Crossbows too weak?

[mrtats]

There is no way that crossbows would match bows in multiplayer. My suggestion is to nerf bows and maybe buff crossbow's damage a little more.

Have you seen the spam that is vlandian crossbowmen in TDM.

 

[sneekpeekz]

Armor piercing is a tad overhyped. You get about the same result with a longbow as with a powerful crossbow.

 

[Earth Dragon]

The biggest thing they simulate correctly is that bows are harder to stay prepped and targeted. Think of crossbows as a vastly superior law enforcement/check point weapon.

But where my problem lies with bows in particular is there accuracy starts way too high. That’s what I keep coming back to. There needs to be more drift. When firing arched shots whether wind takes it or what not. That’s also where bolts had an advantage: less surface area for the shot to be impeded in what range it had.

Hopefully this will get sorted out

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Crossbows are in a bad spot currently, their attribute gives you access to bow skill so why not use bow? Even character background that gives crossbow skill don't start you with a crossbow and bows improve much more with skill up then crossbow.

I think if they have skilsl grouped together they should not lump all ranged together but have them go with other types of skills that make sense.
Like med + engineer + cross bow, a bonus from INT would make since..... but who knows what kind of skill system we'll end up with, I don't think the current one can last.

 

[Ggoddkkiller]

It is correct crossbows weren't penetrating better, here is a very good example: (Mail after 9:12)


So it is completely wrong assuming only plate armour could stop arrows rather arrowheads were performing in a very wide range and even mail armour was enough to bounce some of them!! So what we really need isn't buffing nor nerfing things rather a complete armour-arrowhead overhaul..

 

[Forlorn Hope]

So what we really need isn't buffing nor nerfing things rather a complete armour-arrowhead overhaul..

That would be really cool actually. Would be great if you could hold x to bring up a radial menu to specify what type of arrow you wanted to use and the damage inflicted would reflect the relationship of that choice against the armour type you hit.

 

[TrashMan]

Before we start: lets make a few things clear:
-Battanian Fian Champions are currently unmatched if it comes to ranged units
-Arrows have more Ammo then Bolts
-Bows shoot faster then Crossbows
-Bows have higher range then Crossbows.

Now lets think: why did humanity even invent the crossbows?

1.: its easy to use of course. while archers needed lots of training, a crossbow could be used by anyone who is strong enough to load it. (there were loading mechanisms too)
2.: and more important: their armor piercing! i cant stress this out enough. as far as i can tell, there is NO armor penetration in the game right now. i tested it with several crossbows and i ALWAYS was dealing more dmg with the bow. (tried both with high [400+] skill). so the only reason right now you could use crossbows are the pavese shields. but there is no command to tell the troops to place them (yes, shocking information: pavese shields have this weird shape because they are placeable shields to give ranged units cover).

i think they really should implement armor penetration for the crossbow and maces. i think 50% for the crossbow and 25% for the maces, but thats balance talking and we all know there is never an end to balancing a game.

Nope.

Crossbows don't have magical armor-piercing properties.
Any crossbow vs longbow test I've seen shows little difference in actual power.

The reason crossbow was used is twofold:
1) accurate. Think of it as a medieval sniper rifle
2) small in size, didn't require you to use so much space, especially VERTICAL space, so it was MUCH better for sieges, as you could shoot from cover.
With longbows, you have to expose yourself to shoot. If you're shooting from the parapet/castle wall, you have to lean over to be able to fire. A longbow also tires you out faster.
But the crossbow is SLOW.

 

[BattanianDruid]

Another big advantage crossbows have over bows that hasn't been mentioned yet is that you can aim them from behind cover much more easily.

Crossbows were generally better for siege defense than bows because you could poke it out from over a merlon and shoot down at the enemy while much of your body was protected. A longbowman could only do this from certain angles if they could do it at all because longbows need a specific stance to use. You could also crouch and fire as you don't need to be standing to use a crossbow.

Bows had an advantage in field battles though, as they had a far superior rate of fire while retaining similar range and penetration.

Also. The Battanian Fian Champion should be unmatched when it comes to foot archers. They are the only noble-tier foot archer unit in the game. That makes them very rare and difficult to amass.

 

[Ggoddkkiller]

That would be really cool actually. Would be great if you could hold x to bring up a radial menu to specify what type of arrow you wanted to use and the damage inflicted would reflect the relationship of that choice against the armour type you hit.

Yeah, it would be really cool and fun to use and it would also fix many armour problems but im not sure Devs can add such a system into the game as im sure a lot of people will fail to use it correctly then complain about it as ''you butchered archery etc''
This is the problem of official development as they have to make majority happy somehow and there are also more limitations like age restrictions which is why there will be never any dismemberments in official versions so i guess we have to wait for a mod for such a system..

 

[bearmans]

Crossbows in my experience are definitely currently underpowered vs. bows. Although, I'm not sure whether I think it's because crossbows are too weak or bows are too strong. It's really common to land 100+ damage shots with a bow, and accuracy seems to be about equivalent even with only modest bow skill.

 

[Carabus]

(...) i tested it with several crossbows and i ALWAYS was dealing more dmg with the bow. (tried both with high [400+] skill). (...)

With 400+ skill it is quite obvious you were dealing more damage with bow because bow skill increases damage, while crossbow skill doesn't.
What is even the point of testing in such unrealistic scenario? Noone in the game can have 400 skill in anything, because of skill caps. You would need 15 points in attribute to have a hard skill cap at 400, which is not achievable either I think.

 

[Nickname]

so the only reason right now you could use crossbows are the pavese shields. but there is no command to tell the troops to place them (yes, shocking information: pavese shields have this weird shape because they are placeable shields to give ranged units cover).

Even if they don't deploy pavise, they should turn while reloading, like so

 

[sermen]

Crossbowmen with their big pavise shields should turn back to the enemy when reloading, as they did in some Warband mods. It was the only point of their heavy shields.

I tried to manually keep them facing opposite side (F2) but after they turn around to shoot - they still reload facing the enemy - and being obliterated.

 

[mangalore]

...

But the crossbow is SLOW.

That most likely does not matter because you usually did not fire bows at will either (someone paid and thus counted those arrows, you know) and 90+% of all combat was sieges and skirmishes, in both cases a crossbow is more handy than a bow.
That said there always a bit conflation what crossbow is meant (with the bow people imply everyone used heavy longbow level type of bows which was also untrue) because the high level military crossbows were pretty sophisticated kit all by itsself and by no means the kind of ****ty munition crossbows you handed out to peasants you did not like.

So within the term crossbow and the term bow you have the difference of pistol calibre to a rifle calibre so their performance was extremely diverse.

 

[Forlorn Hope]

That most likely does not matter because you usually did not fire bows at will either (someone paid and thus counted those arrows, you know).

Personally I think that's probably untrue except for the initial command to shoot. In movies and things you see the commands given repeatedly ("nock, draw, loose!") but I suspect this is for dramatic visual effect. The priority of archers in battle is to get as many effective arrows in the air as possible as quickly as possible in order to saturate the intended target area. If you limit them to shooting at the speed of given commands then all you do is slow down the more efficient archers to no benefit. No point paying for arrows that don't get used because all your archers got ridden down, after all.

So within the term crossbow and the term bow you have the difference of pistol calibre to a rifle calibre so their performance was extremely diverse.

It would be really cool if at some point we got some heavy windlass crossbows added to the game for a really slow but powerful snipey kind of role, maybe even have them capable of dealing reduced damage through a shield at close range or something for a bit of extra spice and variation in weapon choice.

 

[paladinx333]

A basic bolt pouch hold 20 bolts while a basic quiver holds 27 arrows. That alone is enough for people to choose bows over crossbows.

 

[Owen Wulfson]

I'm hoping they eventually upgrade the crossbow to fit its own niche in Bannerlord warfare. A higher pierce for each bolt would go a long way to making up for how little there are in a pack.

I'm currently rigging my next character to be a Vlandian Crossbow Commander, with a 20% Cultural Exp boost (when it finally works) eventually supplemented with a +5% exp boost for ranged units as well as a 10% faster loading for ranged troops. It helps that I can practice with the crossbow in Vlandian arenas. Day 3 of the campaign and I have the crossbow skill up to 56 and it should get easier to level with later updates. The final ability, Bone Bolt - minus 1 moral for every enemy you kill with a crossbow, would be awesome in a siege battle for just sending the enemy packing.

Even if it's not as a good as a bow, I still love the aesthetics and that "click" sound when it's locked and loaded.