[Captain mode] Non cav classes shouldn't be able to mount on horses.

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Ulfkarl

Regular
I can't believe you made me create this post, I had hope you would fix this by now, but I had no choice.
Horse archers are not viable right now because any shock troop or inf troop can grab a random horse and wipe out all your troop so EZ with one shot, same with cavalry in general, or even archers have this problem, imagine an archer troop shooting an inf troop, and then the infantry captain takes a random horse and start murdering all your troops with one shot like if he was a cav unit.

It is not even realistic, the infantry armor is not made to mount on horses, the chain mail has to have an open space between the legs to be able to mount on a horse, and they don't have that kind of riding armor characteristics.
Its a balance problem, what is the point in being a cav when your infantry enemy can grab horses too? its unfair for them and the solution would be going back to the warband system, when you try to mount on a horse there was a text saying "you don't have enough riding skill" or something like that, come on, it would make sense and it would fix a lot of balance problem with horse archers, foot archers and cavalry in general.

Also this is a little off topic but two handed weapons on a horse look ridiculous and shouldn't be possible, how do the character control the horse if he is holding the weapon with two hands? LMAO, this is also another reason why cavalry menavlion, calvalry glaive, need to be removed or improve animations to make them more believeble and look less unrealistic.
 
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Brandis.

Subforum Moderator
I mean, on one hand, horse archers get stomped by looted horses as you mention. This is resolve by not giving enemies horses to loot, but once one horse is stolen, it quickly snowballs out of control for khuzait with all 6 enemy captains riding around and sniping their units.

On the other, if infantry couldn't loot horses, some rounds would extend for a millennium due to cav stalling it out.

Also, horse archers are pretty lackluster even if they aren't being killed by enemy captains.
 

Ulfkarl

Regular
On the other, if infantry couldn't loot horses, some rounds would extend for a millennium due to cav stalling it out.
thats why moral win and flags exist, also thats the rambo problem, it is not related at all and giving infantry the ability to mount on horses doesnt seem to be a good solution because the problem still exists
 

ParzivaI

Veteran
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I don't agree with this,i think overall most players enjoy this feature I personaly love it and i hated when the Devs reduced the maneuverability of the horse for non cav units, removing this feature is unnecessary, there are so many tactics that would be destroyed if this was removed.
 

XDaron

Sergeant Knight
I agree with this, if you're an infantry captain you should stay in the ground with your troops, not riding around trying to kill other cav, of course this change should be accompanied with the rambo cav nerf
 
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Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
+1
imho I would transfer it transversely to the competitive modes (skirmish / captain) and penalize much more the maneuverability than what is currently applied in the other modes.
 

Zarthas

Knight
I can't believe you made me create this post, I had hope you would fix this by now, but I had no choice.
Horse archers are not viable right now because any shock troop or inf troop can grab a random horse and wipe out all your troop so EZ with one shot, same with cavalry in general, or even archers have this problem, imagine an archer troop shooting an inf troop, and then the infantry captain takes a random horse and start murdering all your troops with one shot like if he was a cav unit.

It is not even realistic, the infantry armor is not made to mount on horses, the chain mail has to have an open space between the legs to be able to mount on a horse, and they don't have that kind of riding armor characteristics.
Its a balance problem, what is the point in being a cav when your infantry enemy can grab horses too? its unfair for them and the solution would be going back to the warband system, when you try to mount on a horse there was a text saying "you don't have enough riding skill" or something like that, come on, it would make sense and it would fix a lot of balance problem with horse archers, foot archers and cavalry in general.

Also this is a little off topic but two handed weapons on a horse look ridiculous and shouldn't be possible, how do the character control the horse if he is holding the weapon with two hands? LMAO, this is also another reason why cavalry menavlion, calvalry glaive, need to be removed or improve animations to make them more believeble and look less unrealistic.
Eh, at launch couldn't ride most horses if you Riding skill wasn't high enough, and only Cav unit had the skill.

It became a problem because Rambo cav and delaying, so we let everyone ride horses instead of solving that.

I agree with this conceptually, but I don't think it can be done until those issues get some solution.
 

Super Jew

Sergeant
WBNWVC
The problems with Horse Archers (in captain):
  • They are heavily dependent on the players pvp ability (which 95% of captain players lack)
  • One mistake of not moving your horse archers soon enough results in vulnerable units getting punished easily
  • They have bad horses, armor and melee weapons making them completely reliant on their bows for kills
  • The AI takes forever to turn around and fire after moving them
  • They need to be shooting the entire round to get value
  • AI can't shoot on the run accurately
  • Players coming from single player and getting zoned in and not realizing what their AI is doing
How they can be improved?
  • Improve AI
  • Increase numbers
Cavalry will always be the perfect counter to horse archers. Horse archers are really just a one round trick.
Also this is a little off topic but two handed weapons on a horse look ridiculous and shouldn't be possible, how do the character control the horse if he is holding the weapon with two hands? LMAO, this is also another reason why cavalry menavlion, calvalry glaive, need to be removed or improve animations to make them more believeble and look less unrealistic.
The coursers with menavlions and lancer with glaives might be op but they allow for a different approach to cavalry that are better in certain situations than standard shield and polearm cavalry.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Honestly just remove riding "skill" from non cav classes for Skirmish (and IMO the rest of the game) as well.
 

Ulfkarl

Regular
Cavalry will always be the perfect counter to horse archers. Horse archers are really just a one round trick.
exactly, you said it yourself, CAVALRY, not infantry on horses, that needs to change it would be a great buff for horse archers
 

Spottswoode

Veteran
You could just make it so the horse takes off galloping the moment the rider is killed and doesn't require being hit to activate this
 

Brandis.

Subforum Moderator
Cavalry will always be the perfect counter to horse archers. Horse archers are really just a one round trick.

Agree on the latter: they should be a one-round-trick because a meta where horse archers are used every round would be really unfun and oppressive to anyone on the other side.

However, I disagree that cav is always the perfect counter. In Blood of Steel, HA tended to have around the same speed as cav and were fairly accurate. But the enemy cav was also competent, and would butcher the horse archers if they got close. This created a positional skill based dynamic between the two instead of just "well they picked cav so now you lose lol".

If AI is improved, hopefully we can see somewhat of this dynamic in BL.
 

Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This will never be removed, Taleworlds likes that someone could jump on a horse to gallop across map the clutch a round by grabbing a flag when they wouldn’t have been able to on foot.
 

Vattghern

Squire
Well, in principle, the standard solution for Rambo cavalry (limiting the maximum distance between the captain and his troops) will help with this problem. While the captain is chasing horse archers, his squad will not be able to be properly controlled and will either run after the captain or charge. Thus, enemies will easily surround and destroy his troops.
It would also be nice to do something with the imbalance of the two-handed weapon on horseback. For example, worsen the handling of a horse while using a two-handed weapon.
And let the horses run away immediately after the death of the rider, why are they standing on the battlefield !?
And of course, the cavalry AI is the worst AI in this game, they are not at all capable of opposing the enemy player on horseback.
 
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hoonii

Knight
Same for the ****in skirmish.
A peasant mounting a warhorse and using a 2h glaive or a bow on top of it just fine is NOT OK.
 
They finally adjusted perks, infantry is super slow and maneuvers poorly on horse.

It's rock paper scissors. A berserker on a horse is still going to mess up mounted archers if he can catch up to them. Just like they destroy archers if they catch them unawares.
 
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