[DISCUSSION] Fan Suggestion Thread

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The autocalc system can be quite inaccurate for high-end troops like the Noldor or the Jatu. Maybe another battle menu option that temporarily enables the cheat mode to speed up time, locks the cheat keys and removes you from the main party only during that battle can be implemented.

PS. if it isn't going to cause **** like this again.
 
Was just a thought, and probably one already suggested.  However, some option to flip sides during battle, or to get the other side to flip.

Edit: I know this won't work for vassals as the oaths are strongly supported, but it'd fit for like outcast bands or something, someway you could convince them to join you for a better life or something.  Also might work as a merc
 
1-When liege don't give a walled fief to you, he only give you 900 gold witch is way too low. or maybe you did it that way, so people just outrage and rebel?

2- Guild master quest for tracking down deserters/outlaws... need some tweaks, the unit may spawn way too far from the actual place (one I get the quest from avendor and find the deserter party near cez)

3- Plz increase the speed of time when we are waiting (100 day for next upgrade of cko)

4- Win tournament quest for knighthood orders, fail a lot of time, because when I reach the city the tournament is already over.

5- When I am a mercenary or vassal I can join the enemy side against my own faction and I only suffer -4 relation with my faction, witch let me do some nasty tricks like joining meltinese army against our marshal just to snipe the frienly snake pristess and anakanda knights.

6- Currently every game is the same, You must be honorable to have friends so you defeat lords let them go, capture noldor let them go, kill bandit for village ask for no reward and so on. a lot of kings were blood thirsty and no one dared to oppose them. I suggest two approach to the game either be a bad guy so unhonorable lords like you more and you can recruit evil orders (eventide for example) knight easily with negative honor, pillage village, flee from battle and every single nasty thing you can do or be a good guy so honorable lords like you more and you can recruit good orders knights (silvermist maybe) easily with positive honor. Most likely pendor prophesy is about a honorable individual, but it's a prophesy and it can go the other way around, that's why the heretics exist and they can summon demonic magni, why we can't be heretic to the prophecy of pendor?
 
omegaweapon said:
1-When liege don't give a walled fief to you, he only give you 900 gold witch is way too low. or maybe you did it that way, so people just outrage and rebel?

2- Guild master quest for tracking down deserters/outlaws... need some tweaks, the unit may spawn way too far from the actual place (one I get the quest from avendor and find the deserter party near cez)

3- Plz increase the speed of time when we are waiting (100 day for next upgrade of cko)

4- Win tournament quest for knighthood orders, fail a lot of time, because when I reach the city the tournament is already over.

5- When I am a mercenary or vassal I can join the enemy side against my own faction and I only suffer -4 relation with my faction, witch let me do some nasty tricks like joining meltinese army against our marshal just to snipe the frienly snake pristess and anakanda knights.

6- Currently every game is the same, You must be honorable to have friends so you defeat lords let them go, capture noldor let them go, kill bandit for village ask for no reward and so on. a lot of kings were blood thirsty and no one dared to oppose them. I suggest two approach to the game either be a bad guy so unhonorable lords like you more and you can recruit evil orders (eventide for example) knight easily with negative honor, pillage village, flee from battle and every single nasty thing you can do or be a good guy so honorable lords like you more and you can recruit good orders knights (silvermist maybe) easily with positive honor. Most likely pendor prophesy is about a honorable individual, but it's a prophesy and it can go the other way around, that's why the heretics exist and they can summon demonic magni, why we can't be heretic to the prophecy of pendor?
2. Go to it as soon as you get the quest. If you already do that, then I have no suggestion but maybe drop some troops to increase speed.
6. Madigan prophesied a hero, so it's been stated repeatedly that the PC in PoP must be good. Makes for a better story, that way.
 
omegaweapon said:
[...]
6- Currently every game is the same, You must be honorable to have friends so you defeat lords let them go, capture noldor let them go, kill bandit for village ask for no reward and so on. a lot of kings were blood thirsty and no one dared to oppose them. I suggest two approach to the game either be a bad guy so unhonorable lords like you more and you can recruit evil orders (eventide for example) knight easily with negative honor, pillage village, flee from battle and every single nasty thing you can do or be a good guy so honorable lords like you more and you can recruit good orders knights (silvermist maybe) easily with positive honor. Most likely pendor prophesy is about a honorable individual, but it's a prophesy and it can go the other way around, that's why the heretics exist and they can summon demonic magni, why we can't be heretic to the prophecy of pendor?

I suggest you take another look at the history of feudalism. In fact, most medieval kings could not afford being bloodthirsty, so as not to lose subjects, and were opposed by their vassals one or the other time: English kings quarreling with their vassals (cf. John Lackland), German Emperors being quite unable to keep imperial princes from doing what they want, French kings having to call crusades against the southern part of their kingdom to reconquer it, Spain being a bloody mess of little kingdoms anyway, etc.
 
iskar said:
omegaweapon said:
[...]
6- Currently every game is the same, You must be honorable to have friends so you defeat lords let them go, capture noldor let them go, kill bandit for village ask for no reward and so on. a lot of kings were blood thirsty and no one dared to oppose them. I suggest two approach to the game either be a bad guy so unhonorable lords like you more and you can recruit evil orders (eventide for example) knight easily with negative honor, pillage village, flee from battle and every single nasty thing you can do or be a good guy so honorable lords like you more and you can recruit good orders knights (silvermist maybe) easily with positive honor. Most likely pendor prophesy is about a honorable individual, but it's a prophesy and it can go the other way around, that's why the heretics exist and they can summon demonic magni, why we can't be heretic to the prophecy of pendor?

I suggest you take another look at the history of feudalism. In fact, most medieval kings could not afford being bloodthirsty, so as not to lose subjects, and were opposed by their vassals one or the other time: English kings quarreling with their vassals (cf. John Lackland), German Emperors being quite unable to keep imperial princes from doing what they want, French kings having to call crusades against the southern part of their kingdom to reconquer it, Spain being a bloody mess of little kingdoms anyway, etc.

I believe POP is not a historical game, I didn't say feudal European kings, history was not centered around medieval Europe, not every society is feudalism. there was blood thirsty kings in medieval Europe but they didn't last long like king john. If you want to rule with sword you need to have the sword if you loss the sword you loss your kingdom that's the challenge of being an evil ruler. I doubt the society of pendor is of feudalism as a foreigner can send his companion for gathering support and become a king.
 
Of course Pendor is modelled as a feudal society: Power and allegiance are completely based on the exchange of fiefs and oaths. Just read the oath you swear when you become the vassal of a king or the stuff lords say when they join your kingdom.

The entire right to rule thing is based on the idea that in order to prevail in a feudal society one has to establish a claim that makes it viable to be seen as the legitimate recipient of an oath of allegiance and a rightful distributor of fiefs.
 
Epicrules said:
It's also rather obvious that the game draws from primarily European culture, exceptions being.... well, the D'Shar.

roman empire, nord and D'shar(Persia) didn't had feudal system so your wrong

iskar said:
Of course Pendor is modelled as a feudal society: Power and allegiance are completely based on the exchange of fiefs and oaths. Just read the oath you swear when you become the vassal of a king or the stuff lords say when they join your kingdom.

The entire right to rule thing is based on the idea that in order to prevail in a feudal society one has to establish a claim that makes it viable to be seen as the legitimate recipient of an oath of allegiance and a rightful distributor of fiefs.
Your saying it, it's modeled so you can change whatever you want if the game, play smoothly.
You must have a reason for going to war where is that reason in POP? it take years to even forge a false claim for a reason to go to war. a commoner and foreigner can't raise to the throne so why you don't have any problem with that? because it's a game and we all want to be kings not vassals
if it was feudal system or anything near reality for that matter, you should never be able to be a king. you need documents and a lot of claim to even try to be a king as even peasant don't accept you as their king.

About your last paragraph "right to rule" it's not a feudal special thing, it's for everybody's society, even right now we see that in iraq since no one accept Daesh as a real country. so the only reason that prophecy of pendor is of feudal system is because of vassals, nothing else.

As I see it the faction drived from mix of crusader wars and old roman empire. In old roman empire time line Europe, there was no feudal society. In crusader wars time line the power was in the hand of religion leaders not kings that's why kings couldn't do much, a simple excommunication could result in your doom as everyone find a reason to declare war on you and claim your land, after crusader wars kings got more power as religious leaders had less power and kings could manage bigger lands so vassalage changed and ultimately removed.

It's easy to read history and say in feudal system it was hard to mange vassals but the true power was in the hand of pop not kings and we don't have religion in Prophecy of Pendor.

Anyway I don't know a lot of history, back to the topic do you like to always remain honorable and treat noldor with respect or you want to sometimes smash everyone's skulls and kill for fun?

I don't understand the discussion here if POP must remain in a modeled feudal society well it's something else, however if this system is just borrowed from warband for easier creating of POP ,why not change it?

Anyway it's a brainstorming area not history class and saying facts, I am just saying being honorable every time can be tiresome.
 
Your take on history is a bit simplistic, to say the least, but let us leave it at that. Point being, if you want to play with NPCs being your friends, you have to act accordingly and that's it. If you start slaughtering and scaring everybody, nobody will join you. There is, however, even now already the possibility of a lord-less playthrough in which you can burn, pillage and murder your way through Pendor to your very liking. Search for "lordless playthrough" on this board for the respective topic.
 
for last time we are suggesting an approach for a fantasy game not historical . If you want to teach history, there are other forums please remain on the subject. I don't know anything about history, and I don't take on anything specially history witch is not the subject of this thread. just played some europa universalis and crusader kings games. so all of my so called information are from there, simply I don't care about history at all, but I care about this game.

Anyway I still suggest a different approach to the game a lawful evil approach, as a fan of the game I like to do evil things like burning my enemies village and sacrificing noldor from time to time.
 
omegaweapon said:
I don't know anything about history

Yes, that's apparent. Anyhow, I suggest you familiarize yourself with PoP's lore. An evil playthrough doesn't really work with the endgoal in mind, but there's nothing stopping you from looting and pillaging. Everything has pros and cons.
 
In any case, all it takes is enough noldor prisoners to get your honor sky high and get you a good relationship with them.

So you could always loot pillage and whatever as long as you let some Noldor go for your final victory.
 
Kushana said:
In my current playthrough I'm having serious balance of power issues. At day 300 or so, three of the 5 factions are down to only 1~2 settlements. Fierdsvain owns 8 cities and fields 200-300 man  armies, Ravenstern is doing absolutely nothing, Empire loses every war, Sarleon holds  feasts while at the brink of collapse, and D'shar camped out in front of Torbah for the past 90 days and will likely be swatted  by the first faction that dow's them sooner or later.  These three struggling factions, from the looks of it, will be out of the game by the time I get my first castle.

Of course it sort of slipped my attention to try to do things to prevent faction collapse, like rescuing lords or mercing out to weak factions, which I'm trying desperately to make  up as of right now. But I wasn't expecting the balance of power to shift SO early. Most of the time I was minding my business without realizing how inept those losing factions were. Now I've tried three times to get Ravenstern and D'shar to declare war on the green fever, but each time King Valdis ignores the provocation.  I feel so dirty.  And then Raven goes on an declares war on weak Sarleon, which is getting reamed by 2 other factions already! Give me a break! 

It's disappointing to see the  troop tree diversity to disappear this way as most villages on the map only offer fierdsvain troops. I don't have anything against the fierdsvain troop tree, out of which I only need the huscarls (yes I know they also get berserkers, but I don't use them) but the presence of d'shar bladesmen and halberdiers in my army is really something I can't do without.  On top of that you know, I prefer to see Pendor neatly divided until I come along! If I have to spend the rest of the game fighting solely the fierdsvain and ravenstern  it would seriously affect my enjoyment of the campaign.

I never saw factions go this fast in vanilla. Yes, factions would wax and wane, but on their own it was rare until very late in the game. For instance playing as a Khergit vassal for over 500 days, I never really got to the point where any faction dominated more than half of the map, or where any one faction was at the verge of destruction. Admittedly I was taking it slow, relishing battles and trying to siege fairly without the use of exploits, but that's my playstyle.  Since Pendor is a particularly slow paced mod, where the player must take his time to build his character and party before taking on the world, it's very strange to see the balance of power shifting to one side (without even assistance from the player) earlier than it would in vanilla Warband. Other mods I've played, such as Floris, it was unusual too see one faction dominating over the rest until well over 700 days in the game. And it's not just me, I've noticed other people on the forum also having the same problem.

With this in view, I would like to offer a couple of suggestions.

-If a faction has less than 2 settlements other factions would not declare war on it for the first 500 days. Although by itself, it can still declare war on another. This is to prevent two struggling factions from destroying one another, while a neighboring big one moves in to stealthily blitz their weakly defended holdings.
-If a faction has more than say 6 settlements, other factions would likely make peace with each other and declare war on it. This would also make it more challenging for the player to unify Pendor.
-If a faction is way too weak it should receive some sort of reinforcement to prevent it from being knocked out too soon.
-Villages ought to train the troops they game started them with no matter who owns them, instead of instantly changing to that of  a different culture. Either that, or there should be some alternative way to gather recruits from all 5 factions.
-Faction capitals should be extra well defended, with many more troops than regular cities. This is to prevent capital gank which I saw early on in the game, with the D'Shar losing Singal and quickly withering away since. I believe this mechanic was also present in Floris.
-After a faction is vanquished and all its lords are in exile, I envision a kind of "return of the king"  mechanic where  the vanquished faction leader and his vassals spawn on the map to re-start the faction. "For instance, King X assembled a giant army and returned to Pendor to retake his lost possessions!".  Perhaps a bit too big of a thing to ask, especially since I don't know what the hardcoded limitations are.  This, if possible, would also provide a great new challenge in the late game.

That is exactly my case, more or less, how to keep the factions balanced to a reasonable point and prevent mid game nightmares and frustration, although this mod is pretty much about frustration xD in a good way.

Regarding CKO developement time, may be it can be reduced until the CKO reaches a decent level, more or less on par with the rest of the KOs and then make it steeper beyond that point.
 
Kushana said:
-Faction capitals should be extra well defended, with many more troops than regular cities. This is to prevent capital gank which I saw early on in the game, with the D'Shar losing Singal and quickly withering away since.
But the D'Shar capital is Torbah.
 
More flavour per faction regarding quests.
Also, if tavern keeps / village elders could somehow be given a backstory so we care about some of them, that'd be really exciting!

  • Different faction villages could offer different quests - need help with wild bears and wolves, fetching camels, specific supplies for trades etc
  • More ambush-like things - again with bears, or wolves 
  • Village elders could send you out on more quests for kidnapped members (like the first quest when you start the game, which differs depending on faction!)
  • Guild masters could have personalities - honourable likes you aiding villagers and escorting caravans | cunning secretly hires you to raid competing caravans or villagers from a more productive town!
 
A simple suggestion: both more one and (especially) two handed mauls!

Theres millions of designs :smile: as a maul lover I would love to see some of the amazing medieval designs available.

PS: this mod is amazing! thankyou so much for the hours of enjoyment I've had so far, keep up the wonderful work  :grin:
 
Has anyone suggested Claimants leading peasant revolts instead of random adventurers yet? Is it even possible to script that?
 
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