Community Feedback-based EARLY ACCESS ROADMAP - ready for you, Taleworlds!

Does this roadmap represent your basic wants for Bannerlord?

  • Yes

    Votes: 257 86.8%
  • No

    Votes: 39 13.2%

  • Total voters
    296

Currently viewing this thread:

RJ_Sera

Veteran
An option to make a year long 365days(like warband, can be on or off)
Allow player custom equipment for troops(limit by faction culture)
Saddle can hold 1 bag of arrow or bolt(i see this one in three kingdom film :grin:)
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
I have next to no hope that this game will ever not suck.

But if bumping a thread like this makes TW see their failure a little more clearly, then it's worth it. They might have a major shift in strategy once they realize that those of us who are pissed off are the majority, not the obsequious SOON-worshippers.

Maybe. They could just be cashing checks until a decade from now when they release M&B3, hoping that everyone who remembers what they did to us will have been driven to suicide by then.
 

Spinozart1

Sergeant at Arms
I have next to no hope that this game will ever not suck.

But if bumping a thread like this makes TW see their failure a little more clearly, then it's worth it. They might have a major shift in strategy once they realize that those of us who are pissed off are the majority, not the obsequious SOON-worshippers.
What majority?
Around 200 "yes" voters in this english speaking thread against +100K copies sold around the world...
And for me the game do not "s..k".
 

madnessario

Squire
92.88% of the player base stopped playing in May 2020 and never came back.

There's your majority, compadre.

Ah the circles of this forum! Huge drop off happen after almost all games on Steam. Don't cherry pick.

edit: No idea what you are discussing previously on this thread (last pages), I did not read!
 
Ah the circles of this forum! Huge drop off happen after almost all games on Steam. Don't cherry pick.
Yes, but that other arguments was "X people bought the game and didn't complain", which is more stupid as we can't know what they thought about the game - we only know that most of them moved on. Out of boredom or disgust? Who knows.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
92.88% of the player base stopped playing in May 2020 and never came back.

There's your majority, compadre.
That's normal for a single-player game though.

Yes, but that other arguments was "X people bought the game and didn't complain", which is more stupid as we can't know what they thought about the game - we only know that most of them moved on. Out of boredom or disgust? Who knows.
Probably because most people aren't like the super-users. They move on to the next hyped-up release.
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
Ah the circles of this forum! Huge drop off happen after almost all games on Steam. Don't cherry pick.

edit: No idea what you are discussing previously on this thread (last pages), I did not read!
That's normal for a single-player game though.


Probably because most people aren't like the super-users. They move on to the next hyped-up release.
Wrong. Extremely wrong. Breathtakingly wrong. This casual excuse-making is part of why the game's EA development has been so cancerous.

I won't spam you with dozens of links but:
  1. Bannerlord is NOT a SP-only game and the devs have made clear that SP/RPG elements are NOT the priority for dev in EA
  2. Bannerlord is in EA with constant content updates, not full release where you consume all the content in one 80-hour playthrough.
  3. Bannerlord can really only be compared to Warband: WB has 30% of the current users of BL despite being practically ancient and supposedly obsolete. It appears that roughly half of the WB userbase switched to BL on release and the number of WB players who haven't upgraded has stayed rock-solid steady since then.
  4. Also if you just look at the steam charts for each, you'll see that WB maintained a consistent fanbase for TEN YEARS on Steam with peaks of recurring interest while BL dropped like a rock since EA opened.
  5. Similarly, if you look at the charts for popular or even niche pure-singleplayer games... they mostly have slow losses in active players with a gradual curve - where the curve for BL dropped off a cliff immediately after release.
  6. WB has 16.18% of peak users playing now vs 6.96% for BL.
  7. WB stands at 97.7% positive reviews vs 87.4% for BL - and before you take pride in how "high" that is...keep in mind that end-user reviews in almost every industry skew positive and most of these "positive" reviews explicitly say that the game sucks but they're looking forward to it not sucking in the future.
  8. (Random note: I was wondering why there's a jump in the curve where 5000 BL positive reviews magically showed up out of nowhere in late Nov 2020... turned out it was not timed with an actual update of content, but a 10% off sale... and the jump in reviews didn't correspond with a major jump in actual active users)
According to Steam250, Warband stands at the #17 best game of all time while Bannerlord stands at #1611. Warband has been in the top 250 for 99% of its 10.5 years of existence while Bannerlord has been for exactly one day.

By tags: WB is the #2 Medieval game of all time, the #3 Strategy game, the #2 Realistic game, the #1 Historical game, the #7 Open-World game, the #5 RPG game and the #6 Sandbox.

Bannerlord ranks #50 for Medieval, #61 for Realistic and #53 for Historical. It doesn't break the top 250 for Strategy, Open World, RPG or Sandbox. Bannerlord is ranked 129th in current Early Access games, just one spot under Granny Simulator. In one year, the general vibe of this forum has gone from overwhelming slavish dev-worship to overwhelming nine-stages-of-grief.

The point is: do not pretend that Bannerlord is a good or successful or growing game. Even by indie standards, the performance is weak and the player base is not happy. Despite the fact that WB cost as little as $3 at various points in time and BL has never sold for less than $40, WB earned an estimated ~$70M in net sales vs ~$110M for BL.

Warband was not just one of the most popular games on Steam: within a year of release, it was one of the top 100 games of all time. Bannerlord does not remotely compare.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Also if you just look at the steam charts for each, you'll see that WB maintained a consistent fanbase for TEN YEARS on Steam with peaks of recurring interest while BL dropped like a rock since EA opened.
Steam Charts doesn't record the release numbers for Warband though. It only goes back to 2012 and Warband was released in 2010, so you can't say it maintained it's userbase better than any other single player-focused title.
Similarly, if you look at the charts for popular or even niche pure-singleplayer games... they mostly have slow losses in active players with a gradual curve - where the curve for BL dropped off a cliff immediately after release.
What? I did look at them: Total War Three Kingdoms -- 90% of the average player count gone in three months. Kingdom Come Deliverance -- 90% gone in three months. Some games manage better numbers through DLC releases, which confuses things.
 

WhyAmIHere

keep in mind that end-user reviews in almost every industry skew positive and most of these "positive" reviews explicitly say that the game sucks but they're looking forward to it not sucking in the future.
To be fair, this happens with every popular EA game (there was some version of this in probably half of BG3 reviews last I checked). I agree that it's infuriating and a misuse of the review system, however.
 

Bob Gnarly

Sergeant at Arms
They might have a major shift in strategy once they realize that those of us who are pissed off are the majority, not the obsequious SOON-worshippers.
I get it, your salt levels are off the charts. But let's not try and portray the hardcore community as the majority 😆
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
I get it, your salt levels are off the charts. But let's not try and portray the hardcore community as the majority 😆
The hardcore community isn't the majority. It's about 20% of the player base.

But normal non-autists are the actual majority: the roughly 2.5 million people who bought this game, then gave up on it immediately.

Bannerlord is an autistic game. It's tons of grind with virtually no roleplaying and minimal combat sophistication and shallow strategy only barely made playable by mods... in each of these categories Bannerlord is outclassed by better RPG's, better medieval combat sims and better strategy games (often with better modding support).

There is definitely something kind of crazy/autistic with people like me who play this game for hundreds of hours despite hating it...

But it's really not better than the people who insist this is an amazing accomplishment despite it being an obvious step down from WB and competing titles.

Normal people don't play this game. Normal people don't stan this game on forums. Normal people dropped this game like a red-hot poker within hours or minutes after booting it up and are periodically checking in every few months to see if it's stopped sucking yet.
 
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five bucks

Sergeant at Arms
What majority?
Around 200 "yes" voters in this english speaking thread against +100K copies sold around the world...
There are 236 total votes in this thread (207 of which are "yes").

You can survey a population of 100,000 people with 85% confidence and a 5% margin for error with just 207 respondents.

So, we can say with some confidence that the majority of Bannerlord's playerbase would agree with that list.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
There are 236 total votes in this thread (207 of which are "yes").

You can survey a population of 100,000 people with 85% confidence and a 5% margin for error with just 207 respondents.

So, we can say with some confidence that the majority of Bannerlord's playerbase would agree with that list.
Only if the survey participants are representative of the playerbase and they aren't.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Okay, so in which way are you claiming this poll is non-representative? Let me guess: Forum users vs. non forum users?
Yes, but more generally self-selection is a known biasing factor in polling. You can get pretty good confidence (with some caveats) out of surprisingly low numbers but not if they are self-selecting. Of course, you can also easily say that the wider playerbase is mostly casual and their opinions shouldn't count for as much as forum-goers because they'll move onto the next product -- regardless of quality -- very quickly, like a horde of locusts.

FWIW, I think it is clear which direction TW decided to go though.
 

Spinozart1

Sergeant at Arms
So if we consider your statement being:
  • There is no hope that this game will ever not suck
  • Those of us who are pissed off are the majority
And other users told you that huge drop after release is a common trend in game industry
Bannerlord is NOT a SP-only game and the devs have made clear that SP/RPG elements are NOT the priority for dev in EA
So you are considering the MP player base as an indicator.
Bannerlord is in EA with constant content updates, not full release where you consume all the content in one 80-hour playthrough.
Here we don't take into account the MP player base? I'm lost.
Bannerlord can really only be compared to Warband: WB has 30% of the current users of BL despite being practically ancient and supposedly obsolete. It appears that roughly half of the WB userbase switched to BL on release and the number of WB players who haven't upgraded has stayed rock-solid steady since then.
Despite Bannerlord is the sequel of Warband, if we consider both products in terms of marketing, it is not comparable.
Warband is a mature and polished product (10 years+), low price, low price DCL, with great polished mods. Public age range is wide.
Bannerlord is under development (not released), high price, no DCL, mods being under development. Public age range may be less wide.
Also if you just look at the steam charts for each, you'll see that WB maintained a consistent fanbase for TEN YEARS on Steam with peaks of recurring interest while BL dropped like a rock since EA opened.
You stay focused on the drop after release, if we look to the average and peak users in last 30 days from your source:
Warband : average (4K) peak (6,7K)
Bannerlord : average (14K) peak (23K)
Similarly, if you look at the charts for popular or even niche pure-singleplayer games... they mostly have slow losses in active players with a gradual curve - where the curve for BL dropped off a cliff immediately after release.
Are you comparing with a early access game barely playable because of the multiple bugs?
Or are you comparing with a fully polished game release?
WB has 16.18% of peak users playing now vs 6.96% for BL.
Percentage is easy to purposely interpret.
WB stands at 97.7% positive reviews vs 87.4% for BL - and before you take pride in how "high" that is...keep in mind that end-user reviews in almost every industry skew positive and most of these "positive" reviews explicitly say that the game sucks but they're looking forward to it not sucking in the future.
Again, not comparable. let's wait a full release.
According to Steam250, Warband stands at the #17 best game of all time while Bannerlord stands at #1611. Warband has been in the top 250 for 99% of its 10.5 years of existence while Bannerlord has been for exactly one day.

By tags: WB is the #2 Medieval game of all time, the #3 Strategy game, the #2 Realistic game, the #1 Historical game, the #7 Open-World game, the #5 RPG game and the #6 Sandbox.

Bannerlord ranks #50 for Medieval, #61 for Realistic and #53 for Historical. It doesn't break the top 250 for Strategy, Open World, RPG or Sandbox. Bannerlord is ranked 129th in current Early Access games, just one spot under Granny Simulator. In one year, the general vibe of this forum has gone from overwhelming slavish dev-worship to overwhelming nine-stages-of-grief.
All I see there is a good strategical position for the franchise.
Thank you for this analysis.
More seriously, speaking about ranking, Bannerlord faces more competition than warband, and TW better manage correclty the final release.
The point is: do not pretend that Bannerlord is a good or successful or growing game. Even by indie standards, the performance is weak and the player base is not happy. Despite the fact that WB cost as little as $3 at various points in time and BL has never sold for less than $40, WB earned an estimated ~$70M in net sales vs ~$110M for BL.
Speaking of performance, price strategy is also a huge factor.

To make it short, it is too early to really make any conclusion regarding the possible fail/success of Bannerlord.
And to come back to the OP, while TW would better consider wisely which features are to be implemented to ensure the most enjoyable experience for its customers, it is also important for them to stick with their own vision. To give Bannerlord its real identity.
 

Spinozart1

Sergeant at Arms
Okay, so in which way are you claiming this poll is non-representative? Let me guess: Forum users vs. non forum users?
Yes exactly. Speaking about additional bias:
Language... I don't want to relaunch this debate, but it is an actual factor to consider if you want to have a representative sample.
Age. I don't think this forum also represents all the age levels of players.
Influence. This forum tends to galvanize the negative minding about Bannerlord as well...
 

five bucks

Sergeant at Arms
Yes exactly. Speaking about additional bias:
Language... I don't want to relaunch this debate, but it is an actual factor to consider if you want to have a representative sample.
Age. I don't think this forum also represents all the age levels of players.
You're really grasping at straws here. How are language and age going to make a major difference in the problems people find with the game and want prioritized to be fixed?
As I have already said, English is a massively spoken language among Internet users, being both the most common first language, the most common second-spoken language in addition to a native language, and the most common language used on webpages. But even among the people who don't speak English as a supplementary language/don't choose to use the English forums, I look at the Chinese-language, Turkish-language and French-language subforums with Google Translate, and they're voicing many of the same concerns that are represented in the OP.
Influence. This forum tends to galvanize the negative minding about Bannerlord as well...
Considering the poll doesn't ask, "do you like the game or not?", I'm not seeing how that's an issue.

It isn't a question of negativity vs. positivity. It's the question "does this roadmap represent your basic wants for Bannerlord"?
Yes, but more generally self-selection is a known biasing factor in polling. You can get pretty good confidence (with some caveats) out of surprisingly low numbers but not if they are self-selecting.
Okay, so if the bias you claim is forum vs. non forum, how is this meant to invalidate the poll? Keep in mind it's not asking "do you like the game". It's asking whether it does a good job of representing the fixes and inclusions the respondee would like to see made.
 
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Spinozart1

Sergeant at Arms
You're really grasping at straws here. How are language and age going to make a major difference in the problems people find with the game and want prioritized to be fixed?
As I have already said, English is a massively spoken language among Internet users, being both the most common first language, the most common second-spoken language in addition to a native language, and the most common language used on webpages. But even among the people who don't speak English as a supplementary language/don't choose to use the English forums, I look at the Chinese-language, Turkish-language and French-language subforums with Google Translate, and they're voicing many of the same concerns that are represented in the OP.

Considering the poll doesn't ask, "do you like the game or not?", I'm not seeing how that's an issue.

It isn't a question of negativity vs. positivity. It's the question "does this roadmap represent your basic wants for Bannerlord"?
Sorry, I'm not invalidating the poll.
It clearly shows that you are not the only one to expect those implementations and it got looked at by the devs. Again well done.
I just don't agree when you claim that it represents the "majority".
Your roadmap (again you did a great job) includes a lot bias and is critisizing the current development of the game. Obviously It will tend to attract more people thinking that way than the others. It is some kind of influence (OP is not neutral).
 
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