Couched lance vs lance thrusting

[Attacksmurfen]

I have noted that when fighting with lance, on the horseback, people tend to use lance thrusting a lot.
It seems like it's rather easy to kill anyone with one thrust while riding with some speed.
Note that I mean when you actively use the attack button to thust, not when you just charge with a couched lance. The couched lance attack is fine (and I would like to see more people use it).
Now, this is not really accurate, nor is it good. The reasons for this are:

- When you ride and strech out your hand to thrust, you don't have anything supporting your lance, except one hand, thus your lance is more likely to bounce/glide off it's target than when couched.
On comparison, a couched lance has the weight of the rider and the horse behind it, so it will continue forward until it breaks (or rips the opponent apart).
An armored soldier will not be hurt by a lance thrust, a shield will not be damaged if the lance doesn't have the supporting mass behind it.
Of course, there is always a chance that a lance hits a weak spot, the throat i. e. which would mean a direct kill anyway.

Suggestion: make the lance thrust weaker when on horseback. If there is a high speed impact, give the lance a certain chance of making a direct kill anyway.
This would make couched lance attacks used a lot more.

// Attacksmurfen

 

[Lord Rust]

My god, are you saying it's not like it is irl? the horror.

Learn to thrust, afk combat is for singleplayer, in multiplayer you don't get anything for free, we won't be nerfing the game just because you're not doing well at it.

 

[Attacksmurfen]

My god, are you saying it's not like it is irl? the horror.

Learn to thrust, afk combat is for singleplayer, in multiplayer you don't get anything for free, we won't be nerfing the game just because you're not doing well at it.

Well, I've been playing since I don't know when, so no, I can capitalize on the games rules just like everybody else. That's how I could start this thread to start with.
My suggestion is to make more use of the couched lance, whith the small bonus of making the game more realistic.

By the way, I'm sorry but who are "we"?
Who are you? A ,dev? Or are you are just a ...troll..?

 

[Lord Rust]

My god, are you saying it's not like it is irl? the horror.

Learn to thrust, afk combat is for singleplayer, in multiplayer you don't get anything for free, we won't be nerfing the game just because you're not doing well at it.

Well, I've been playing since I don't know when, so no, I can capitalize on the games rules just like everybody else. That's how I could start this thread to start with.
My suggestion is to make more use of the couched lance, whith the small bonus of making the game more realistic.

By the way, I'm sorry but who are "we"?
Who are you? A ,dev? Or are you are just a ...troll..?

We the people of Mount and Blade who don't cry NERF NERF when we get lanced in the face.

 

[Sir Nigel]

My god, are you saying it's not like it is irl? the horror.

Learn to thrust, afk combat is for singleplayer, in multiplayer you don't get anything for free, we won't be nerfing the game just because you're not doing well at it.

Well, I've been playing since I don't know when, so no, I can capitalize on the games rules just like everybody else. That's how I could start this thread to start with.
My suggestion is to make more use of the couched lance, whith the small bonus of making the game more realistic.

By the way, I'm sorry but who are "we"?
Who are you? A ,dev? Or are you are just a ...troll..?

We the people of Mount and Blade who don't cry NERF NERF when we get lanced in the face.

I don't use to cry nerf or anything else, but don't include me in your club. If you do not agree with him just say it without insulting.

 

[Highelfwarrior]

My god, are you saying it's not like it is irl? the horror.

Learn to thrust, afk combat is for singleplayer, in multiplayer you don't get anything for free, we won't be nerfing the game just because you're not doing well at it.

I think you should refrain from posting like this, or refrain from posting at all. First of all, all I've ever seen you do is lancing... So if you can't give unbiased opinions, don't give them at all. It's just like those nord-lovers unable to accept that throwing axes, for example, definitely need some tweaking.

I've gotten good at the thrusting-a-lance thing myself, so you argument there is moot. I can easily get to the top of the scoreboard if all I do is get a lance an thrust all round long. (but it's just boring as ****, to be honest)

Attacksmurfen is completely and 100% right and his suggestion is one that should definitely be heard. Couching a lance has always been better than thrusting. I don't think in single player M&B I've thrusted my lance once after I learnt the 'real' way to do it, ie. couching. I have no idea why Taleworlds decided to make couching entirely useless, but I humbly think it was a bad decision. Couch lance should still be insta-kill when hit at a proper speed, but it should be more difficult to aim. To couch properly right now (or aim your lance properly) you have to go first person, at the moment, which I think would be a good way to even out the advantage of cavalry-lance players. (In first person you have less scope of what is going on around you - so you're more prone to get hit in the back or shot by an archer)

 

[Róisín]

Ironically, when you actually tilt in real life, you thrust (using your whole body) with the lance just before impact.

Personally, I think the nerf that's needed is to have lances get knocked out of hands or broken when someone does something that puts an excessive amount of torque on it, like riding at full speed and thrusting at someone to the side.  If the lance finds purchase there's no way you're going to have the grip to pull it out.  Also, too many high-damage hits, especially against shields, and the lance should break.

 

[alh_p]

Suggestion: make the lance thrust weaker when on horseback. If there is a high speed impact, give the lance a certain chance of making a direct kill anyway.
This would make couched lance attacks used a lot more.

I think this is a fair point -even from the singleplayer game (only got my invite today).

But, I would be cautious about overdoing the change to thrust damage. The mechanics you describe don't quite make sense to me.

I'd argue that thrusting a long lance should be unfeasible/ineffective, but that shorter/lighter spears should be "thrustable".

A heavy lance would aim to maximise couch damage and a light lance/spear would aim to maximise thrust damage.

Perhaps there should be a cap to the extra damage added by speed, when thrusting a light lance on horseback. Long/heavy lances should likewise see a reduction in the thrust damage they can impart. Somehting like this would better differentiate between the two weapon classes and be more interesting as well as "realistic"?

 

[Highelfwarrior]

Ironically, when you actually tilt in real life, you thrust (using your whole body) with the lance just before impact.

Personally, I think the nerf that's needed is to have lances get knocked out of hands or broken when someone does something that puts an excessive amount of torque on it, like riding at full speed and thrusting at someone to the side.  If the lance finds purchase there's no way you're going to have the grip to pull it out.  Also, too many high-damage hits, especially against shields, and the lance should break.

That would be a good solution yes, but in terms of work for Taleworlds it'd be a hell of a lot more, though.

 

[Dutchornator]

To be honest ive always loved the way it is at the moment,  i use the crouch n lance technic most of the time specially charging towards a lord at the start  but you still need that thrust power.
I can see what your trying to say by using this in multiplayer, i mean it will be good to see most ppl riding while crouched lanced but to me experiance players will be using crouched lance most of the time because we know will knock out the other opponent off da horse in one hit or atleast break his shield. thats my opinion anyways 

 

[Lord Rust]

My god, are you saying it's not like it is irl? the horror.

Learn to thrust, afk combat is for singleplayer, in multiplayer you don't get anything for free, we won't be nerfing the game just because you're not doing well at it.

I think you should refrain from posting like this, or refrain from posting at all. First of all, all I've ever seen you do is lancing... So if you can't give unbiased opinions, don't give them at all. It's just like those nord-lovers unable to accept that throwing axes, for example, definitely need some tweaking.

I've gotten good at the thrusting-a-lance thing myself, so you argument there is moot. I can easily get to the top of the scoreboard if all I do is get a lance an thrust all round long. (but it's just boring as ****, to be honest)

Attacksmurfen is completely and 100% right and his suggestion is one that should definitely be heard. Couching a lance has always been better than thrusting. I don't think in single player M&B I've thrusted my lance once after I learnt the 'real' way to do it, ie. couching. I have no idea why Taleworlds decided to make couching entirely useless, but I humbly think it was a bad decision. Couch lance should still be insta-kill when hit at a proper speed, but it should be more difficult to aim. To couch properly right now (or aim your lance properly) you have to go first person, at the moment, which I think would be a good way to even out the advantage of cavalry-lance players. (In first person you have less scope of what is going on around you - so you're more prone to get hit in the back or shot by an archer)

I've never seen you top any scoreboards, so don't give me the "*yawn* I could pwn but pro's challenge themselves so they dont", and thrusting in singleplayer kills far faster than couching, anyway, couching is afk killing and you can't possibly say that should be buffed so that the best way to kill is to not even -touch- the attack button?

Give me a break, skilled infantery does very well vs mounted men, so cavalry lancers are hardly overpowered. I hear a lot of people whining about couching being underpowered, how the hell do you buff it then? you can't, you'd have to nerf other tactics, tactics that involve using the attack button, you know, that button EVERY other type of combat in this game is done by.

Couched lancing is not nor will EVER be competative in mount and blade, and if it ever becomes it, its because we nerfed everything down so much its the only viable tactic left, learn to thrust if you want to play a mounted lancer, you're not fighting the AI anymore.

 

[RF Nigth]

I haven't played warband but i see that most use the thrust.
Cause the couched lance is more likely to fail in Mp you cant use the shield
If the shield was raised at same time it would be more that use couched lance

And perhaps when you get at the speed when couched lance is on
the camera would move to horse head and you will see the tip off the lance
And you can change the lance whit the mouse

 

[Lord Rust]

I haven't played warband but i see that most use the thrust.
Cause the couched lance is more likely to fail in Mp you cant use the shield
If the shield was raised at same time it would be more that use couched lance

And perhaps when you get at the speed when couched lance is on
the camera would move to horse head and you will see the tip off the lance
And you can change the lance whit the mouse

A thrusted lance gets 5-10 yards extra range and you have more control over the aim, thats why its used, if two skilled players meet on horse with lances, the one thrusting will always beat the one couching simply because of range and accuracy, you can veer your horse out of the path of the couched lance and slam your spear in their face, it takes timing and practice but who'd want that in a game, lets have every new player afk around with a couched lance and we can randomly pwn each other as we remove all aspects of skill and practice from cavalry combat, that wont provoke shouts of nerfs oh no.

 

[Ursca]

Frankly, El-Diablito, whatever the truth in your words, you still act like a complete dickhead. Just give it a rest. Stop being a twat.

 

[Lord Rust]

Frankly, El-Diablito, whatever the truth in your words, you still act like a complete dickhead. Just give it a rest. Stop being a twat.

The truth hurts, and nothing is more dickish than the swarm of nerf nerf posts we're getting lately.

 

[alh_p]

Frankly, El-Diablito, whatever the truth in your words, you still act like a complete dickhead. Just give it a rest. Stop being a twat.

The truth hurts, and nothing is more dickish than the swarm of nerf nerf posts we're getting lately.

Oh you're cool you are.

 

[Highelfwarrior]

I've never seen you top any scoreboards, so don't give me the "*yawn* I could pwn but pro's challenge themselves so they dont",

This isn't an e-peen contest here, but obviously you haven't been looking. Whenever I abuse the lance & mount it's extremely easy to get up there.

and thrusting in singleplayer kills far faster than couching, anyway

No, no, it does not.

You're just being over-defensive because it's your only means of fighting, I guess. Thrusting a lance is highly unrealistic, and couching is the way it's supposed to be done. If you can't acknowledge this fact,, and the fact that lancing is highly overpowered in sole terms of gameplay, then you should have your eyes brain checked.

Take a look at this random video I just looked up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z64AzHIdgKw

Do you REALLY think, in any circumstances, a lance could be actively reached out and thrusted into an object without horrible results?

A thrusted lance gets 5-10 yards extra range and you have more control over the aim, thats why its used, if two skilled players meet on horse with lances, the one thrusting will always beat the one couching simply because of range and accuracy, you can veer your horse out of the path of the couched lance and slam your spear in their face, it takes timing and practice but who'd want that in a game, lets have every new player afk around with a couched lance and we can randomly pwn each other as we remove all aspects of skill and practice from cavalry combat, that wont provoke shouts of nerfs oh no.

You just literally said couching has less accuracy and range - yet, thrusting requires more skill? WTH?

 

[Ursca]

The truth hurts, and nothing is more dickish than the swarm of nerf nerf posts we're getting lately.

If we're talking about 'the truth', perhaps we can start by talking about why cavalry players are consistantly at the top of the scoreboards. 

 

[Lord Rust]

Couching is just ramming a spear forward with hardly any control over it, so yes, it doesn't require skill and thats why its not effective.

And are you actually arguing that we should model warband after real life realism? In that case swords should break when slashed at a riders shield when moving, cheaper swords should break after a few melee's, being charged by a horse should incapacitate you for the rest of the battle and need I go on?

As for the e-peen, i'm merely objecting to your not so veiled "omg n00b using n00b tactics" routine, I play the way I enjoy and I dare say the fact that I spend so much time doing what i'm talking about, if anything gives me more of a right to speak about it, it's something i've learned a lot about since I started the beta.

If couched lances became the fotm tactic horses would be truly boring, and i'd just swap to pike infantery and laugh my ass ragged beating up couchers, because there is no way that can EVER be good before you nerf *every* other tactic in the game.

 

[Lord Rust]

The truth hurts, and nothing is more dickish than the swarm of nerf nerf posts we're getting lately.

If we're talking about 'the truth', perhaps we can start by talking about why cavalry players are consistantly at the top of the scoreboards. 

Simple, they move faster on the field than other units, so obviously they can score more kills thats just simple logic. A footman spends twice or three times the time of a cavalry man reaching his next target, so obviously a skilled player will get more kills being cavalry, not because he does better in battle, but because he finds his next victim faster. I have far more trouble killing a skilled infantry man than a skilled cavalry man, but it's very easy to tell which infantry man knows how to handle cav and who on the field is an easy victim.