. I'd like to see an increase in quests rewards. It would be nice to be able to make a bit more on questing and maybe bounty hunting. I'd also love to see trading/merchant get some incentives. I'd also make fixing the duplicating armor a priority, as it ruins the hunt for gear for both the pc and companions. I'm forcing myself to avoid grabbing their gear but it's very hard knowing it's a click away.

Love the mod, can't wait to put in 100 more hours. Thanks for listening.

In 0.75 you can sell prisoners once a week per tavern, and selling them results in 10% less than if you sold them to ransom brokers.
The buffs to rents, enterprises, and land acres makes non-slavery very viable as a form of income. You should no longer feel compelled to hire an army of blunt-wielding troops just to earn enough to pay them.

 

[Trarco]

thanks for the reply GS, and for your great work, too. I like your summer project and your view of the economy of Perisno, so best of luck with your scheme 

 

[Trarco]

Hello everyone, I have some new suggestions :

1) The faces of dwarf women seem human faces. Can you also convert  these faces to “dwarf style” face? Maybe faces with a little beard or hairstyles  with long braids and jewels. On the other hand, maybe it is easier to create a broad body  with special dresses  to get a dwarf style.

2) Ridable bears.

3) Have you got already lore for the enemies of the giants?, If this is not the case, I want to propose a new minor faction: a tribe of humans that hunt giants. If, furthermore,  you add bears, they can ride bears.

That's all, thanks for your time! 

 

[Sleeeves]

The armor duplication is from auto-loot, which could be removed entirely as the least effort fix.

Please don't!  Once companions get sufficient skills/strength, I often give them specific equipment but it's tedious tending to upgrades for them before they get to that point.

In 0.75 you can sell prisoners once a week per tavern, and selling them results in 10% less than if you sold them to ransom brokers.
The buffs to rents, enterprises, and land acres makes non-slavery very viable as a form of income. You should no longer feel compelled to hire an army of blunt-wielding troops just to earn enough to pay them.

A player with high trading skill can now do quite well financially without much prisoner skill.  It's a nice change, and affects recruiting as well as timing of when (or perhaps if) to go into mercenary or vassal roles.

 

[Cider]

I think it would be cool if cultivating new land should increase the trade and could increase the population of the city. If it does that already then ignore me

 

[HandofBane]

After a bit more play, including several restarts, I wanted to pipe up and say the change to the Zann so each general has enough troops to take a town solo when they land may be overkill, but does resolve the issue with the invasion fizzling out within the first month in most cases.  During one game, I signed up with them shortly after they landed and before their marshal started his first campaign, and saw firsthand what the issue was breaking them. 

From the spawn point over near Lesbere, we made peace with everyone but the Hakkon, Kaikoth and Valahir, then marched all the way up to Grindr to lay siege to it.  In response, the Valahir forces kept on trying to break the siege by running up, grabbing the attention of the *entire* Zann army, then fleeing when they saw how outnumbered they were.  Unfortunately, due to the sheer size of the Zann armies, they could rarely catch anyone to kill, so they ended up getting pulled down almost to the village of Vole before beating up a single lord, wiping his army, then the marshal seeing he was too far from the target town and the Emperor had already run past and started a siege by himself.  Because of this, the marshal called off the campaign, and everyone else stood around doing absolutely nothing for the next few days, unless a villager or scout/patrol caught their eye.  If I had not parked my own army in such a position that no enemies could get close enough for the Emperor to see them, he would have done the same and the siege would have broken again, giving the lords time to start defecting because they had no lands.  Once the siege completed and the assault began, it became far easier to keep everyone happy and busy, and the Valahir ended up wiped off the map within a couple weeks, with my personal intervention only being responsible for a single castle, while the marshal did all of the rest of the work taking everything else.  Not sure if it was chance or intended, but all the Zann lords were Upstanding/Good Natured/Martial, so they all consistently cooperated and answered the marshal's summons, which may have had something to do with it.

TL;DR - Zann ADHD was what prevented them from succeeding at invading properly.  Giving them enough men that the Emperor alone could take a town as long as he didn't get distracted appears to have helped fix it, mostly.

An alternative that might work to relieve that issue, if having that many men is still causing the problem for others, may be to give some of (or all?) the generals a few points of pathfinding instead of starting with 600 men each, so they can catch and kill lords rather than be kited off and forget what they are doing.

 

[Zephilinox]

After a bit more play, including several restarts, I wanted to pipe up and say the change to the Zann so each general has enough troops to take a town solo when they land may be overkill, but does resolve the issue with the invasion fizzling out within the first month in most cases.  During one game, I signed up with them shortly after they landed and before their marshal started his first campaign, and saw firsthand what the issue was breaking them. 

From the spawn point over near Lesbere, we made peace with everyone but the Hakkon, Kaikoth and Valahir, then marched all the way up to Grindr to lay siege to it.  In response, the Valahir forces kept on trying to break the siege by running up, grabbing the attention of the *entire* Zann army, then fleeing when they saw how outnumbered they were.  Unfortunately, due to the sheer size of the Zann armies, they could rarely catch anyone to kill, so they ended up getting pulled down almost to the village of Vole before beating up a single lord, wiping his army, then the marshal seeing he was too far from the target town and the Emperor had already run past and started a siege by himself.  Because of this, the marshal called off the campaign, and everyone else stood around doing absolutely nothing for the next few days, unless a villager or scout/patrol caught their eye.  If I had not parked my own army in such a position that no enemies could get close enough for the Emperor to see them, he would have done the same and the siege would have broken again, giving the lords time to start defecting because they had no lands.  Once the siege completed and the assault began, it became far easier to keep everyone happy and busy, and the Valahir ended up wiped off the map within a couple weeks, with my personal intervention only being responsible for a single castle, while the marshal did all of the rest of the work taking everything else.  Not sure if it was chance or intended, but all the Zann lords were Upstanding/Good Natured/Martial, so they all consistently cooperated and answered the marshal's summons, which may have had something to do with it.

TL;DR - Zann ADHD was what prevented them from succeeding at invading properly.  Giving them enough men that the Emperor alone could take a town as long as he didn't get distracted appears to have helped fix it, mostly.

An alternative that might work to relieve that issue, if having that many men is still causing the problem for others, may be to give some of (or all?) the generals a few points of pathfinding instead of starting with 600 men each, so they can catch and kill lords rather than be kited off and forget what they are doing.

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind. perhaps a temporary party speed buff to the zann for the first 72 hours.

 

[HandofBane]

Maybe a week.  It took us longer than 72 hours to get up to Grindr and finish the wait on ladders with the chasing and fighting along the way.  If they set their first target as someplace with a siege tower necessary, the buff would run out mid-siege, especially if it's someplace far across the map, like Hakkon, Kaikoth, or Drahara territory.

 

[themendios]

Playing 0.75, Zann still peace out with everyone almost instantly but they aren't wiped off the map yet.  They really need better troops too, they're just exp pinatas at the moment.  Something above Mounted Berserkers and the foot guys that's comparable to the other factions.

Also I like more money from the landlords thing (which I do actually like because you have to go to that town to collect and you can move your money around as you change bases) but moving it to weekly and 3x money = 6x money.  50 acres in Forniron was giving me 6 digit payouts and I just reinvested them elsewhere and I have the most amount of money I've ever had.

Maybe just try weekly 1.5x - it was way too low and biweekly was dumb with everything else being weekly but this is too much.  Don't remove it though!

 

[Joshua Ryde]

Playing 0.75, Zann still peace out with everyone almost instantly but they aren't wiped off the map yet.  They really need better troops too, they're just exp pinatas at the moment.  Something above Mounted Berserkers and the foot guys that's comparable to the other factions.

Also I like more money from the landlords thing (which I do actually like because you have to go to that town to collect and you can move your money around as you change bases) but moving it to weekly and 3x money = 6x money.  50 acres in Forniron was giving me 6 digit payouts and I just reinvested them elsewhere and I have the most amount of money I've ever had.

Maybe just try weekly 1.5x - it was way too low and biweekly was dumb with everything else being weekly but this is too much.  Don't remove it though!

shhhhh
I agree it is a lot of money, but also necessary to some extent because now i'm actually able to keep an army of 350+ without being bankrupt instantly - the only issue is morale ofc.
But saying that, i am just constantly re-investing my money into the 3-4 towns i hold on the edge of the map (Uliastai, Khul Vara, Arish) and getingg a few hundred thousand each week on top of production enterprises in every single city on the map. 3k-6k + rent + taxes + land plot rent = 100-300k a week
Thanks

 

[Watersidebullet]

I think a pretty cool feature you should add to the mod is the ability to customize the gear of lord/lady vassals under your kingdom. It would be nice if you wnt your kingdom and their lords to have a specific set of armor/appearance. If this is possible, I would love it if this could be a thing!

 

[themendios]

I think a pretty cool feature you should add to the mod is the ability to customize the gear of lord/lady vassals under your kingdom. It would be nice if you wnt your kingdom and their lords to have a specific set of armor/appearance. If this is possible, I would love it if this could be a thing!

There is a mod somewhere you can do this.  But in this mod you can do this with your wife, it's like "Love, let me remove your headwear" when they're in the field.  Maybe just change that line and apply it to vassals too.

 

[Jack Avenger]

What about having children with your spouse ?
I was thinking something like : when your children grew up, you can name them and they can join you as companions.
Yes I know, this is ambitious but I hope it's possible to make that happen 

 

[Michadr]

I must ask, can someone explain. What is up with everyone wanting a Orc faction???

 

[Trarco]

I must ask, can someone explain. What is up with everyone wanting a Orc faction???

Skyrim has done great damage hahaha no, seriously humanized orcs are really cool