Crossbow on Horseback ?

[Selothi]

So yeah, I've been experimenting with this. See, I thought that given the power crossbows have, on horseback they'd be pretty effective. Well, I got my hands on a Masterwork Light Crossbow. I was wondering how it might work on horseback. I try, and realise it is utterly pathetic. The weapon is supposed to deal 39 damage. Attacking a bunch of Vaegir Footmen deserters, i could score no more than thirty on horseback. I have crossbow skill cheated up to 300+, so that can't be a problem.

Moreso, while one headshot dealt 91 damage, most of them deal no more than 50. Disappointing. And finally, the range of that weapon in Native is pitiable.

Basically, even on foot, I find that the bow is far superior: why do I get more damage from it ? And besides, it shoots faster, so where is the problem ? Something that deals twenty more damage points should be lethal, but other than in the hand of the AI, I really don't see what's the point in using it aside from having no skill requirement.

 

[FrisianDude]

No skill requirement is a pretty nice bonus, I'd think. But, it's underpowered. (As are other ranged weapons!)

 

[Selothi]

Maybe so, but a bow still seems much more efficient. Aside from the skill requirement, you have something that fires easily twice as fast, has good range usually, and twice as much ammo in the quivers. So, really, it seems rather that the crossbow is underpowered; but I'm loathe to edit it, as that would mean Rhodoks would have sniper rifles ! Well, we'll see ... if i do it in the tEatRC mod, it'd be alright, as very few units use crossbows. Hmm ...

 

[Swadius 2.0]

You also need about 12 total skill points for the weapon to become minimally effective. 16+, if you want to be proficient at it. There's also horse archery and powerdraw that's required.

Powerdraw shouldn't even affect damage on a bow; a bow doesn't shoot the arrow any faster the harder you pull it back. There's a maximum draw length and going beyond that it going to seriously damage the bow, not make the shot any more powerful.

 

[Selothi]

Yeah yeah, the crossbow is the unskilled man's bow basically, but it still should have more power than what it has at present IMO.

Anyway, un poco problemo. I changed the damage to ten points more in the editor, but the bolts do cutting damage now, and i've never had any clue how the hell one changes damage types. Could someone enlighten me on how to set it back to "pierce" rather than "cut" ?

 

[FrisianDude]

Should be possible in the Item Editor?

Edit; it is possible in the IE, just scroll down a bit with the Bolts selected and then you'll notice a dropdown box with "thrust damage" in front of it and another one with "cut damage" in front of that. Simply use the one with "thrust damage" and select "pierce" with it.

 

[Selothi]

I don't have that ! I-game, it's the crossbow that displays its damage: 49c. And in the IE, I can't find anything like that, just thrust and swing damage. Gah, I suck at this kind of thing.

 

[FrisianDude]

Then look up the crossbow and change the same thing there? 

 

[Ringwraith #5]

Powerdraw shouldn't even affect damage on a bow; a bow doesn't shoot the arrow any faster the harder you pull it back. There's a maximum draw length and going beyond that it going to seriously damage the bow, not make the shot any more powerful.

Yeah, that's done a bit counter-intuitively in M&B, but it does make sense if you think about it. See, the minimum PD requirement is just that, the minimum you need to be able to shoot the bow at all. Then as you add more PD you draw the bow more and more, until you come to the minimum + 4 damage bonus cap, which denotes the point beyond which you can't draw the bow any further without damaging it. So even if you have more PD it won't do you any good, because the bow is at its limit.

 

[Selothi]

Bah, I have the drop-down box, but when i click it, it gives me blank. No option. Damn this !

 

[FrisianDude]

Have you openend item_kinds.txt with it and selected the crossbow?

 

[Selothi]

Yes yes, look:
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u342/Selothi/ItemEditor****y.jpg

 

[FrisianDude]

What the fudge? 

It should be there. It is there in my Item Editor.
Hey? Why are those modifiers listed with numbers with you, by the way?

 

[Swadius 2.0]

I don't suppose that you're using the latest version?

 

[Selothi]

Don't know, I think it was after I went to version 1.010 ? I wonder too, but I'm not really bothered with it. I was confused when that originally happened, I do agree. Is there, like, a new version of the item Editor or some crap like that ? Doubt it ...

EDIT: I have no idea, I downloaded it a few months back, maybe September ? Actually, the icon of my desktop says 30th of October.

 

[Daeghen]

Crossbows would be better if they ignored a significant amount of armor.  Requiring no skill points is their only advantage;  It allows you to pick off some archers during sieges, I suppose.  I'd still use a bow.

Bows are rated in terms of pounds at maximum draw.  You can suspend disbelief by imagining that each bow's true limit is beyond its listed powerdraw requirement.  This actually fits in with the game description, since powerdraw only provides benefit of 4+powerdraw requirement.  So, we assume that a longbow, with a powerdraw req of 3, reaches peak strength from an archer strong enough to pull it with a draw of 3+4=7.  The 3 req is just a minimum for it to be effective at all - pretend that 3 is the point at which the arrow is stabilized from the nock to the arrow rest, because pulling the string back just one inch doesn't allow for reasonable aiming.

-Daeghen

 

[Swadius 2.0]

Then you do not have the current version of native, the item number is a testimony to that.

 

[FrisianDude]

EDIT: I have no idea, I downloaded it a few months back, maybe September ? Actually, the icon of my desktop says 30th of October.

Mine says 15 July. 

 

[Selothi]

Hmm, I'll download and see really.

EDIT: New download, works fine ... No matter !

 

[Swadius 2.0]

My light crossbow number is 401, his is 373. He's either not using the current native version, or he's taken out items.