Dena Pirates: Superhuman Dark Age Special Forces?

[Anthropoid]

We all know that this mod is rather difficult, right? I don't know what you guys have done to make the AI far more potent, but it IS!  and for the most part that is a very, very good thing. If mastering the game on Easiest difficulty is challening enough, then mastering it on Medium offers still more replay value!

However, I was just kinda wondering if I was alone in feeling that some of the adversaries in the game seem just a tad bit superhuman?

I'm not like a 'new' player to M&B, I played the original quite a bit, and have played a number of mods. Warband I've played less, but even there, I've been back to playing Brytenwalda for Warband for several weeks now. Probably scores of hours of play just with Brytenwalkda 1.391.

My toon is now level 20, 15 strength, wearing a full set of Dena Armor and using a two handed ax at 224 profiiency . .  My party of 66 includes somethign like: 3 Franks and a Frankish ship captain; 12 Heavy Milite Infantry; ~8 professional mercenaries; another 10 or 15 of some other variety of heavy mercenary infantry; 10 or so medium infantry; 3 Heavy Equite Cavalry and sundry light infantry and archers.

Nonetheless, I'm still using Easiest difficulty settings across the board and not feeling any strong need to step these up in order to feel challenged just yet.

So I encounter a caravan getting torn up by some bad guys and impulsively decide to join in before I look to see they are Dena Pirates, let alone how many they were. 70 Dena pirates versus 80 of me and my allies. Good battle ground (mostly flat but I've got a good slight incline to fight from top of and it is open so I can distract a large fraction of the pirates while my infantry deals with the advance trickle of them. Make a long story short, they massacre us.

I guess I'm just mostly curious: am I the only relatively competent player who gets totally owned by this mod if you don't pick your fights VERY carefully? If not, what the hell are you other guys doing!? 

 

[krisvk]

My tactic for dena raiders is to ride my donkey/horse to battle and lance them with a long spear (does not work every time)
and try to distract the main force while my men kill the few stragglers.

Edit.

although i mostly just avoids them

 

[Aethelflaed]

My tactic for dena raiders is to ride my donkey/horse to battle and lance them with a long spear (does not work every time)
and try to distract the main force while my men kill the few stragglers.

Edit.

although i mostly just avoids them

Got almost the same tactic. Infantry in a shield wall, archers behind them and then riding around the Danes and tickle them with my dawn ray (cause it is longer than the usual spear...). I leave my cavalry behind, because they get killed even if they just follow you. With a little bit of luck you can overrun an almost equal force of Danes even with lower level forces... but still a dangerous task to attack Dena raiders. If they break into your lines, they will slaughter your troops....

 

[EuchreJack]

I'm not like a 'new' player to M&B, I played the original quite a bit, and have played a number of mods. Warband I've played less, but even there, I've been back to playing Brytenwalda for Warband for several weeks now. Probably scores of hours of play just with Brytenwalkda 1.391.

Warband is A LOT harder than standard M&B, and this mod is A LOT harder than standard Warband.  So you're in good company!

For fun, I sometimes go back to the original M&B after playing Warband, this mod, or other Warband mods.  You'll feel like a superhuman, and be amazed at how much easier everything is in the original.  After playing quite a bit of Warband and this mod, you'll be able to crush everything in sight in the original!

 

[Herbiazors]

My tactic is usually hack and slash

 

[Anthropoid]

I'm not like a 'new' player to M&B, I played the original quite a bit, and have played a number of mods. Warband I've played less, but even there, I've been back to playing Brytenwalda for Warband for several weeks now. Probably scores of hours of play just with Brytenwalkda 1.391.

Warband is A LOT harder than standard M&B, and this mod is A LOT harder than standard Warband.  So you're in good company!

For fun, I sometimes go back to the original M&B after playing Warband, this mod, or other Warband mods.  You'll feel like a superhuman, and be amazed at how much easier everything is in the original.  After playing quite a bit of Warband and this mod, you'll be able to crush everything in sight in the original!

Thanks for the reality check EucherJack.

That was primarily what I needed

 

[Funkeh]

In my latest campaign I have taken over South Seaxe, Cantware and am mobilising to take on East Seaxe. During this time I have fought off hundreds of Franks and perhaps a hundred and fifty Dena Pirates.

Franks are rather manageable due to less armour on the whole, however they tend to have some missile troops which makes soloing them pot luck (sometimes you can destroy them with little consequence, other times 5 stones and 2 angons have stuck your body like a pin cushion).

Dena Pirates however have the best equipment and weapon proficiencies/skills available making them absolute terrors. The only reliable way to beat parties that number over 25 (I have fought a couple that numbered 80, and even with my elite-ish army at this point, I suffered crazy casualties on 3/4 damage and microing my men to my best ability), is to find a hill, dismount everyone. Unleash javelins and such to break some shields/never bring archers as they are only effective as melee infantry here. Then run behind and swing an axe into as many exposed heads  as possible. Dull but effective.

Dena Pirates also seem far more adept at feinting and blocking attacks which makes fighting on foot against more than one opponent very difficult as they can wear you down while even more enemies are attracted to you.

Expect every light infantryman that engages to the front of a Dane to die, and the majority of medium infantry too. Always be wary of an ambush as they can actually be devastating against 60+ heavy infantry, even against Rigwigas and Duguthas.

Often times the issue of little reward for effort comes to play against large Dena parties. To beat Dena's you need more troops than them (unless for some reason you walk around with only elite infantry, thus not making use of your training skill to get more medium/heavy infantry), and in this mod, this means that your rewards for taking out some of the toughest bastards in Britain is a few crude helmets and some bent javelins, although sometimes you can get a mail coat or the very prized Scanza helmets/Ship Captain helmets.

The upside is if you attack them with 200 light infantry as I chose to do once, then at the end you have 30 medium infantry, which is quite a good trade seeing as it takes like 10000 xp to make a Geburas into a Geneata/Geoguth.

 

[Anthropoid]

Thanks so much for the comments guys! Very instructive and confirms what I had more-or-less observed.

Great mod

 

[Hypno Toad]

I have a feeling 50 or so theows would absolutely wreck 25 dena raiders.

 

[armyman_83]

Crush them with numbers! Once you get high enough renown 250-400 troops will smash most things easily....but other warbands of course.

 

[Kendoman]

I use an interesting tactic....I use magic I pray to Odin, and kiss Thor's hammer and then die like the rest of them.

 

[Anthropoid]

At level 21 with 1h and 2h proficiency ~250, I'm finally _really_ starting to enjoy my game. Still using all Easiest settings, but then I still cannot consistently clear an entire Arena match so that tells me it is still somewhat challening. Indeed, I would say I only manage to be last man standing in the arena about 10 or 15% of the matches. I'm guessing easily 30% of all my XP has been from arena grinding, but as I progress it actually becomes less grindy and more fun 

Very fun to take out 35 arena combatants and be last man standing with a full health bar, though more commonly it is like 24 kills and 5% health left!

 

[nox]

With dena pirates my goal is to get them squarely stuck on a shield wall and then hit them from behind with my companions and self.

Even from behind with an elite heavy axe (piercing), they take several hits to take down. 

 

[Kruel]

My game is played on hardest difficulty settings. The first thing I do against the tougher groups of heavy infantry/elite infantry to minimize casualties is I go into the battles with 2-4x their numbers (made up of mostly 3rd and 2nd tier infantry).  This seems most effective against enemy parties of 40 or less. Usually you don't want to engage in the forested areas, as the trees just get in your way.

Next I find some favourable ground and set up my infantry in a shield wall on the top of the hill or rise. I wait for them to approach, either beside my line if I'm without cavalry, or in a flanking position if I have some. Just before they get in javelin range of my infantry I ride out to distract some. Due to superior numbers and concentration of forces, the javelins do some decent damage, breaking shields and killing a few, generally softening them up.

Now I move in with cavalry if I have them, catching them from behind and disrupting them further.  Against Dena Raiders in particular I try to personally target mostly the distracted targets, as even while wielding a Dawn Ray the ones with spears can be dangerous.  At this point their formation is probably a mess and they're running all over the place, so I'll charge my infantry in to finish them off.

Using these tactics I'll usually only lose a handful of troops.  Often when freed prisoners are included I'll come out ahead.

 

[qmax]

It can help to ride out and harass them early with a long spear and try and get their formation strung out.  Then when you have your troops attack, they can gang up on smaller numbers and win but with heavy losses.  The bottom line is Dena's are tough and you need to significantly outnumber them and try to keep them from attacking in a mass.

 

[Roig_Cordedrac]

You should use elite troops to confront them. If you don't have almost the same number of elite troops than enemy denas, you should avoid the battle. And for the fighting i use hammer and anvil tactics: infantry to hit their shields while archers punish their flank, and then cavalry to hit their backs, and i go running around killing every dena who tries to kill my archers.
By the way, i personally love the balance of Brytenwalda as it is now, i play with all settings on normal and no quitting without saving. In regular Warband playing on hardest settings, when you reach certain level outlaws are boring to fight... In fact, it feels like if they are just waiting there for your swadian knights to crush them. The most fun on Brytenwalda is that even when you have a strong army and your own fiefs etc. you still a weak human being who can be killed with a single blow to the head, that forces you to stay alert all the time and think before making your move.

 

[Noveras]

I have like 30 archers and let they let lose hell to them. Than my infantry around 20 or 15 will hold the shield wall while the enemy attack and than my Calvary around 5 - 8 will attack from rear and as soon as my calvary hit the enemy I will order my infantry to charge while my archer still hold their position. As soon as the enemy move back I will order my infantry to hold ground and make a new shield wall and my calvary will be send to hold the rear again and let my archer to lose another hell to the enemy while they are regrouping.

Repeat this steps until all the enemy is dead. I will usually lose around 3 - 10 men even against Dena warrior + I have level 5 surgery. High surgery level is very important in Brytenwalda because it is hard to get good troops and training even with level 5 is pretty useless.

HIGH STAT TROOPS ARE LIKE GOLD IN Brytenwalda!!! MAKE SURE THEY SURVIVE EACH BATTLE!!!!

 

[Funkeh]

I have used xp cheats to get a Dugutha to a Hearthwaru and it took something like 37k xp