[BUGS] Support Thread for v3.9

[Nicodemus.]

clearly intended

No.

logical

No.

very useful

And no.


I am not sure if we are (still) talking about the same subject (that is, cavalry braindead when ordered to blunt) since first of all, Konrad a couple replies ago said this is not intended, and it is certainly not useful, I do not find a command that lets horsemen to not even move a muscle while being slashed with 35 different swords in any way, form, or shape useful. and is certainly not logical.

If they still can use lethal weapons but only for stationary self defense then it's even better

Sounds good, except they don't. By completely unresponsive I mean completely - and I repeat: they do not move, block, attack, &c.
Moving on,

doesn't exist in this mod.

Except that it does? if you order your foot troops to use blunt only, they'll start cycling through their weapon inventory, if they do not have a blunt weapon, they then instead choose a weapon of their choice. for whatever reason, this seemed to be impossible to be applied to the cavalry units, so they decided to make the cavalry (with no blunt) to become completely unresponsive after issuing the command.

 

[lconracl]

Just checked this and cavalry without blunt weapon, asked to use only blunt weapon, will defend themselves in all situations except when "charge" order is issued. "Follow me" or "stand ground" works fine.
Still better than cavalry hammering enemies with bare fists.

 

[sher]

Dev is aware and content with current implementation => it's intended => not a bug (vocabulary).

I rarely use this command, only with companions only party so when Leth is not charging with everyone else is fine with me. Later for capturing prisoners I just use f3-f1, f1-f1 and order only my companions to charge since they wield only blunt melee => no problems with self-defense at any time and for max protection you can order only soldiers to fire at any time. These are much simpler commands and don't let anyone move from designated spot even a little so I prefer this method and have no problems at all with prisoners. Blunt only troops are too rare and you can assign them to certain group to command properly but usually if I need all prisoners I can get I compose party solely from such troops so they not mixed with lethal only troops.

For mixed army it could be of use to order them to use blunt weapons first of all but such command was never there, troops acted dumb under such order - fists, no retaliation at all while being killed, and so on.

 

[Nicodemus.]

Just checked this and cavalry without blunt weapon, asked to use only blunt weapon, will defend themselves in all situations except when "charge" order is issued. "Follow me" or "stand ground" works fine.
Still better than cavalry hammering enemies with bare fists.

Well, true. You convinced me. Though you are a lucky person if even a single enemy was hit when the cavalry are following you. At this point you could just order to use any weapons and charge.

Dev is aware and content with current implementation => it's intended => not a bug (vocabulary).

Then why don't the devs go on and make the blunt command do the same thing to cavalry as it does to the foot troops? Unless they are special, they can easily deduce it is much better an option than the current situation.

 

[Gorvex]

Possible bug? https://pop3.fandom.com/wiki/Custom_Knighthood_Order#comm-26810

What about this? Doesn't seem to be the case discussed above (which I'm aware of). More like a new unexpected behaviour from a combo of blunt weapons + 'cannot be used on horseback' crossbows on horseback.

 

[sher]

Then why don't the devs go on and make the blunt command do the same thing to cavalry as it does to the foot troops?

If perfect implementation is not possible and some approximation is OK enough then there's no point in pouring efforts for nothing. Again - I don't use this command at all and take prisoners without problems. With only companions side effects of that command are tolerable, with army I use standard beginning anyway and there's no point in using imperfect command at all. Unless it will work as "use only blunt weapons if you have any" you can achieve what you want with different methods just fine. And it's still more useful than in vanilla.

 

[Nicodemus.]

If perfect implementation is not possible

So it is a bug.

 

[lconracl]

It was implemented in the best possible way taking into account my not perfect coding skills and timeslot.
Am I aware that is not perfect? Yes, I am.
Can I improve it in short term? No, I can't.

 

[Nicodemus.]

It was implemented in the best possible way taking into account my not perfect coding skills and timeslot.
Am I aware that is not perfect? Yes, I am.
Can I improve it in short term? No, I can't.

I am not berating you at all, but there is no point of his continuous refusal to use the word bug to refer to, well, the bug.

 

[sher]

If perfect implementation is not possible

So it is a bug.

Vocabulary.
If you don't know meaning of a word - learn it before usage. With modern tech it takes seconds to find but people still clinging to their delusions.

Can I improve it in short term? No, I can't.

Is it even possible for moders without access to original source code? Soldiers apparently make some weapon switching decisions somewhere, so for warband developers there should be no problems to implement this command properly in first place.

 

[Nicodemus.]

Vocabulary.
If you don't know meaning of a word - learn it before usage. With modern tech it takes seconds to find but people still clinging to their delusions.

Do not know the meaning of a word? Look - I am not the one who seems to have betted some rubles over this argument ending without you admitting that it is a bug. it is clear as the sky that it cannot be fixed by the current dev, that is that the command isn't doing what it is supposed to do, it is called "use blunt weapons" and not "go brain-dead when ordered to charge". Whats so hard to understand?

 

[Dalion]

it is clear as the sky that it cannot be fixed

For me it's not that clear. I have a couple ideas and will try to fix it

 

[diabetes52]

Not exactly a bug, but Jatu units and Noldor Maiden Ranger are nowhere to be seen in the Troop Tree.

 

[Vetrogor]

Bug from Native MS.

When player rebell and create a new Kingdom Lords who where at garrisons do not come out.

Lords do not leave the city in two cases:
1) when there are no enough troops
2) when there are enemy units in the vicinity of the city
When player rebell Lords become enemy of that town. NPC Lords will not be able to exit. Fix excludes the second situation if the lord is in enemy possession.

1. In the scripts.txt file, find npc_decision_checklist_party_ai
2. Counter increase by +3
3. Find 30 2 1224979098644774948 50
4. After this operand, insert
2204 2 1224979098644775039 1224979098644774915 2190 3 1224979098644774924 1224979098644775039 1224979098644774914 30 2 1224979098644774924 0
5. Verify one space before and after.

Spoiler: source code

    #Stand by in current center against enemies       
    (else_try),
      (is_between, ":cur_center_no", walled_centers_begin, walled_centers_end),
     
      (party_get_slot, ":enemy_strength_in_area", ":cur_center_no", slot_center_sortie_enemy_strength),
      (party_get_slot, ":enemy_strength_in_area", ":cur_center_no", slot_center_sortie_enemy_strength),
      (ge, ":enemy_strength_in_area", 50),

(store_faction_of_party, ":cur_center_faction", ":cur_center_no"), 
(store_relation, ":relation", ":cur_center_faction", ":faction_no"),
(ge, ":relation", 0),

 

[Nicodemus.]

it is clear as the sky that it cannot be fixed

For me it's not that clear. I have a couple ideas and will try to fix it

Edited my previous comment. Show us your ways, who knows, you might become the next saint.

 

[Gorvex]

I know that cheats are generally not supported, but this should make an exception imo, as it's quite disturbing while it should be an easy fix. Upon choosing the "make me an elf" option, the player's battle command voices will become female voices, regardless of the gender.

 

[lconracl]

Easy to fix. In the next patch I will change description of this cheat to "make me a gelded elf".

 

[Gorvex]

 

[lconracl]

Bug from Native MS.

When player rebell and create a new Kingdom Lords who where at garrisons do not come out.

Lords do not leave the city in two cases:
1) when there are no enough troops
2) when there are enemy units in the vicinity of the city
When player rebell Lords become enemy of that town. NPC Lords will not be able to exit. Fix excludes the second situation if the lord is in enemy possession.

1. In the scripts.txt file, find npc_decision_checklist_party_ai
2. Counter increase by +3
3. Find 30 2 1224979098644774948 50
4. After this operand, insert
2204 2 1224979098644775039 1224979098644774915 2190 3 1224979098644774924 1224979098644775039 1224979098644774914 30 2 1224979098644774924 0
5. Verify one space before and after.

Spoiler: source code

    #Stand by in current center against enemies       
    (else_try),
      (is_between, ":cur_center_no", walled_centers_begin, walled_centers_end),
     
      (party_get_slot, ":enemy_strength_in_area", ":cur_center_no", slot_center_sortie_enemy_strength),
      (party_get_slot, ":enemy_strength_in_area", ":cur_center_no", slot_center_sortie_enemy_strength),
      (ge, ":enemy_strength_in_area", 50),

(store_faction_of_party, ":cur_center_faction", ":cur_center_no"), 
(store_relation, ":relation", ":cur_center_faction", ":faction_no"),
(ge, ":relation", 0),

I have just checked this:
1. Became marshall of Empire.
2. Took Rela Keep for myself (was D'Shar).
3. Garrisoned there 7700 Twilight Knights, 1200 Huscarls, 600 Black Archers. As a result garrison strength is 3 000 000.
4. I was standing next to the castle with my personal army of 2000 soldiers - strength equal to 700 000.
5. There were 7 Empire lords in my castle, 120-140 soldiers each, which translates to max 12 000 strong parties. (All together max 84 000, even if total is not taken in to consideration, but each lord is a separate case).
6. Conquered new castle, requested ownership, Marius declined, I rebelled and took my fiefs with me.
7. All 7 lords, 12 000 strong each, left Rela Keep where there was 3 000 000 (garrison) or 700 000 (myself) enemies near by.

Was my check correct, or you are talking about something different? If later is the case, how exactly it should be tested?

 

[Vetrogor]

1. Rebell from Fierdsvein
2. Conqer capital Javicsholm
3. Ask for protection to Fierdsvein and become a vassal
4. Lords spawn at Javicsholm and gathering troops
5. Rebelled from Fierdsvein

Lords are siting at Javicsholm and don't come out. They say "enemies_are_reported_to_be_nearby_and_we_should_stand_ready_to_either_man_the_walls_or_sortie_out_to_do_battle"