Cavalry concerns

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MrShovelFace

Squire
like with all mods iv seen so far there hasnt been much concern over cavalry's dominance

currently the only thing that i have seen stop the cav in this mod are more cavalry, large hills, sarleon halbs and them mattenheim two handers.

given the limitations of ai without rediculous swinging weapons the only way for them to kill cav (even stationary ones) is to first kill the horse which is ****ing impossible because of how indestructible horses are. Theres also no motivation for the player to use an infantry army other than 'costs' which can be easily adverted by sticking your 400 tanks that ride tanks in a castle until they are needed.

Due to misunderstandings about this topic

the concern on this topic is place on the motivation for the player to use infantry over cav as in many cases I have found it better to stick a bunch of useless infantry in a castle where they get to rot for the whole game and take my cav hoard (which is actually really easy to get in this mod) and run over a bunch of AI who have no clue how to kill a horseman

I am not
/whine
 
Wait until you end up fighting a Jatu army composed of 300 Horsemen, then tell me that your cavalry are overpowered

Theirs are

 
I have won lots of battles by pulling the enemy cavalry to my lines of infantry. Just pull your guys together (stand closer) and most cavalry will not get through, not when your archers are picking the ones that survive the crash.

Oh, and have couple types of infantry to cover for each others weaknesses.

But yeah, as in any other mod, there is little incentive not to field 100 hero adventurers. But then again, cavalry was the dominant force of the era M&B more or less simulates.
 
Dathlos said:
Fight a 300 Noldor force with your calvary.
Tell me they are overpowered with a straight face.
Click to expand...

except i as the player cant field 300 noldor haxors
and saying that something gets pwnt by the noldor doesnt say much

Gr. Adm. Thrawn said:
I have won lots of battles by pulling the enemy cavalry to my lines of infantry. Just pull your guys together (stand closer) and most cavalry will not get through, not when your archers are picking the ones that survive the crash.

Oh, and have couple types of infantry to cover for each others weaknesses.

But yeah, as in any other mod, there is little incentive not to field 100 hero adventurers. But then again, cavalry was the dominant force of the era M&B more or less simulates.
Click to expand...

that was pretty much my strategy with my legionaire army
ironically pikemen (ones without swinging weapons anyways) in this game dont do **** against cav. only large squares of infantry have hope of stopping them

u know cycle maps until i find a hill get my infantry in a good position wait til the opportune moment to counter push the cavalry charge - until i found out i could just go full cav and press F1 - F3 and conquer all of d'shar and most of the fierds

TheGrim said:
Wait until you end up fighting a Jatu army composed of 300 Horsemen, then tell me that your cavalry are overpowered

Theirs are
Click to expand...

jatu are relatively easy because most of their horses arent armored personel carriers
 
200 rangers vs 100 ha and i will pit my rangers against your ha.

as long as im not at the bottom of a hill or something obviously.

 
So what's your point? So far you have complained about the cavalry being OP in this mod, but then the native is too. Are you hurting because of how hard you're getting raped by those cavalry, or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining? The modders aren't going to nerf all cavalry units because you're making threads about it. This has been a waste of words, for you and me and others.
 
Where are Horses that strong?
Ok Netherworldcharger are tanks, but the rest?
Grab a ruby bow, some bags of noldor arrows, a horse and kill all those cavalry?
Most time I spent in battles is to snipe enemy knights/honor troops or kill their horses (normally 1 hit is enough).
So the riders aren't tanks (non knight/honor riders are mostly crap), get them off their horse (1-2 arrows) and you can kill then however you want.
 
Cavalry did rule the medieval world on flat open terrain until gun powder came along.  Use tactics, get on hills, streams, deploy pikemen.  I feel the AI is a little dumb because they will charge their cavalry ahead of the supporting troops and get massacred.  The other downside of cavalry is they are not as dominating in sieges which is the entire point of the game. 
 
khornebread said:
Cavalry did rule the medieval world on flat open terrain until gun powder came along.  Use tactics, get on hills, streams, deploy pikemen.  I feel the AI is a little dumb because they will charge their cavalry ahead of the supporting troops and get massacred.  The other downside of cavalry is they are not as dominating in sieges which is the entire point of the game.
Click to expand...

Not really, they were upgraded, it's harder now. I am still waiting for TB to make the line inside the line to fix the edge of the map exploit
 
azenky said:
So what's your point? So far you have complained about the cavalry being OP in this mod, but then the native is too. Are you hurting because of how hard you're getting raped by those cavalry, or are you just complaining for the sake of complaining? The modders aren't going to nerf all cavalry units because you're making threads about it. This has been a waste of words, for you and me and others.
Click to expand...

did you read the post?

btw cav tactics f1 f3 ftw

Centurion1 said:
200 rangers vs 100 ha and i will pit my rangers against your ha.

as long as im not at the bottom of a hill or something obviously.
Click to expand...

alright now give the AI 200 rangers and tell them to stop my 100 shadow legion derps
i quite guarantee you i wont take more than 10 casualties

freitach said:
Where are Horses that strong?
Ok Netherworldcharger are tanks, but the rest?
Grab a ruby bow, some bags of noldor arrows, a horse and kill all those cavalry?
Most time I spent in battles is to snipe enemy knights/honor troops or kill their horses (normally 1 hit is enough).
So the riders aren't tanks (non knight/honor riders are mostly crap), get them off their horse (1-2 arrows) and you can kill then however you want.
Click to expand...

never once mentioned anything in my entire post about the player not being able to kill cavalry

read good sir, read critically



If this mod is supposed to be a challenge compared to vanilla then why the hell am i conquering the world with 300 [swadian] knights with so little effort eh?
 
I always thought a dense formation of Raven Rangers, Dshar Bladesmen or Fied Huskarls were pretty dangerous to cavalry. Though starting to have doubts about bladesmen. Sometimes they seem prone to just being knocked about...

However, I always try to scatter them. Then the cavalry will slice them up. Fortunately the player can be good enough to keep such troops in a dense formation and beat up horsemen.
 
In fact sarleon halberdiers and empire pikemen are very effective against cavalry if kept in a close formation and supported by archers. mixing in some sword and board infantry reduces casualties due to enemy archers.

as for the "cavalry did rule the middle ages"-argument: the world of PoP is comparable to the late middle ages where cav was still the major force on the field but could be beaten by well organised infantry (cf. agincourt, crecy, nikopol, etc.)
 
MrShovelFace said:
jatu are relatively easy because most of their horses arent armored personel carriers
Click to expand...
First time I ever heard that... I always see the message in red when I fight them...RECIEVED COUCHED LANCE DAMAGE. Then my battle cam locks up.
 
That's why get as many jatus as you can before you fight their army. When it comes to the jatus, i give up all form of order and just charge. Of course, being the coward as i am, i just snipe from the top of my beloved netherworld charger.  :twisted:

But on to the topic, i got my hero adventurers and knight heavy army crushed many times by a disorganized pikemen force before. And what i mean is that they are scattered, should be easy pickings, right? Not! All the pikemen need is one single jab and it spells almost certain doom.

However, in actually reality, cavalry have the advantages over infantry and they should have with good reason. Horses are stronger than humans and it sucks to get rammed by a horse, even a light one. Add to the fact that the riders have advantages of height and speed. However, the disadvantages is the cost for the maintenance of the horse.

And even a light cavalry army like the mongols would show dominance over a scattered heavy infantry army.

And to address the OP's distress, i think your opinion is slightly... overrated. In native, a squad of 20 knights will steamroll over anything, even the Rhodok's Sergeants. I, however feel that the cavalry OVER dominance is addressed in this mod. The habeldiers and Pikemen are efficient and ruthless...they do what they do best. However, no one is invincible, even the Noldors can get killed by a skirmisher. You are bound to take casualty, that's for sure, but that's what wars are all about. Stop whining, steel yourselves, recover from setbacks and just soldier on.
 
All I know is unless I have ample archer support or supreme numbers, the Fierdsvain infantry crush my Sarleon knights every time.  Their infantry is scary man.
 
I dunno. I don't think cavalry is as op in this mod as it is in other mods or in native. Sure 200 top tier mounted units will usually beat 200 infantry units but mounted units cost a lot more to maintain. Also they are the same as regular infantry units when defending and sieging.

I have to agree jatu lancers are pretty ridiculous. If you are on a hill with a shield wall and ranged units you can rape them but aside from that they are not countered by much else aside from exploits like invisible wall. They are easily taken out once you reach their spawn point since they don't have enough time to gain momentum but by then the battle would probably be nearly over.

Good thing my hero can usually take out a few + a couple of horses before they get to my army.

Also Cavalry can sometimes be clustered in one point and thus less effective. They are more prone to this than infantry units.

Anyway some of the stuff I have said might be inaccurate. I have beaten Floris Mod and have made it pretty far in POP but I am still a bit newbie in some respects.
 
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