Britannia 1080 mod General discusion thread/Progress report

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Dimos, your mod is looking very good. I'm sure that 1080 was a good year to crack a few skulls. 

I don't understand why some people would give such low rates to something that isn't released yet. I'm not sure if those dudes would achieve something better. 

Good work!
 
Palos: It was released for 0.960 as a BETA, but as  BoJIxB said those people are so jealous... They are riducullus in my opinion...

I bet that if they attempted something like this that was going to mean the epic failure!
 
Dimos said:
Actually I had some problems with the map editor today and I'll try to fix it tomorrow. I saw the Area around Edinburgh was too big to have 10 villages! I think it is really unrealistic my friend!  :roll:  :grin: ...
Hmmmm...Well if that's the reason you can compare it with a satellite image:
2i0ajhs.jpg

66ytu9.jpg


I made it exactly 1:2 in-game scaled which means 2km in the real Britain would be 1km in-game in this map.

The map in the screenshot is relative to the native size which is the square in the middle. The total playable land area is approximately twice that of Native once mountains are included.
So realistically it's already 4 times smaller area-wise than the real Britain.

Anyway, goodluck on your mod. Looking forward to playing it when it's done :smile:.
 
Dimos said:
henjan: Thanks for the good comment... So far I did the scenes for Castletown and London. Minor fixes will be done though. Maybe tomorrow I'll upload some photos...  :grin:

xDELTAx: Thanks for your support so far  :wink:

Lynores: Please just concentrate on your mod, my friend. I can fix the shorelines myself... That map is work in progress so, surely not complete-100% ready/correct ...  :mrgreen:

Tautvydas_XXL: The BETA is released for m&b 0.960... It has to little stuff in contrary to the ALPHA one which is a work in progress for m&b 1.010/1.011 and -as I hope- will have much more stuff, historical accurate lords and troops -and the beta has some- ...  Just wait a bit for the ALPHA release. Feel free to post your comments/ideas and ask about progress reposts! :razz:

To all: I couldn't speak with Kerosima -maker of the sailing mod, and the one to implement naval battles in my mod as promised- so as to ask him for his progress on the naval scripts. Also I hope that Gallus Domesticus will send me the new map he made for the mod so as I can fix it up a bit.

I almost finished the English and the Scotish troop trees and some mercenaries, so I hope that in less than 1-2 weeks the troops will be 100% ok -I have a limited time you see to do that quiklier- .

Thanks for the comments, Dimos

PS: Feel free to add the mod's supporting banner to your signature...
 
I dont understand you hawe the most work to do of all and you still hawe time for posting  :smile:
 
Actually in the last 2-3 days I did nothing. I'm so tired... I hardly have time to go to the bathroom.... You see I have many more things in real-life and m&b and my guitar is were I pass my spare time...  :razz:

Tomorrow I'll do a bit more work and I hope to have a pre-ALPHA done before -or in- the weekend. Maybe a release will be availiable. Thought I have to work on Vikings, finish Scots and Mercenaries fix up the English a bit and work on irish/welsh as well... About lord names... Anybody has a historical site to look in? Wikipedia has hardly 2-10 Lord names per faction....  :???:
 
Just out of curiosity, was the Scottish kilt used in the time period you're describing? I was under the impression that it only really started being worn in the 17th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_kilt
 
Actually I know that. If you check that thread a guy had mentioned that before... He also mentioned that irish were not wearing kilts but celtic pants as well.
I added the Kilt because the kilt is the representative clothe for Scotland, when you say ''kilt'' Scotland comes to mind ect. I added it because that makes Scotland more unique than the other factions in game and it symbolizes freedom and strengh of soul.  :smile:

Actually I will work the next days if I fing a bit time. I need to do the troops and the textures... Actually thanks for posting and pointing this out. Note that I highly accept and recoment same actions because that helps me make the mod better.  :wink:

Sorry no time to view your source now, but I'll do as soon as possible. Thanks again...  :mrgreen:

 
95Rifles said:
I was going to make an Agincourt mod, but this is okay.

Were longbows around.

I can also help you make weapons and things.

Know this is late but, yes. Longbows had existed for centuries, actually, but were, in the sense of 'English' longbows predominantly the province of the Welsh (who the English eventually employed as most of their longbowmen). The Munstermen in Ireland had a standing guard of two-thousand at Casiel around this time, having imported Welsh yew bows, in imitation of Welsh mercenaries that were common in Ireland to an extent to augment their ranged assets (and Gaelic Scottish and Irish mercenaries were common in Wales mainly as skilled light horse and shock infantry). The longbow was not used so often in massed formations such as in the English use, but rather was employed in more mobile blocks. Longbowmen of the pre-Norman Welsh were often committed to melees though as well, so they'd probably be better armed than their later counterparts (who often lacked a shield, and used hammers, cudgels, axes, and maces, mainly). Toirdelbach's personal citadel guards in Ireland all had longbows, and were considered in high esteem. That'd imply, by Gaelic custom, they'd probably end up with gifts of armor (mail or scale armor, helmets, etc.), as well as other things like land, livestock, and alcohol (considering alcoholic drinks of various types were the preferred drink of the day, given the trouble with finding drinking water, and making other water safe to drink, though, admittedly, with Ireland's many rocky streams that strained much, it wasn't so much a problem, but still, a difficulty). Their job was to man walls and weaken besieging forces with their volleys.

...Anyway, rant over, but, yes, longbows certainly existed. Just, they weren't used in the same capacity as at Agincourt, usually. That is, sometimes they probably did fire massed volleys, but given the mobile nature of Welsh warfare, they'd not be sending volley after volley in quick succession, so much as disorienting enemy positions and excelling at preparing an ambush. They could, of course, at times, mass and decimate, or at least disrupt (near equally as useful; disoriented men who lose formation fight awful) an infantry charge (not so much cavalry at the time, minding their most recent common enemies were Saxons who had little cavalry, though Saxons did have a small amount of native cavalry by the time of Hastings, but had earlier used, and later still used, Welsh and Gaelic mercenaries), but it wasn't really their bread and butter at the time. The marriage of Norman missile tactic with Welsh missile tactic lead to the common use of the Welsh longbow as a massed weapon to disrupt infantry and cavalry. So, yes, longbows aplenty. But they'd mainly be a Welsh specialty. Irish should have a few of them in Munster, but maybe just maintained as a garrison, and incapable of making more, or at least, disallowing any NPC of producing more. A PC should perhaps be allowed to make more, unless NPC Irish only do in tiny number, considering Irish longbows weren't common outside Munster until the Cambro-Norman Invasion made them a major part of warfare in Ireland. It's telling that Munstermen were so resistant in battles in areas on the plains against Normans and Cambrians when most other Irish successes were in marshes and forests... Dammit, I'm rambling again. I'll shut up now.
 
Thanks for the info. Very usefull. Especially the opinion about their arms... Actually, as the topic says the release coming soon!
 
Dimos said:
Thanks for the info. Very usefull. Especially the opinion about their arms... Actually, as the topic says the release coming soon!
HURRAY !!! But i got a question couse i dont think this sites clock runs the same as mine countrys thats why i want to know which day of november will the weekend start?
 
Actually which is your country? I had some really serious problems in the map-fixing and correction, and encountered erros... Actually I fixed that up but I have to re-do some work.... Hope that the BETA will be out soon. Thanks for the undertsnding dude...

Dimos
 
If I may, some recommendations for mercenaries:

Native to the islands:

Anglo-Danish Infantry - Coming from York and parts of southern Scotland, they had been a part of Scottish armies and English armies for decades, and remained part of the new Norman armies for a time. Essentially a blend of Saxon and Danish heavy infantry, so think mail coats, iron helmets, swords, axes, javelins, etc. Some fought as far as southern France, and they served in various capacities in Britain and Ireland during different conflicts. Not as far ranging as others I may mention, but definitely influential in the battles of the day for the region.

Anglo-Saxon Infantry - Even after the Norman conquest, the Saxon military continued to exist for decades, in whole armies, or just isolated pockets. Anglo-Saxon warriors fought for the Norman English, as well as the Bretons, French, and Flemish, and for the Scots and Irish in their wars. Saxon warriors were fighting under Leinstermen as late as 1090, at least, and had fought in attempts by the Leinstermen to recover the English kingship from the Normans (Harold's sons Ulf and Harold were probably part of the Leinsterian court even). Dispossessed Saxon warriors would be good.

Gaelic Horsemen - Pony-mounted light cavalry with javelins from Scotland and Ireland, very popular as skirmishers and for harassing supply lines. They were armed for a melee, but their real strength lay in their fast moving, stout ponies, and their skill with darts and javelins. Would reasonably also be the light horse of Irish and Scottish armies (minding Gaelic Scots and Irish were near identical at the time but for the slightest differences).

Gaelic Shock Infantry - With padded coats and jackets, leather or iron caps, swords or axes, and javelins aplenty. Very popular mercenaries for centuries, they came from Ireland and Scotland. Their value predominantly lay in their mobility and their missiles that they used to disorient an enemy position before charging (like later, the Irish mercs at Falkirk were used to disrupt the Scottish schiltrons, and were a deciding factor in the English victory). Like other Gaelic soldiers, they had their own form of a shieldwall (which was, I'd note, NOT a Norse or Saxon introduction, Gaelic shieldwalls show up in myth that predate such entanglements, and ancient Celts employed them as well). They were highly valued, and they were typically very experienced soldiers. Such men fought all over Europe, and had a great reputation.

Gall-Gaedhil Infantry - They were considered absolutely horrifying to fight, because they were fearless and utterly terrifying. While the wealthy ones, like their chiefs, would have shields and swords and such, akin to any wealthy Gaelic warrior, the poor would fight in little or even no clothing, usually not carry a shield, and often employed cudgels and axes in addition to darts, slings, bows, and javelins. They came from Norse-Gaelic cities, islands, and clans in Ireland and Scotland. They even had a specific type of ship that they invented themselves, called the Nyvaig, which combined Norse and Gaelic ship building techniques, and employed a covered 'fighting top' from which missiles could be expelled easily, but minimizing the return risk, serving a similar purpose to that of an arrow slit on a tower or castle. In later centuries, William Wallace used an army of them to terrorize English holdings, take slaves and cattle, and destroy whole towns.

Welsh Horsemen - Welsh horse was light and fast, mainly, though heavy Welsh horse had existed since the fall of the Roman Empire, in imitation of Roman heavy cavalry (which was itself imitating the heavy cavalry of Greeks, Persians, and Celts on the continent). Welsh knights and light cavalry were a large portion of their army. Welsh horsemen mainly used javelins and short, light bows, making them among the few regular horse archers in western Europe. They excelled at raiding and harassment, and saw use in English and Gaelic armies, as well as French and German, and of course their own.

Welsh Bowmen - Longbows and shortbows. Welsh bowmen, do they need explanation? Though they should be armed better than most archers for a melee.


From outside the isles:

Flemish Infantry - So many of these guys were settled in parts of lowland Scotland they gave rise to their own clans, though that's a bit later. However, they were hired by the English and Scottish. Primarily valued as spearmen, held in pretty high esteem too.

Norman Adventurers - Tons and tons of these guys streamed across the channel for more work and land, and didn't exclusively work for the English. Their gear would be a very mixed bag, some would be horsemen, some wouldn't be, but, there'd be loads of them. Could simply divide them into free knights and infantry if you take that to mind.

Breton Infantry (and Horsemen) - Warriors from Brittany had served in the Norman invasion force under William, and also served in Welsh and Scottish armies. The Bretons fought all over Europe in a capacity as both light horse and medium and heavy infantry, often employing cudgels and hammers, as well as native Breton swords.

French Knights - Had also served in William's army, and also saw employment as mercenaries by the Scots, which precipitated France and Scotland's ties getting stronger, coupled with Norman settlement in the lowlands.
 
Somairle: Great info... Thanks ... Be sure that I'll include what seams most important of it.

ShlurpleZePurple: Glad to see that people recognise my work. If you want to support the mod add its banner to your signature. -If you don't know how and you want to do it pm me- actually too many map  :shock: problems...  I'll fix them as soon as possible. Hope in 1-2 weeks the most to have that almost ready...
 
Well that is surely of topic.

By the way. The mod is going Great, though the map is going bad. I may release the beta soon with the old map so please requests for troops/ textures/ stuff are accepted.
 
Some Irish lords;

Toirdelbach Ua Briain, high king of Ireland, without much opposition at the time, though Domnall Ua Lochlainn would soon be a pain for him and for his tanist. Used his grandfather Brian's two-handed sword and fought with his foot guards in battle.

Muirchertach Ua Briain, son of the high king Toirdelbach Ua Briain, Muirchertach was a prince in Munster, and eventually became king of Ireland himself. His father had set him up as king of Dublin

Diarmait Ua Briain, another son of Toirdelbach, and rival of his brother Muirchertach

Cenn-felaid Ua Briain, cousin of the ruling family of Munster, chieftain of the Aran Islands. The island O'Briens were essentially a clan composed entirely of pirates and extortionists who taxed all shipments into and out of Galway, and were at seeming random vassals of the Munstermen and the Connachta.

Goll na Gorta Ua Mathgamna, king of Ulster

Madudan Reamhar Ua Madadhan, sub-king of Síol Anmchadha in Hy-Many

Maelruanaidh mac Tadhg, king of Moylurg in Connacht

Mael Sechlainn Ban mac Conchobair Ua Mael Sechlainn, king of Meath

Donnchad mac Domnaill Remair ('the Fat'), king of Leinster

Tadhg Ua Cellaigh, king of Hy-Many

Mael Sechlainn mac Gilla Brigde Ua Faelan, king of Deis Mumhain

Áed mac Art Uallach Ua Ruairc, king of Connacht (though opposed by Ruaidrí na Saide Buide Ua Conchobair, a claimaint for the title)

Aodh Ua Baoigheallain, king of Airgialla in Ulster

Áed mac Néill, king of Aileach in Ulster

Máel Ísu mac Amalgada, high abbot of the church in Ireland, from Ard Macha (Armagh), wielded considerable political power due to his position in the local church, and, like other high Gaelic clergy, he had his own army. Ireland was mainly divided into monastic territories for the church, each possessing their own militia and largely operating like a Gaelic clan or tribe. It wasn't until the Synod of Rathbreasail in 1111 that the Irish church became more diocesan instead of monastic. Grandfather of future abbot and eventual archbishop of Armagh, St. Cellach, who helped convene the aforementioned synod (though it was the brainchild of Gillebert, archbishop of Limerick). St. Cellach had just been born in 1080.

Máel Pátraic mac Airmedaig, archbishop of Ard Macha. Like Máel Ísu, this meant considerable authority, not just in Ireland but also in Britain and on the continent. The two controlled one of the first real proto-monasteries in western Europe.

Gilla Pátraic, second bishop of Dublin

Domnall Ua Lochlainn, rival of Muirchertach and earlier, rival of Toirdelbach, for high king

Edit:

Listed Donnchad Remhair twice, he was king of Osraige at the time as well as Leinster, having seized it from Domnall mac Gilla Patráic, though he'd be replaced in 1090 by Domnall mac Gilla Patráic's relation, Gilla Patráic Ruad.
 
I have High King Domhnall mac Lochlain, as King of Ireland in the mod, and Muirchertach Ua Briain as rival-king. Checked wiki. You have helped me with that my friend thanks. I'll credit you if you like....

Do you like to add you in the credits?

I worked on Irish. They mostly wear pants and they are dressed in grren colours...

EDIT: Are those names checked and historically correct? If someone has a different opinion reply here please

 
Those should be the right names, but I may have missed a few fada in the spellings. In any event, Domnall wasn't king (wasn't even claiming to be in 1080, yet, and Toirdelbach was pretty solidly king of a bit more than half of Ireland).  It's notable that when Toirdelbach died, even his northern rivals recorded him as 'King of all Ireland', which they rarely applied to high kings from the south (Leath Moga), choosing typically only to recognize kings from the north (Leath Cuinn) as true high kings due to Niall of the Nine Hostages and his progeny (the Ui Neill tribe and the associated clans). However, Toirdelbach's authority, and his seizing of Teamhair (Tara), coupled with his powerful army and a pretty loyal host of underlings (though his authority in Leinster was maintained in part by playing the rival Ui Dunlainge and Ui Cheinnselaig against one another to keep them too busy to be any bother to him) made sure he got recognized as king.

Domnall's name is funny. Only sometimes is he called Mac Lochlainn, which, by Irish patronymics, is incorrect. His obituary uses Domnall mac Artgair meic Lochlainn, but he was most often called Domnall ua Lochlainn (Lochlainn being his grandfather).

The Irish dressed the same as Scots, but without Scots in the old style clothing, I don't know what you'd really want to do with their clothing, lest some one can make the leine and bratt. Professional Irish soldiers certainly shouldn't wear trousers though, it's below their station. The large padded coat would be pretty accurate armor for most mid-class Gaelic soldiers, though it'd have been worn with a cloak. The best advice for their equipment I can give though is to make sure they have loads of javelins.

Edit:

Picture added. Actually medieval Scottish highlanders and islanders, but the Irish dressed the same as this, except they'd have cloaks.



Also, the main associated colors the Irish used at the time were blue, yellow, and red. Green was most notable on the banner of the kings of Leinster. The high king's banner was probably that of the Munstermen at the time, which was probably NOT the modern flag of Munster, that is, the three gold crowns on a blue field, but it was probably blue, due to the myth of Mor Muman, a woman who represented the land and was 'married' to the lawful kings of Munster, who wore a deep blue dress. However, it may have been the flag of Mide, depicting the high king seated on a throne, on a soft blue field.

Edit 2:

Also, on the Irish (and Scots, for that matter), stat-wise, they should be very fast moving, relatively. Among the key attributes of Gaelic warriors was their ability to fight effectively even in poor terrain by superior use of their mobility. The Irish, during the Cambro-Norman Invasion, did best by luring Norman forces into wooded or marshy areas, then flanking them at the same time as a frontal charge. Their superior speed and mastery of the shieldwall allowed them to rip apart medieval Norman-English forces in such conditions with minimal casualties. It should definitely, I think, be one of their big strengths, coupled with the prevalence of javelins to weaken and disrupt the enemy line during the charge. Also, on the march, the Gaels could cover huge amounts of terrain swiftly. The only English comparison I can think of is Harold's hasty move south to engage the Normans, and Saxons had a similar infantry focus (though not identical).

OH! And some fun characters maybe, Ulf and Harold. They'd be 14 in 1080, but were the sons of Harold Godwineson, and were probably in the court of Leinster. Harold had been a friend of the Leinstermen, and allies. Leinstermen and Dubliners had even tried to help invade England to restore the Saxon kingship. The twins, or their cousins who were also in Leinster, could be some great characters. Like, having a quest for Irish characters to raid Cornwall in exchange for a Saxon hero joining them, with his personal guards (good quality Saxon warriors), and maybe more if there are successful raids in England. I don't know how well that'll work, but, it's a thought, and would exercise the political dynamics of the day between the islands.
 
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