Beta Patch Notes e1.8.0

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Battles are starting to look MUCH better now that armour has been fixed against melee weapons and cavalry can actually charge down infantry.

But four glaringly obvious flaws still remain:
* Melee cavalry miss 90% of the stab attacks they attempt, and only couch their lances in the specific situation of charging downhill.
* Archers/crossbowmen are still the most deadly thing on the battlefield by a big margin, they frequently have the highest killcount. Armour's resistance to arrows needs to increase by 1.5-2x.
* Troops vibrate at high speed like Radical Larry when fighting at close quarters.
* Spears don't exist in melee combat, troops only use them for fighting cavalry. When they do use them, they're super underpowered.
Could you capture a video of this issue happening?
 

High Solar

Regular
Could you capture a video of this issue happening?
There is no need. Fight a huge battle and check it out for yourself. I think on the last beta patch notes someone made a short video, but you can literally start a custom battle and you will see how infantry bump like crazy when they are up close.

So close in fact that most bump their swords in to their friends which makes them unable to strike the enemy.
 

JunKeteer

Regular
How exactly is the attack range/spacing typically calculated in games like this; or what the weapon ranges number actually signify in relation?
Would it be along the lines of agent center/body 'pylon' + arm/animation extension range + weapons actual range = keep @ range?
Assuming all arms are same length regardless of height for the game, call it 75 + a mace @ 75 should have AI try to keep @ range 150? Even if that is the case, if feels like they all want to close in at 0 range to you.
 
Any news about the future hotfix for 1.8.0? Is the decal missing bug fix on its way to 1.8.0? U guys fixed in 1.7.2, but forgot about the beta
I wholeheartedly agree with this, unfortunately the decals are missing in 1.8.0

It's a bit strange to play when you are missing quite a few basic UI elements which rely on these decals. I struggled to select the Hideout in the start of the campaign. (I am finally playing again after more than a year! Took me a while to figure out why I couldn't see where I had clicked, see any tracks or have any blood in the game..)
 

Pizi_G

Sergeant
infantry bump like crazy when they are up close.
i think in 1.8 its got waaay harder to shove people
so they try to get past but are kinda bounced back

i noticed it in tournaments and found it good, but in big battles its kinda annoying
the map with the bridge bottleneck is kinda funny when 600 want to cross at the same time
 

five bucks

Knight
Could you capture a video of this issue happening?
Sure. Apologies for the terrible quality, I don't usually record videos.

Archers dealing too much damage to armour
Here is a video of archers massacring infantry before they can even reach melee range.

Tested again with different units, me commanding the infantry. Loose formation to present a harder target, and hold fire to reach melee range as quickly as possible. We did better than the AI, but still got murdered.

I also tested with other types of infantry such as Pikemen and got similar results.

Archers are strong against too many types of unit. Even their counter (shield infantry) can be quickly defeated by archers, if there is a small amount of infantry who make the shield infantry drop their shields.

The only thing archers cannot defeat with a tiny bit of assistance is horse archers, because archers do not understand how to lead their shots, and will shoot at where the horse archers were, rather than where they are about to be. This is not representative of real life (where massed archers was the answer to horse archers) and means horse archers effectively have no counter. I have tested battles of mixed T5 armies against just T5 horse archers, where the horse archers easily win with minimal casualties.

Therefore, massing either archers with a small number of distraction infantry, or massing just horse archers, is the obvious best army composition and strategy in Bannerlord that gives the best results in almost all situations and makes Bannerlord a boring solved game.

Two fixes are needed. 1: Make foot archers shoot at where a horse archer is likely to move rather than where it is, and 2:

The protection of armour against arrows should increase 1.5-2x, so that it takes an average of 7-8 chest shots for a T5 archer to kill a T5 unit.

Cavalry being unable to consistently land their attacks
Here is T5 cavalry not couching their lances, and not consistently landing attacks. Framerate is awful, but you get the idea. Similar results with different cavalry and different infantry, and in massed battles of mixed unit types cavalry is even more inaccurate for some reason.

I'll try and figure out what's making the fps bad and do a better video later, because I tested T6 Banner Knights and they were even worse than this, missing a lot of stab attempts as well as not couching, but the video was practically a slideshow.

Troops vibrate at high speed like Radical Larry when fighting at close quarters - I think this one has been amply attested as others such as @Terco_Viejo have mentioned/posted proof:
But here's my video anyway. Despite the bad framerate, hopefully this is good enough proof that the problem still exists.
Another on wall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQSpkPCY_us

Spears not being used in infantry combat -
Here you can see Sturgian Heavy Spearmen not using their spears to fight recruits. I redid this test with a number of differerent spearmen and enemy infantry, e.g. Vlandian Spearman vs Empire Trained Infantryman, Aserai Infantry vs Aserai Infantry; same result. Spear infantry will instantly unequip their spear and equip their sidearm if they are fighting infantry. Though they do use throwing weapons if they have them.
Spears are unrealistically slow, do only normal damage at medium range, and do terrible damage at close range. And even when the AI does use them, they don't understand how to use them properly - they let enemies get very close, and they accidentally hit allies on the backswing which interrupts their attack.
 
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High Solar

Regular
Sure. Apologies for the terrible quality, I don't usually record videos.

Archers dealing too much damage to armour
Here is a video of archers massacring infantry before they can even reach melee range.

Tested again with different units, me commanding the infantry. Loose formation to present a harder target, and hold fire to reach melee range as quickly as possible. We did better than the AI, but still got murdered.

I also tested with other types of infantry such as Pikemen and got similar results.

Archers are strong against too many types of unit. Even their counter (shield infantry) can be quickly defeated by archers, if there is a small amount of infantry who make the shield infantry drop their shields.

The only thing archers cannot defeat with a tiny bit of assistance is horse archers, because archers do not understand how to lead their shots, and will shoot at where the horse archers were, rather than where they are about to be. This is not representative of real life (where massed archers was the answer to horse archers) and means horse archers effectively have no counter. I have tested battles of mixed T5 armies against just T5 horse archers, where the horse archers easily win with minimal casualties.

Therefore, massing either archers with a small number of distraction infantry, or massing just horse archers, is the obvious best army composition and strategy in Bannerlord that gives the best results in almost all situations and makes Bannerlord a boring solved game.

Two fixes are needed. 1: Make foot archers shoot at where a horse archer is likely to move rather than where it is, and 2:

The protection of armour against arrows should increase 1.5-2x, so that it takes an average of 7-8 chest shots for a T5 archer to kill T5 infantry.

Cavalry being unable to consistently land their attacks
Here is T5 cavalry not couching their lances, and not consistently landing attacks. Framerate is awful, but you get the idea. Similar results with different cavalry and different infantry, and in massed battles of mixed unit types cavalry is even more inaccurate for some reason.

Troops vibrate at high speed like Radical Larry when fighting at close quarters - I think this one has been amply attested as others such as @Terco_Viejo have mentioned/posted proof:
But here's my video anyway. Despite the bad framerate, hopefully this is good enough proof that the problem still exists.
Another on wall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQSpkPCY_us

Spears not being used in infantry combat -
Here you can see Sturgian Heavy Spearmen not using their spears to fight recruits. I redid this test with a number of differerent spearmen and enemy infantry, e.g. Vlandian Spearman vs Empire Trained Infantryman, Aserai Infantry vs Aserai Infantry; same result. Spear infantry will instantly unequip their spear and equip their sidearm if they are fighting infantry. Though they do use throwing weapons if they have them.
@Dejan @MArdA TaleWorlds @Callum

Check this chad feedback. Jitterbug can also happen in open field battles.
 

Senko

Sergeant
Tested again with different units, me commanding the infantry. Loose formation to present a harder target, and hold fire to reach melee range as quickly as possible. We did better than the AI, but still got murdered.

I also tested with other types of infantry such as Pikemen and got similar results.

Archers are strong against too many types of unit. Even their counter (shield infantry) can be quickly defeated by archers, if there is a small amount of infantry who make the shield infantry drop their shields.

The protection of armour against arrows should increase 1.5-2x, so that it takes an average of 7-8 chest shots for a T5 archer to kill a T5 unit.
Archers should absolutely massacre infantry units running straight at them with no shields. I don't see a problem here.
Infantry running around with 7 arrows in the chest and still fighting sounds really stupid.
 

nereid

Sergeant
Archers should absolutely massacre infantry units running straight at them with no shields. I don't see a problem here.
Infantry running around with 7 arrows in the chest and still fighting sounds really stupid.
In this case we need some kind of testudo formation for the troops. The shield wall formation will only hold shields into one direction and flanking archers will kill any shield wall without a problem.

Or we need a better control over the cavalry to remove any threat from flanking archers.
 

embet2k19

Recruit
sir can i run this game in 30 fps in a very low settings? i have intel celeron N4000, intel uhd graphics 600, 4gb ram, ssd.
 

Sabaal

Recruit
First playthrough on 1.8 and after 900 days the world looks like this:
Western Empire conquered South and Northern ones.
Sturgia held its ground, Khuzait are under siege from Western, Battania held its fiefs and somehow received most of the clans from the fallen empires.
I'm a vassal to the Aserai and we are wiping the vlandians off the map and suddenly some original Aserai clans start joining them. What is the algorithm for this since Vlandia is poor as hell, their parties sit at maybe 50 low tier units?
Also in 1.7 normally there would be 3 powerhouses almost all the time and they were at war with the biggest one or eachother. Now although western has conquered almost half of the map, seems that only 1 faction is at war with at a time and they get smacked hard with a fief being assaulted by 3-4 armies at once.
I was passive until we started hitting Vlandia so no player impact on the game for maybe 800 days other than workshops and caravans and some defense sieges.

So from my point of view there are some strange happenings :
1 faction totally conquered 2 other factions and the others just standby and don't fight the strongest faction at once, they fight wars between themselves.
Most of the clans from the fallen factions either joined western or battania. All other factions received few clans or none whatsover.
My Aserai faction now has like 6-7 clans including mine (since 3 of the original ones defected to a faction which is very poor) which hold 1-2 towns and 2-3 castles per clan.
Although we are the 2nd strongest faction they won't vote to fight the western empire, the only time we declared war on the western became a powerhouse, the war ended in a few days.

Not a very fun playthrough altogether with the new desertions and a steam rolling western empire full of elite noble troops which are a pain to deal with due to armor changes.
 
When smithing, I seem to get part unlocks which were already unlocked.

For example, just this second the "Ridged Wide Dagger Blade" when completing an order.
 
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