Charlini's Video Thread & Feedback Suggestions

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Charlini

Master Knight
(Doing this thread as I've no idea if patches are planned anytime soon, or if developers even intend to touch balance and combat, hopefully this is not taken as a rage post but that we recognise that the game state is not where it should be to really satisfy all aspects of the game. Move the thread if it shouldn't be posted here)

Hello. I've got 10 years of experience in M&B games since the start of the series both casually and on a competitive approach(Native in Warband), been giving feedback since June to try and help developers polish the game. I don't feel that the improvement towards combat and balance has been anywhere close to enough and now on Early Access we're starting to suffer part of it.

Would appreciate an answer from Taleworlds overall debating if now they're gonna focus on fixing the game(crashes, bugs, glitches etc) or if we can expect balance and combat changes in good pace so that competitive hopes(or any chance of playing to improve or on a balanced experience) are not gone.

Also wanna remind that this is to improve the game. Playwise it's on a good state not counting the crashes and server issues, so big up to Taleworlds for that, but always got to be realistic and look up to polishing the game specially when we wanna reach casual and competitive common ground.




For now I'm gonna keep posting videos and beneath or inside them my personal thoughts on them. Purely my opinion about this to balance it properly into the game(So that it can be used in SP, MP casually and MP competitively). So please, before answering negatively think with future sight towards the game, and understanding that the gamemode youre interested at, is not the same as the one another player may be playing, got to find the common ground to make it fun, viable and logical for everyone.

If changes come I'll delete or update videos with similar content on this post.



(Keep in mind that I'm talking from my own experience and years of play, specially focused in trying to find that balance where we can both, play competitively and casually respecting the best aspects from both sides) - (Specially about certain details of complexity such stances, I may be wrong about many stuff, I'm doing this in my own free time to help Taleworlds so go easy on it and respect everyone's opinion, both mine or below in the comments)



My personal Main Suggestions so far

-OVERALL SUGGESTIONS:
·We really need Ranked as soon as possible. Alongside this lack of balance and combat flaws, new players get dropped against stacks of 6 which has way more experience and are dominating games. If they keep playing against broken aspects of the game used by players who are way better than them(without offense to anyone), they're just gonna get mad and quit the game at least from the 'trying to win' intention in no time. And in the end taleworlds or those stacks of 6 will take the blame. We need Ranked by stacks and skill gaps based on Win Rate/Individual input. Some sort of 'Score' would help this.

·We need Duel gamemode to test all mechanics, and specially work out damage inconsistencies or try out fixes. Would help a lot. Please if it's getting delayed because you're developing spcific classes for duel gamemode, implement them soon!
·Dedicated servers should come earlier than expected but right on point when balance gets achieved between combat and classes. Don't delay it more than the needed time.

·Shields are needed as an option for all classes as a Choice(even if its very poor quality one), for skimish. Even this was recognised by Taleworlds but the change just didnt come yet. I'll dedicate more feedback towards perk balancing once combat and balance classwise(in terms of gameplay) is achieved.

·Introduce Team Damage(100% horses included in Skirmish gamemode) - Also for any other gamemode, I suggest introducing Teamdamage(50% horses included), with some script or algorythm that makes the player directly teamhit on target for a total of 3 times, and after that start inflicting that 50% teamhit effect on himself(self-damage). Not sure if this second choice is possible but would be really good to avoid that extreme chaos and more importantly teamkillers/trolls.

·Introduce Sound -clear- effects when Feinting.

·Reduce S-Key movement speed penalty when blocking or attacking. The speed you lose sells you out completly both in SP and MP.

·Fix Connectivity issues causing some players to have pings up to 200 only in Matchmaking games
(Issue relates only in Bannerlord).
--Balance out Cavalry and it's Mechanics: [Video 4]
(Just watch and read the video, there's so many aspects that it would just flood the thread) - (All the feedback is involved in there)
-Balance out Archery's full accuracy: [Video 1]
·Increase the time it takes to reach that full accuracy, or in other words, the time it takes to close reticle(I would consider a slightly wider start-up position before reticle closes, specially on non-archer units)
·Reduce the amount of time he can hold that full accuracy stage until reticle goes wide again(on bows and throwing weapons)
·Add penalty to flick shots/quick turns while aiming so that the reticle enwides, to then recalibrate to the new static aiming spot.
·Add a penalty(enworse pure accuracy) when horse archering if the unit mounting the horse isn't supposed to be good at horse archering.
·Add a HUGE penalty for non archer users when shotting with a bow and arrows, specially when mounting a horse aswell.
·(I would consider reducing very slightly projectile speed, but first I would try the changes above to see how archers end up)
·(Also would consider increasing slightly damage from bows, and would definetly decrease Throwing axes and Crossbows damage if armor absorbtion isn't reworked or armor values are not reduced while these changes above are applied)
-Damage Inconsistencies(All videos, specially 2 and 3)
·Either rework area of damage combined with damage formula or rework the amount of damage that armor ratings block, because currently, it blocks way too much damage.
In my eyes the second option is easier and should work after some testing. Try Rescalating Multiplayer armor ratings between [2 to 33] instead of the current [2-50]. I feel that it will really fix the non-sense bouncing, extremely low damage hits and allow us to kill even tanks with max 5 hits unless that we really miss our hit timing or spot where we hit(too early or too late). All of this while allowing logical 'high or balanced' damages in all units who are either naked or on light armor.
·Some 2 handed/polearm weapons specially on horse deliver too much damage. Glaive on horseback is the best example.
·Rework bounces for single player, no casual enjoys cutting through someone's shoulder or head and either bouncing or delivering 7 damage. I've seen streamers getting visually angry over this, and thousands of people calling out the game on chat because of this reason. These bounces need to happen when the hit or weapon deserve it, not randomly because the hit 'isn't perfect' when it visually should do major damage.
-Stances, Movement Speed & Attack/Block speed Variables(Video 2, will provide Multiplayer videos another time)
·Stances variate too much movement speed and attack speed(when feinting). Consider reducing a bit those values on the '.XML' file in order to provide less chaos on groupfights, more control and tracking through the fights(both duels and with more players involved) and overall a better combat experience.
·Reduce the delay or penalty we get for blocking an upcoming attack while using the 'wrong stance'. Specially in groupfights this is totally uncontrolable, more when you're against multiple opponents, your main goal is to block and hit back, don't prevent us from doing it with something we can't really control.
·Reduce the 'floaty' or 'ice-skaty' effect when swapping side-to-side when moving directions and that happens to movement overall on the ground. It was similar with cavs in June and you guys fixed it fine, but we need even less floaty feeling for the infantries.
-SP Feedback(Video 5)
-Improve AI combat behaviour - Remove constant 'clip throughs' and pile ups specially on low numbers/fights without formations. Add combat behaviour considering teamdamage, even if on SP it's off. (Read details on feedback Video 5 below). Bots should look more for spaces and respect the combat system.
-Improve/fix Stealth option
-Fix glitch that allows us to 'hug opponent diagonally' making him lose track of us, resulting in free hits on any 1v1.


[More feedback & suggestions to come]




All involved inside the video, pause to read sorry about the poor editing skills


Testing Bannerlord's Singleplayer AI and combat system on Early Access day 1.
The Opponent(AI Tharos) seems to absurdly speeds up at some stages, I guess its given stance multipliers or some other movement speed modifiers. Combat feels way more responsive than in Multiplayer, however the extremely low damages(that are even more frustrating and present on MP) and constant bounces make the experience fall off drasticly from what it should be and feel.
Pretty good job on the AI, feels like an actual challenge specially when surrounded by multiple opponents. Really got to work on polishing the combat system though. Specially on MP, combined with balance, should be really concerning right now.

A problem that should really only happen where the hit is not executed properly or doesn't land at the right timing & spot unless that your weapon IS REALLY and visually bounce-likely. I guess that good timing-spot can only be somewhat argued on the first bounce but not the rest for this clip.

I don't think this is intended as a 'level up to not bounce' mechanic, and I believe these bounces are purely caused by armor absorbtion + area of damage formula(Not Optimised) whenever the damage output isn't extremely high. Again, the sword stats aren't bad and those hits should really not bounce at all, damages should be way higher so that I kill him max in 4-5 hits and normally in 3-4 considering im a low character on the clip, but definetly not bounce at almost every 2-3 hits on the head or clearly cutting through the arm/shoulder.
In multiplayer we get similar effects damagewise, but it becomes even worse as a player's movement is way less predictable, specially on newest players. Bounces rarely happen(they still sometimes do, when the hit isn't perfect even if visually shouldn't bounce). But damages are really low and I think it can turn out to be extremely annoying specially for casual players who hit the same target more than 5 times and they don't die.

All involved inside the video, pause to read sorry about the poor editing skills

Wasn't able to play a lot of SP at the start as bugs/glitches making it crash made it unplayable. However the updates allowed me to start recently so some feedback related with AI/combat is allowed. These are just points visible on the video.

·Regarding this quest, I understand that my troops were not the best as I was on an early stage of the game, however I got it offered and accepted, and I really believe that it should be 'viable' if it's offered, without any exploits like I had to use, but the way AI work in 1v2+ situations and the fact that I can only bring like 7 troops against 20, I had no choice.

·AI needs to stop piling up & clipping through eachother:

Almost every 1v2+ becomes extremely hard not because of a combat issue itself, but because of the way AI behave. They stand too close to eachother, to the point of clipping through eachother specially when any of them get hit. This becomes worse given the fact that they don't detect teammates, and start spamming hits behind them, as there's no teamhit. The moment you hit one, he gets clipped through by his teammate who's attacking beforehand, and you get hit without even spotting that last one coming.

This has to be fixed, they need to respect spacing specially with the way combat has been developed(Avoid bounces standing too close etc). Avoid 'hugging' eachother or standing unnaturally super close. I understand that for larger battles which involve many units, specially when using tactics, they should 'pile-up', but for lesser battles where less bots are involved, they should look more for those spaces, move more from side to side and respect more distances. Would be a HUGE improvement.

In relation to this, it would be a huge improvement if they acted less like AI and behave as if teamdamage was ON overall. More target swapping, less attack spamming on outnumbering situations ignoring teammate's in between etc.

·There's a glitch exploitable when 1v1ing any AI on melee. If you 'hug' opponent, walk forward and diagonally(W+A) while spammin right-side attacks(and chaining for consecutive ones) he inmediatly loses track of you and doesn't turn his shield on time, allowing you to infinetly hit him. Opposite side:sad:W+D) + left attacks also work. They work really well because it also allows easy 'hit/neck' hits, avoiding bounces. Fix this please.

·Alongside what I just mentioned, wanna remind of the constant bounces and low damage hits, those really need to be worked on at some point.

·I don't really know why stealth option is in the game if the AI is just gonna ignore it and charge against me when he hears me coming on his back 5 meters away.
Make Stealth viable, and make your bots/companions follow you in this stealth option when they're nearby and under 'follow me' command.
We should be able to reach opponent and catch him off-guard if he doesn't have eyes on us and we approach from mid distance with stealh mode ON, specially at night.
Fix stealth movement through stairs, currently you get stuck in many of those.

 
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Charlini

Master Knight
Bump, not sure why it says this got written at that hour and got straight sent to 2nd page, guess 'Preview' writing reserves a thread spot.
 

Count Talbar

Sergeant at Arms
Great thread. I hope it doesn't get buried due to the forum layout. I think it was a mistake to hide the beta forums as they had a good layout and months of feedback just gone.
 
Great thread. I hope it doesn't get buried due to the forum layout. I think it was a mistake to hide the beta forums as they had a good layout and months of feedback just gone.
The beta section is still there, just hidden, if I go through my messages and click on the ones I left on the beta board, the board appears
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
Would take other approaches to balance for example archer, don't think their accuracy is that big of a deal, Infantry needs just bigger shields so they can't get footshot so easily.
But overall agree with all of those.
Ranked/matchmaking for skirmish is needed or we'll soon be without new players.
Also would really like to see some MP tutorials. There's no explanation for any gamemode or the new class system.
 

Caius_III

Sergeant at Arms
This is so important, I'm upping this thread and I copy what I already said earlier on Thor's thread.

There are too many blunt hits, like way too ****ing many.

When you manage to hit somebody the stucking effet should be reduced a bit in order to be able to spam people who brainlessly hit back when they get hit + blunt hits prevent spamming. Right now the way to go is to play overly safe. I'm attacking somebody then blocking, then attacking, I'm not trying anything because every risk a player takes is immediately punished.

Archers and Xbows are way too ****ing easy. On Warband a new player could maybe put 1 on 4 shots but here, everyone is a ****ing elf without practice.

Movements are still a bit too floaty which makes it hard to follow targets ( hips are not rotating fast enough ) which also makes it really hard to land top hits. + every heavy class is running too slow, the only fun classes to play atm in terms of movement speed are the two handed classes ( guards, savages,... ) and making people spawn so far during sieges especially when they're attacking kills the dynamic of the siege.

When you're 1 against 3, you can't even back when you've got a shield as an infantry because when you're walking backwards you're going at the speed of a snail.

And again, get rid of the directional shield block or just use the same system used right now when players are climbing ladders so that people just have to look where they want their shield to move. Seeing streamers playing in singleplayer is just terrible,... you see them getting hit because they don't know how to use the directional blocking system and you can feel a lot of frustration coming from them. Many people told us our feedbacks were bull**** because we are " competitive 2h naked warband tryhards " yet the same guys must be crying right now because of how hard it is.

Spears are getting stuck way too often ( there's a massive problem with blunt hits in this game ),...

Please, listen to us, it's absolutely necessary. I hope you're going to fix these issues because other than that it's really fun.

There's a huuuuuuuge potential for competitive tournaments on this game, seeing the amount of people playing and streaming right now is incredibly exciting, yet, in order to achieve this, TaleWorlds has to absolutely fix the actual state of combat on Bannerlord. I hope we'll see more maps and also duel and battle game modes in the future.

Implementing duel would allow us to help you understanding those issues way faster by the way.

Activating teamkilling in all modes would be great too. ( Even though it would be apocalyptical lmao ).
 
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Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
the bounces/pokes are the most annoying thing, if someone just gets a lucky hit in because it randomly bounces off, i would remove that **** from the game all together (its frustrating in sp aswell), but hey we already struggled with that **** in warband

movement speed wise moving every inf 1 point up would be enough imo
 
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Charlini

Master Knight
Thanks for the positive reaction men and nice to see that we're on the same line, now it's just for Taleworlds to make the move.

Will try to include way more topics in the OP, specially those discussed. Just requires a lot of time and I wanna be as impartial as possible with stuff such what Kawaii wrote of archer solutions. I thought of that aswell(your suggestion) but this directional block system and kite-teamplay with cav-archer possibilities would keep the issue with inf-archers if accuracy factors that I mentioned are untouched, that's why I ended up deciding for the other approach. As Caius mentioned it's just extremely easy and we just started playing, imagine when a an archer with insane aim grinds on the game for a few years. We don't want RNG that's why i'd keep accuracy itself as it is, but touch the variables that adjust that accuracy to avoid bs shots and massive rat-outs neglecting certain play styles such as inf-spam(They need to viable, but hard to execute or -balanced with other classes-, unlike now. Both kite-crossfire style or insane shots should apply that last sentence.
 

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Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
Either way the way it is right now is not good for the game, worth a try for sure
I would also forward a spear change that makes cav easier to stop (hitbox)
I reckon alot of new players have a hard time dealing with cav while using spears and are close to ragequitting since in pubs cav is such a hard stomper
 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
Ranked/matchmaking for skirmish is needed or we'll soon be without new players.
Also would really like to see some MP tutorials. There's no explanation for any gamemode or the new class system.

massive + on this. i feel bad playing skirmish against these newer players because i know that they probably won't play again after losing 3 - 0 without getting a kill. it's also not particularly fun to farm these type of players. some sort of basic ranked system as a placeholder would go a long way to fixing this - maybe even one of the older basic systems that Warband matchmaking had like basing it on K/D. literally anything would help.

agree with everything charlini is saying too, particularly about making cavalry and archers weaker in melee.
 

Charlini

Master Knight
Either way the way it is right now is not good for the game, worth a try for sure
I would also forward a spear change that makes cav easier to stop (hitbox)
I reckon alot of new players have a hard time dealing with cav while using spears and are close to ragequitting since in pubs cav is such a hard stomper

Completly agree on the spear vs cav change, I plan on doing cavalry feedback and add it to the OP, that will be one of the hot topics. Will try to do Cavalry overall from now until next week. Would really like to know if Taleworlds is gonna apply any kind of balance/combat changes or is fully focused on fixing crashes and peformance.
 

부부를 넘어서 가자

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&S
massive + on this. i feel bad playing skirmish against these newer players because i know that they probably won't play again after losing 3 - 0 without getting a kill. it's also not particularly fun to farm these type of players. some sort of basic ranked system as a placeholder would go a long way to fixing this - maybe even one of the older basic systems that Warband matchmaking had like basing it on K/D. literally anything would help.
If that's too much work for a quick solution i think it's fine if you can't qeue with more than 1 friend (skirmish only). this should make matches more even for now
 

Gazzz

Regular
Agreed with all points presented, we can only hope that this wont get lost in the forums, if anything id try to push for this to get pinned as i can see this becoming a very good source for any future information
 
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