Better Horses Mod (v1.2) Looking for horse armour texturers!

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Wait... you can rig in 3ds max? Did I mention I am pro with that program!? Someone, tell me how to get the skelly info and I will give it a shot! *is excited*

Also, re the textures, I have two new ones, a red roan sumpter and an awesome dark bay saddle horse, but i'm far too lazy to post pics ^_^ I know you'll all still love me though.

...

Right? =3
 
saregona said:
Wait... you can rig in 3ds max? Did I mention I am pro with that program!? Someone, tell me how to get the skelly info and I will give it a shot! *is excited*

Also, re the textures, I have two new ones, a red roan sumpter and an awesome dark bay saddle horse, but i'm far too lazy to post pics ^_^ I know you'll all still love me though.

...

Right? =3

Well you definately should try it. First, you can find a few plugins for importing and exporting .smd files here:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,15272.0.html

First thing to get the skeletal info is to export a Native horse (in .smd format) using BRF edit (be sure to export one from 1.011). That file will hold the mehs, the skeleton and the rigging info from that Native horse. Import that .smd into 3ds max using max script (the plugins I mentioned above). If all is well, you should notice that the rigging is screwed because the current BRF edit is unable to export (and import) it correctly. So the trick is to exactly recreate the error, because then importing it with BRF will nullify the problem. Take a look at pages 75-77 of this thread for more: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,42454.1110.html

Especially take a look at this post: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,42454.msg1368841.html#msg1368841
Following the approach described there should hand you the know how to rig custom horses in "two seconds". I've tried but I've never been able to do any rigging in max (exporting is the problem with me). But Dain Ironfoot has gotten it to work.

If you PM me your email address, I will send you the mesh of my buffed up horse so you can give it a shot.

*is excited too  :lol:*

Niek
 
Re SantasHelper,

Yer, open source I guess, as long as people tell me where they are going to use them via PM so that I can actually see how they're being used (just 'cos I'm a curious little lady), and you don't need to ask permission for the textures. So, yer, open and shizzle  :grin: Oh, and thanks for the wuv! ^_^ *is warmed and fuzzied*

HOWEVER.

Big news.

I have a new horse mesh in the works. A sexy horse mesh. Very sexy. Plus equally sensual textures for said horse mesh. If I can get the skelly to fit it and work out the god awful rigging goes (before I stab myself in the eye out of frustration), then I will release this to you all. You WILL have to ask permission to use my new mesh if you wish to do so. This mesh has.

* A proper mane
* properly modelled ears, lips, nostrils, eyes and body shape
* more realistic conformation
* a conservative poly count
* drop dead gorgeous array of textures
* Spec and alpha maps for shiney coat and proper mane and tail transparency (maybe)
* Slightly different meshes for the horse types  (and maybe some different horse types)
* betterness in general

Here are some pictures of the beefed up hunter mesh I've done, based on a Percheron horse --

headgl5.jpg

head2ja0.jpg

horse1uf9.jpg

horse2lm5.jpg

Ain't he magnificent? All for 1638 polys, only 138 more than the original.

I also want to add bridle and reins, stirupps maybe and slightly altered/new but similar animations to this if I can work out/be told how to get this into game. You see, doing the modelling/rigging/animation isn't hard for me in the least... it's getting it into the game that threatens to blow up my poor brain. I'm all about the creative side, but the technical side gives me the fear like nothing else...

Just like I'm nothing short of awesome at painting textures, but I can't UVW map to save my life...

So, yeah, this is obviously going to be a big project, so please don't be nagging me about it =D

ANY HELP YOU COULD OFFER ME ABOUT GETTING THIS IN GAME OR TEXTURE MAPPING, PLEASE BE GIVING IT! <3

If I can't work out how to get it in, I will promptly not bother and it will just be a mod resource... and that would make the worlds kittens very, very sad.

If you want to partner up on this Niek, I will love you forever. Seriously <3

Bow before Sarrie, your friendly neighbourhood Horse Goddess -- Get it, NEIGHbourhood... har har har... *shoots self in the face*
 
Hey there!

Looks great! Very nice horse head. Just one comment: it's a bit too big for the body if you ask me. Beefing up the body may fix it satisfactory, but you may have to increase the outer dimensions. As long as you don't make it too much bigger it shouldn't be a big problem with the skeleton. You may shrink the head a bit too of course.

Anyway, tell me what you need. I'm assuming you based this off my beefed up hunter, looking at the feet? Is any of the UV mapping still ok? Also, you have to make sure the mane and the rest of the mesh are one. Custom animations are at current not possible unfortunately, so the mane will have to be static.

Regarding the rigging: do you feel comfortable in copying the BRF export error, so as to nullify it when it's imported again? Otherwise you may have to give that a shot before you put an overly large amount of work in it.

Finally, while you're at it, you may want to change the saddle to something like this, so the horse will be more universally usable regarding other than medieval timeframes.
_wsb_503x413_med4aweb.jpg

So, let me know what you need and I'll see what I can do for you.

Niek
 
Actually, that head, though it seems big, is just how a percheron is. Draught horses have a large, heavy head. I think it looks particularily large though, because you can't really see the full depth to his girth (the, um, tummy) and I think that his hind quarters need to be a little bit more on the heavy side. But, you know, it's going to require tweaking until I'm totally happy with it.

Yep, sorry I forgot to mention before, this is based off of Njiek's altered pony with thicker legs =D So Njiek also deserves some praise for this.

To answer your other questions, no, the mapping got itself killed somehow... at a point some of it was intact, then the next time I checked it was all useless.

I was thinking of having the mane as sort of a risen thing on the horses neck to look like there's hair there, while saving polys, while keeping it static. Maybe on one horse type (sumpter or steppe pony or maybe both) I'll have the mane cropped short so it sticks up, with cropped tail to match on the sumpter. I'll show you what I mean when I get around to doing it.

Rigging.. now there's something I failed miserably at... I tried and did little but confuse myself. I will keep trying though, if you could explain it better to me that would be awesome?

I could certainly give the saddle a shot. Seeing as it looks like I'll be painting mapping entirely new textures anyway... *sighs*

And all I really need from you is rigging help at the moment :razz: And input, and ideas and such.

 
Looked em up and indeed, the percheron does have a very heavy head. Then just focus on making the hindquarters and tummy a bit more robust and you'll have a nice one there.

About the UV mapping: that's probably because you added the manes. What you could do instead of adding new masses, is to extrude part of the horse's neck. That'll probably save your UV map.

Regarding the rigging: using 3ds max it is apparently quite easy. If you want to know more about it, you could try to PM Dain Ironfoot. He's done it that way so he can explain it best. It is also possible to paint every single vertex one by one, but that is a real pain in the ass. I did it once and it took me over 3 hours only to find that there was an import/export error in BRF. If you want to copy that error by hand though, I estimate it will take a lot longer because it is very difficult to see each separate vertex weight. And not only do I not have so much time, it's also very likely that I cannot copy it precise enough for it to work correct.

In short: your best bet is the 3ds max method. Meanwhile I'll try a different workaround, but don't get your hopes up for that one as I estimate its chances of success slim at best.
Should we manage to rig one horse correctly, things will get a lot better. Instead of rebuilding an .obj file, we can then move the vertices of the rigged .smd around. It's probably not a problem to add vertices then either. Thus, we save ourselves a lot of rigging work.

I suggest you work on the 3ds max method and I'll try my method in the meantime. We'll see what happens.

Niek
 
Yay! Help! Thanks Santa :smile:

If you give me your email I can just email it to you, which is much easier for me. What format do you want it in, .obj I assume? I wanted to give the new saddle a shot and tweak the model some more before doing anything else as well.

Also, on a side note, you are doing an amazing job of texturing that samurai armour. Aside from the flamboyant purple silk which you're already going to fix :razz: it looks awesome.
 
Well, I managed to get the mesh in game.

It is, however, NOT happy to be there :razz:

I experienced basically the same "horse leg spagetti" as Njiek did, plus the hindquarters being retarded and occasional head spasms... So, I'm PMing the good sir Dain Ironfoot to beg him for a detailed explaination of how to replicate the error using 3DS Max, because I still don't quite understand it  :shock:

I'll get back to you all soon!
 
saregona,

An idea: if you extract a rigged .smd from the 1.011 brf, and import that into 3ds max, you can move the verts around and by doing so beef up the horse. As long as you don't add any verts, you can simply import it back into BRF and it should work. If you do add verts (if that's possible), you'll have to determine how to weight them yourself. I'll have a go at this myself when I can get back to my computer.

Good luck and keep me posted.

Niek
 
Wow, Saregona, your work so far is impressive! Keep it up - looking forward for the release with inocent impatience... :smile:

One lil' request, if I may: one particular horse type holds my heart - the Friesian... Any chance you'd add a retex for it, or even tweak the custom mesh you are working on, so it'll have a more appropriate shape (it is, indeed, the direct descendant of the mediaeval warhorse, along with the stronger Shire)? You'd have my ethernal gratitude... :smile:

Cheers,
PKR.
 
Funnily enough I was going to make a Friesian mesh too, for a hunter replacement - sort of a light warhorse. It's historically inaccurate to have a Friesian as a warhorse but I just don't care :razz:

As well as that I'm making an Arabian type for the "courser", a Throroughbred type for the "saddle horse", a primative native pony type (see Przewalski's horse, Norwegian Fjord horse - but built a bit lighter than those breeds, perhaps a bit of Sumba pony influence thrown in there) for the "steppe horse", a small draft type for the "sumpter" (perhaps something close to, but smaller than, the Percheron horse, whose ancestors were the original medieval european farm horses - or some type of chunky pony), and for the actual big warhorse (warhorse and charger using the same base mesh) I'm definately ising the Ardennais as reference (a french breed who is a direct descendant, a base progenitor type, of the Great Horses of knights of the Middle Ages)

There will be armoured and unarmoured versions of most of these --

Sumpter -- sorry buddy, no one wants to armour their pack horse =P
Saddle - same again, this fellow is just a merchants mount or a riding horse
Steppe - either unarmoured or with leather and cloth chest plate and hindquarter guard - very light armour
Courser - unarmoured or with leather chest and hindquarter guards/light leather barding - light/medium armour
hunter - unarmoured/leather barding/mail and leather barding - meduim/heavy armour
Warhorse - unarmoured/mail barding/metal plate and mail barding - heavy/very heavy armour

Give me feedback on what you all think of this.

I also want to make a set of modern horses, which will have a more contempory leather saddle and bridle, which I'm sure you'll all love for more modern day/wild west etc expansions.


And finally, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to go on a short rant here, just to educate you all.

It is a MYTH that Shires were ever used as warhorses, by the way, as they are simply far too new a breed - having only been developed in the 19th century.
Nor were Friesians ever used as medieval mounts for knights - they were, and still remain, Royal Horses of Europe along with the Andalusian, Lustiano and Lipizzaner horses, who form this groups as old Haute Ecole breeds, being breeds that excel in and were BRED for High School Dressage. Though it is likely that they did descend from warhorses of the middle ages and have their blood in there somewhere's - but most modern European breeds do.
Same again with Percherons... though they are a fittingly old breed, they have come up through the ages as a FARM HORSE :razz: Unsuitable to be ridden by a fully armoured knight, they have only ever been used, since the dawn of the breed, as either farm horses or cart horses, or (more recently) as a heavy riding horse.
And this remains true for the Clydesdale - never ever a warhorse, too tall, too hollow beneath the legs. Only ever a draught/farm/carriage horse.

So don't anyone say that these breeds were warhorses. They were not.

End rant.
 
Thank you, you brought some happiness to my old heart... :smile:

Anyway, you misread a bit my post: I didn't say the Friesian or the Shire were warhorses - I said they are the descendants of the warhorse (see the History section on these snipets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friesian_horse and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shire_horse). Nevertheless, as you well-said, was it true or not, it doesn't really matter, I'd have anyday a Friesian as a Warhorse in M&B. Or in real-life, as a good friend! :smile:

EDIT: an even better history of the Friesian: http://www.baroqueclassicfriesians.com/history.htm
 
Ohhh, PKR, that rant wasn't directed at you... I knew what you meant - I'm just so sick of people getting that wrong that I decided to go on a rant. I'm sorry, it was nothing against you, honest! :grin:

But, that aside, I adore Friesian horses too and I'd take one as a war horse anyday :smile:

--

In addition to silliness, I've now finished the Sumpter (Percheron based) mesh and the Saddle Horse (Thoroughbred based) mesh. Here, have some pics --

comparisondr8.jpg

comparisonheadhr0.jpg

sumpter2zk8.jpg

sumpter3jm3.jpg

sumpter4br0.jpg

sumpter1di2.jpg

thorough1eq0.jpg

thorough2ed0.jpg

thorough3ut0.jpg

thorough4wn6.jpg

Yay.

I think I might make the Sumpter look a little more, er, naggish though - if you know what I mean. A little less well bred. Yeah, that.

Tell me what y'all think.
 
saregona,

Look good, but I only see the first two screenies. The rest seems to be screwed. Make the saddle horse a bit more of an old dafty yeah. Hollow back, ears flat, crappy saddle, etc.

Regarding the different horse breeds: I wouldn't care too much about if they were or were not used in battle in the medieval times. Since it'll basically be an open source package and there are other mods in different time frames that's fine.

Perhaps it could be interesting, although someone would have to design some kind of gameplay aspect related to it, to have some of the packing horses have no saddle but actual packs and stuff. Or maybe even a yoke to pull a wagon or plow of some sort. They could just walk around in villages, but some modder could also design a caravan raiding quest where there are some rider-less horses and carts around. Just a thought.

Niek
 
Okies, sorry about the stupid sceenies, they should be fixed now.

Here's moar though -- a less well bred looking Sumpter horse. Probably use the nicer mesh as the heavy warhorse once I fill it out some more and make him look more regal and refined. This, er, improved Sumpter features a cropped mane and tail, a chubby belly and a slightly dipped back. Might make the head a bit bigger too... I don't know...

naggysumpwb5.jpg

naggysump2sy2.jpg

naggysump3ph3.jpg

naggysump4gn7.jpg
 
saregona said:
Ohhh, PKR, that rant wasn't directed at you... I knew what you meant - I'm just so sick of people getting that wrong that I decided to go on a rant. I'm sorry, it was nothing against you, honest! :grin:

But, that aside, I adore Friesian horses too and I'd take one as a war horse anyday :smile:

--

In addition to silliness, I've now finished the Sumpter (Percheron based) mesh and the Saddle Horse (Thoroughbred based) mesh. Here, have some pics --

comparisondr8.jpg

comparisonheadhr0.jpg

sumpter2zk8.jpg

sumpter3jm3.jpg

sumpter4br0.jpg

sumpter1di2.jpg

thorough1eq0.jpg

thorough2ed0.jpg

thorough3ut0.jpg

thorough4wn6.jpg

Yay.

I think I might make the Sumpter look a little more, er, naggish though - if you know what I mean. A little less well bred. Yeah, that.

Tell me what y'all think.
Aye, no problem there, I also wanted to clarify it for other forum members interested in the subject.

To me it is amazing that, will all the ressources available, there are still games such as M&B and Oblivion (to name only 2 of my faves) which use only one horse mesh, although it is well-known that the horse was one of the most important elements of the medieval knight, if not the most important (there cannot be a knight without a horse, no?). So your work graces this particular game in such a great way I can't describe - thank you! Can't wait to have this horse variety in game!

Cheers,
PKR.
 
Yeah sure :razz:

- Pack horse (percheron mesh) = mesh done
- Riding horse (thoroughbred mesh) = mesh done
- Heavy warhorse (ardennais mesh) = mesh done
- Light warhorse (arabian mesh) = mesh done + UV mapping started (damn hard to do...)

- Steppe pony (native pony mesh) = not started
- Medium warhorse (friesian mesh) = not started

I will also start the new tex when I have finished the first UV map. They'll all use the same textures, just mapped differently to fit nicely. Clever me. I'm too lazy to post pics. Maybe I will when they're all done so you can see them standing together in all their differing glory.

Sarrie is done here for now, but feel free to prod me more for things. I like questions. :grin: Otherwise I'll just continue silently working on things and they will be all finished in a short while. I'm efficient. And cranky. Jerks didn't offer me a university place and now I must slander them. They blow.

Sarrie (is a cranky 3D modeller/tex artist)


 
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