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Koufodin@s
Recruit
would be great if there was a choice that you could stay out of battle and watch and play as one of your troops.
Newton
Recruit
This could be connected with the elimination of a imo really annoying feature: The ego-shooter-like strafing. It just looks really strange if a footman strafes while running in your direction. The first time I saw that, I immediately thought of Counter Strike. This does not help to etablish a (realistic) medieval flair.
And, I find myself doing it too: I guess one is quicker if he runs forward and strafes at the same time.
This could be solved easily: For example if you hit the left key twice, the character will make a short jump or dodge to the left. Like jumping, you can't do it all the time but it happens more abruptly as strafing.
Moreover, this'd be more effective than strafing, if you or the KI wants to dodge an arrow or a lance attack (since they are so über).
As for the general "12. Dodging" idea, ... the same could be done with all direction buttons: If you hit the key twice, the character will dodge into that direction.
The same, with "4. Sprint" because one could even go further and say: Running is realized by "dodging" forward all the time.
But on the other hand, it'd be not the characters "stamina" that force him not to run all the time, but tired fingers (or a broken keyboard).
Saw that on Morrowind (Oblivion), really impressive. But I figure this'd be really hard to implement.
Amman d Stazia
Master Knight
formations!!! basic ones - close formation and loose formation, back-to-back (for survival)
ability to order 'shields up' and 'hold fire'
identify troops by weapon or equipment, eg polearm/ranged/mounted
ability to order 'shields up' and 'hold fire'
identify troops by weapon or equipment, eg polearm/ranged/mounted
denizk
So, I understand that the number of people that want to see the combat system improved is not negligible. I wish we had a clue if those suggestions are going to be implemented in the upcomig versions.
denizk
Shooting heads is not humanistic neither 
But it is at least more realistic
But it is at least more realistic
Volkier
Sergeant Knight
My oppinion in what is THE most essential part of combat that should be fixed / changed is:
1) option to stop horses disappearing (or equilavent as discussed previously)
2) option to disable double damage (horse+rider joined hitbox) or an equilavent
3) everything else :
Just what I personally feel heh ::\
1) option to stop horses disappearing (or equilavent as discussed previously)
2) option to disable double damage (horse+rider joined hitbox) or an equilavent
3) everything else :
Just what I personally feel heh ::\
Azcourt
Recruit
I think dodge would really serve as the balancing feature for low-weight armor wearing characters. It still doesn't feel like it is any better to wear low-weight armor. Having the dodge ability decreasing at an exponential rate (based on your weight) would really encourage cloth and leather armor wearing.
There should be intelligent designed (as good as medieval technology could get) leather and cloth armor that weighted considerably less, while maintaining some basic protection, wich would cost lots of money (as if they were made by ultra-specialized artisans with very rare materials). As far as I remember, cloth and leather armor doesnt get as expenisve as some top-of-line heavy armor. The suggestion above is to have leather&cloth armor as expensive as heavy armor.
There should be intelligent designed (as good as medieval technology could get) leather and cloth armor that weighted considerably less, while maintaining some basic protection, wich would cost lots of money (as if they were made by ultra-specialized artisans with very rare materials). As far as I remember, cloth and leather armor doesnt get as expenisve as some top-of-line heavy armor. The suggestion above is to have leather&cloth armor as expensive as heavy armor.
denizk
@Volkier: I don't think '1' is a part of the battle system. It is -imo- sort of environmental issues. and for '2', I think Armağan should add a game menu asking the user if she/he is Volkier or not. If Volkier, then make all the horses immortal and high-level warriors.
Eird-Way
Regular
Two easy, elegant changes:
- People run slightly faster when looking forward.
- The later the parry, the slower the attacker recovers. (sitting on the block button means you don't get to counterattack)
This would GREATLY sophisticate the dynamics of combat. I don't think a stamina system and extra animations are really necessary.
If we're going to add graphics, I say four new animations:
- Kick
- Pommel
- Stab guy on ground
- Block while on ground
This whole jogging backwards slashing wildly needs to stop. Who's with me?
When the enemy is inside your minimum range (depends on weapon), the attack button will instead kick (or perhaps shield bash) to knock him back, or if he's really close you'll pommel him, which has a chance of knocking him down. If you attack near a downed guy, you'll try and finish him, and he'll die automatically if he doesn't block. (A very well timed block will give you time to get up)
If we then teach the enemy to either try and keep you at medium range, or try to get inside your guard, depending on his equipment and yours, things would be extremely interesting.
I really do insist on those first two, though.
- People run slightly faster when looking forward.
- The later the parry, the slower the attacker recovers. (sitting on the block button means you don't get to counterattack)
This would GREATLY sophisticate the dynamics of combat. I don't think a stamina system and extra animations are really necessary.
If we're going to add graphics, I say four new animations:
- Kick
- Pommel
- Stab guy on ground
- Block while on ground
This whole jogging backwards slashing wildly needs to stop. Who's with me?
When the enemy is inside your minimum range (depends on weapon), the attack button will instead kick (or perhaps shield bash) to knock him back, or if he's really close you'll pommel him, which has a chance of knocking him down. If you attack near a downed guy, you'll try and finish him, and he'll die automatically if he doesn't block. (A very well timed block will give you time to get up)
If we then teach the enemy to either try and keep you at medium range, or try to get inside your guard, depending on his equipment and yours, things would be extremely interesting.
I really do insist on those first two, though.
Volkier
Sergeant Knight
<deniz> said:@Volkier: I don't think '1' is a part of the battle system. It is -imo- sort of environmental issues. and for '2', I think Armağan should add a game menu asking the user if she/he is Volkier or not. If Volkier, then make all the horses immortal and high-level warriors.
Deniz, kindly don't mis-understand. The reason why I love this game, is because horses function separately, and are infact mortal. Reason I don't like the share hit-box is exactly because it goes against what I have said above - a horse therefore becomes part of the rider's hit box, and is nothing more than a speed boost.
Having said that, I have absolutely no problem if the number of hit boxes hit is fixed at 2, meaning you will still hit horse + rider, but you will also hit human + human if they stand next to each other. There are quite a few similar suggestion in a few threads, and I am not the only one who dislikes the joined hit-boxes present in game.
Ideally, I would really love horses to be as alive as possible within the game, which is completely the opposite of an "immortal high-level warrior", and means that they are very mortal, and behave in a unique way rather than just be a speed increase buff. We all know however, that it is impossible to occur in M&B, because of the complexity. I would however point out, that there is a very very large room for minor additions which would majorly improve horses at the current stage :
Whether or not thats going to happen, is obviously up to Armagan / community.As for point one, I feel it really is part of the battle system, since you can use the riderless horses to your advantage, not to mention the footmen ability to mount them to be used further in battle.
denizk
I still believe that a lance or a sword is likely to hit both the rider and the horse itself. In the game, as we all know, horses not alway get damaged by those weapons; it depends on your attack direction. I mean, most of the time it is the rider that get hit. Thus, I don't see why we need to change that. However, I agree with you that a couched lance would affect more than one people if they are standing very close to each other***. But, as this would affect the game in terms of its complexity, it would not have a high prioirty in my to-do list if I were the developer.
And the horse thingy. For me, yeah, horses are just speed boost and plus a tool for using the lances. IMO, we do not need to define some other functionalities/responsibilities for them. I also don't know if people did so in 10th to 18th centuries or whatever.
***Actually I don't understand why the ranged weapons are the only ones that deliver damage to your allies, but this would be a separate discussion.
And the horse thingy. For me, yeah, horses are just speed boost and plus a tool for using the lances. IMO, we do not need to define some other functionalities/responsibilities for them. I also don't know if people did so in 10th to 18th centuries or whatever.
***Actually I don't understand why the ranged weapons are the only ones that deliver damage to your allies, but this would be a separate discussion.
denizk
Sure but that's already the way they probably are!
Crocrider
Regular
Just to chime on this thread (which I'm sure Armagan will be reviewing, good job posters!):
I really think the tactical commands (hold position, charge, follow me, etc) would benefit from being able to accept a target on the landscape. This was the system in Operation Flashpoint, and I loved deploying my troops across the landscape by pointing out destinations to my troops. It's intuitive, it's realistic, and I imagine it's not that hard to implement.
That's the core of the thing. That would make me very happy.
An extension of the idea would include requiring a line-of-sight to your men in order to issue orders. This could lead to all sorts of fun gameplay:
You've scouted ahead around a hill hoping to soften up some infantry with your horse archer - but no! A wave of cavalry surprise you in a valley. Sure you'd like backup - but you'll have to evade their swords and lances and gallop back into sight of your troops so that they see that you are in trouble!
Or,
A knot of your infantry is faring worse than expected in a river bed. Time to send in the Seargants who are busy chasing a horse archer... you gallop up to a vantage point where you have both the heroes and the infantry in sight and then issue the order, then head off to take care of those damn horse archers yourself...
Basically, this gets rid of the radio-style response your troops have now, adds realistic and enjoyable chaos in the form of barriers to communication, while at the same time enhancing your ability to make your troops manoeuver. If the AI could eventually be likewise inhibited by line-of-sight contraints... gaming nirvana.
In other news, I like:
1. the minimum range kick/bash suggestion (something to mix up the hand-to-hand fighting a bit)
2. the reward for making last-minute blocks in the form of delaying the enemy's next attack. There ought to be at least *something* you can try when cornered by Dagoth the Insane in the arena. He should probably still cut you up, but you'd feel better...
3. a get-the-hell-out-of-dodge sprint button.
It feels pretty artificial to be stuck with only one speed. Make it like the jump, can't do it more than once in a while... Wouldn't want to see a little spint icon recharging anywhere. Make it like Flashpoint (I think) in that you have a sprint reservoir. When it's full, you have five seconds of sprint-time. If you haven't rested long enough to recharge the sprint, you'rel still able to run, only for less time. You get a very visceral feel for how hard you're pushing your character that way. Recharge rate could be determined by your strength to encumberance ratio, tempered by the athletics skill. Of course this would mean a whole round of play-testing to see what happens when the AI starts sprinting! But I think it would be worth it.
I've had to uninstall the game while I try to get some damn work done. Lurking in the forums gives me a vicarious thrill
I really think the tactical commands (hold position, charge, follow me, etc) would benefit from being able to accept a target on the landscape. This was the system in Operation Flashpoint, and I loved deploying my troops across the landscape by pointing out destinations to my troops. It's intuitive, it's realistic, and I imagine it's not that hard to implement.
That's the core of the thing. That would make me very happy.
An extension of the idea would include requiring a line-of-sight to your men in order to issue orders. This could lead to all sorts of fun gameplay:
You've scouted ahead around a hill hoping to soften up some infantry with your horse archer - but no! A wave of cavalry surprise you in a valley. Sure you'd like backup - but you'll have to evade their swords and lances and gallop back into sight of your troops so that they see that you are in trouble!
Or,
A knot of your infantry is faring worse than expected in a river bed. Time to send in the Seargants who are busy chasing a horse archer... you gallop up to a vantage point where you have both the heroes and the infantry in sight and then issue the order, then head off to take care of those damn horse archers yourself...
Basically, this gets rid of the radio-style response your troops have now, adds realistic and enjoyable chaos in the form of barriers to communication, while at the same time enhancing your ability to make your troops manoeuver. If the AI could eventually be likewise inhibited by line-of-sight contraints... gaming nirvana.
In other news, I like:
1. the minimum range kick/bash suggestion (something to mix up the hand-to-hand fighting a bit)
2. the reward for making last-minute blocks in the form of delaying the enemy's next attack. There ought to be at least *something* you can try when cornered by Dagoth the Insane in the arena. He should probably still cut you up, but you'd feel better...
3. a get-the-hell-out-of-dodge sprint button.
It feels pretty artificial to be stuck with only one speed. Make it like the jump, can't do it more than once in a while... Wouldn't want to see a little spint icon recharging anywhere. Make it like Flashpoint (I think) in that you have a sprint reservoir. When it's full, you have five seconds of sprint-time. If you haven't rested long enough to recharge the sprint, you'rel still able to run, only for less time. You get a very visceral feel for how hard you're pushing your character that way. Recharge rate could be determined by your strength to encumberance ratio, tempered by the athletics skill. Of course this would mean a whole round of play-testing to see what happens when the AI starts sprinting! But I think it would be worth it.
I've had to uninstall the game while I try to get some damn work done. Lurking in the forums gives me a vicarious thrill
Volkier
Sergeant Knight
<deniz> said:
Fine - nobody says its impossible, but then it should be possible to hit 2 enemies standing next to each another, if you are able to hit horse + rider (who are also close to one another). Why is there so much elaboration on joining up hit boxes that are in close proximity if its a horse + rider, but not when its two footmen in close proximity? You can just as well hit two people who are in line of your swing as a horse + rider ::\
denizk
But I did say that I agree with you in that.
Eird-Way
Regular
Crocrider said:
- I agree, but I think it is more important to punish a very early block. The game will be more exciting if it rewards us for paying attention.
Let me word it this way: A parry will inflict maximum "recovery time" when it is "fresh", but very little when "stale".
- I do NOT want a sprint button, and I doubt Armagan does, either. I specifically suggest that characters move just a little faster when running in the direction they are looking.
This will mean that FPS-style strafing is not always the best answer.
It will also create the option of turning around and running away.
And most importantly, it will eliminate the flailing while jogging backwards, because the attacker will always catch you. Mashing on the attack button while running backwards is the hallmark of a mediocre action game. I want holding my ground to be a good option because it looks good, makes sense, and is easier to program than a stamina system or a percent chance of falling down when running backwards.
And when the attacker gets too close, well, I hate to be demanding, but some degree of armed pummeling is absolutely vital for a medieval combat game as realistic as this one. Two or three new animations would do the job, though, and pummeling should lead to knockback or knockdown.
This would make the fighting much more realistic and complex, and I don't think would be too hard.
