Battania - where is the logic?

[sir Gregor Clegane]

Battania is the most "barbaric" faction in the game, and it would seem that it should have the best shock and mass infantry. However, the opposite is true: Savages are the weakest shock infantry in captain mode. And instead of improving the savages, we got the most armored Battanian infantry in the captain's mode ... I see no logic or historical parallels. That the metalworking of the Irish, Welsh and Scots was better in the Byzantine Empire? I think that the Battania upgrade went the wrong way: you need to improve the savages and return the two-handed hammers to the clan warriors.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Please, for the love of god, do not give weapons that have a 90+ percent chance to crush through to a 100g unit.

Just because a faction is barbaric doesn’t mean it can’t have a proud and rich metalsmithing tradition. I mean in singleplayer the Battania capital of Marunath is home to an extremely profitable smithy, along with silver and iron villages being connected to it.

 

[Surreal120]

Captain and skirmish should be separated in terms of unit stats and equipment. It just isn't sustainable for two modes that play completely differently and call for completely different skill sets to be using the exact same preset stats and weapons. For example: This idea is terrible for skirmish, but idk how it would be for captain because I don't play it.

 

[Alyss]

Battania is the most "barbaric" faction in the game, and it would seem that it should have the best shock and mass infantry. However, the opposite is true: Savages are the weakest shock infantry in captain mode. And instead of improving the savages, we got the most armored Battanian infantry in the captain's mode ... I see no logic or historical parallels. That the metalworking of the Irish, Welsh and Scots was better in the Byzantine Empire? I think that the Battania upgrade went the wrong way: you need to improve the savages and return the two-handed hammers to the clan warriors.

Just so you know, the faction of Battania is based on a faction that had the best steel in all of Europe during its time period.
And also Calradia is a fictive world, so realism is a bad excuse.

 

[Brandis.]

Battania is the most "barbaric" faction in the game, and it would seem that it should have the best shock and mass infantry. However, the opposite is true: Savages are the weakest shock infantry in captain mode. And instead of improving the savages, we got the most armored Battanian infantry in the captain's mode ... I see no logic or historical parallels. That the metalworking of the Irish, Welsh and Scots was better in the Byzantine Empire? I think that the Battania upgrade went the wrong way: you need to improve the savages and return the two-handed hammers to the clan warriors.

There's a coming captain balance patch. TW is aware of how weak Battania is.

Captain and skirmish should be separated in terms of unit stats and equipment. It just isn't sustainable for two modes that play completely differently and call for completely different skill sets to be using the exact same preset stats and weapons. For example: This idea is terrible for skirmish, but idk how it would be for captain because I don't play it.

I think this is the plan.

 

[AJAJP_Juan]

Just so you know, the faction of Battania is based on a faction that had the best steel in all of Europe during its time period.

That's not much to say, the best steel was always on the east for they had ovens that achieved much higher temperatures, and let's not forget that they invented Damascian steel which set the foundation of today's steel. Yes, they are not useless shirtless guys and have a rich metalwork, but that is far from the best in the "game historic" scope. Historic rant over.

 

[sir Gregor Clegane]

Just so you know, the faction of Battania is based on a faction that had the best steel in all of Europe during its time period.
And also Calradia is a fictive world, so realism is a bad excuse.

Ahahaha)Does the armor from Toledo and the Rhine suck?))) Well, show us the famous armor of the Irish, Welsh or Scottish armourers from the 11th century. And how many armor have been found by archaeologists and historians in Scotland and Ireland compared to Byzantium?

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Ahahaha)Does the armor from Toledo and the Rhine suck?))) Well, show us the famous armor of the Irish, Welsh or Scottish armourers from the 11th century. And how many armor have been found by archaeologists and historians in Scotland and Ireland compared to Byzantium?

Celtic civilization was a lot bigger than just Wales, Ireland and Scotland. And like I said, during the Roman Empire the Celts were undeniably very good at metal smithing. Chain Mail was an armor technique that the Romans got FROM the Gallic tribes.

Being mad about it makes no sense anyway. Bannerlord is a game in a world entirely under Taleworlds creative control. If they say that Battanians have good armor then that’s Canon. If Taleworlds came out tomorrow and introduced a tribe with Native American Aesthetics that also happened to use Lions and Bears as cavalry they could do that. It’s their world and their game. They may have drawn inspiration from real world cultures but that by no means that they are married to the details.

 

[Alyss]

Ahahaha)Does the armor from Toledo and the Rhine suck?))) Well, show us the famous armor of the Irish, Welsh or Scottish armourers from the 11th century. And how many armor have been found by archaeologists and historians in Scotland and Ireland compared to Byzantium?

So people really think Bannerlord is a historical game? What's the next thread? "Omg Two-Handed swords on the back is not historically accurate!!!!"
Are you also aware that they used materials spreading over centuries? There are armors from the 7th to 14th century, how about that? You can't make something fully historical (especially if it's not your goal) if you base your work on 7 centuries

 

[sir Gregor Clegane]

So people really think Bannerlord is a historical game? What's the next thread? "Omg Two-Handed swords on the back is not historically accurate!!!!"
Are you also aware that they used materials spreading over centuries? There are armors from the 7th to 14th century, how about that? You can't make something fully historical (especially if it's not your goal) if you base your work on 7 centuries

I wrote about logic, see the title of the topic, you switched to history by mentioning "the best steel". Although not one historical example of the 11th century "the best steel" has not been given. I agree Bannerlord is not a historical game, and that now we are going to make barbarians in the most protected armor and civilized infantry more terrible than berserkers?

Celtic civilization was a lot bigger than just Wales, Ireland and Scotland. And like I said, during the Roman Empire the Celts were undeniably very good at metal smithing. Chain Mail was an armor technique that the Romans got FROM the Gallic tribes.

Being mad about it makes no sense anyway. Bannerlord is a game in a world entirely under Taleworlds creative control. If they say that Battanians have good armor then that’s Canon. If Taleworlds came out tomorrow and introduced a tribe with Native American Aesthetics that also happened to use Lions and Bears as cavalry they could do that. It’s their world and their game. They may have drawn inspiration from real world cultures but that by no means that they are married to the details.

I'm not angry, I just want some logic to be present in the game, and Battania was made playable in captain mode.

 

[Alyss]

I wrote about logic, see the title of the topic, you switched to history by mentioning "the best steel". Although not one historical example of the 11th century "the best steel" has not been given. I agree Bannerlord is not a historical game, and that now we are going to make barbarians in the most protected armor and civilized infantry more terrible than berserkers?

I'm not angry, I just want some logic to be present in the game, and Battania was made playable in captain mode.

"barbarians" "civilized". lul.
Celts were pretty civilized dude, I don't see why they can't have armor. Idk if you know, but the whole 'naked soldiers yelling with painting on their face jumping on shield walls' thing is a myth.

 

[sir Gregor Clegane]

"barbarians" "civilized". lul.
Celts were pretty civilized dude, I don't see why they can't have armor. Idk if you know, but the whole 'naked soldiers yelling with painting on their face jumping on shield walls' thing is a myth.

You give me at least one example of the famous Celtic armor of the early or middle Middle Ages. Should I not believe archaeological finds and historical reconstructions, but trust empty, unsubstantiated chatter? And what does the Celts have to do with living 1000 years before the events under discussion? Where is the archaeological evidence for the "best Celtic" steel of the 10-12th centuries?

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

You give me at least one example of the famous Celtic armor of the early or middle Middle Ages. Should I not believe archaeological finds and historical reconstructions, but trust empty, unsubstantiated chatter? And what does the Celts have to do with living 1000 years before the events under discussion? Where is the archaeological evidence for the "best Celtic" steel of the 10-12th centuries?

What on earth even makes you think Bannerlord is about the early or middle ages? Its clearly meant to represent a timeframe akin to Total War: Attila and the period immediately after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. Youre off by a few hundred years. Just because the game has a start date set to 1000 doesnt mean 1000 is calradia is anything close to 1000 in our own timeline.

Either way its a silly thing to ask for, because the Cultures in Mount&Blade often represent cultures as a whole rather than that particular culture in an exact moment in history. Rhodoks in Warband still have "tribesmen" fighting alongside Renaissance Pavise Crossbowmen. Pretty sure there wernt viking huskarls running around during the same time as the Mongol Empire and its Khans, yet we see both in Warband. Its just a really strange hill to die on.

If you want Battania to have better "shock" inf, then fine. No problem there, but its weird to insist that they need to look a certain way just to fit a stereotype for what you think that culture should look like. From a game balance perspective, I understand where you are coming from. You want Battania to have better shock inf because shock inf are the overwhelming meta in captain mode, but Battania having good 2handers doesnt mean they arent allowed to have a heavily armored inf class.

Just another case where the Captain and Skirmish players want completely different things out of a facton. Split! The! Balance!

 

[Alyss]

You give me at least one example of the famous Celtic armor of the early or middle Middle Ages. Should I not believe archaeological finds and historical reconstructions, but trust empty, unsubstantiated chatter? And what does the Celts have to do with living 1000 years before the events under discussion? Where is the archaeological evidence for the "best Celtic" steel of the 10-12th centuries?

Ebdanian explained it better than me. The cultures from Bannerlord are inspired by many centuries of our history, so you can’t make it historically accurate. Take for exemple the Heavy cav armor of khuzait: it’s inspired from an armor from the late 14th century of our world especially the helmet but the game is Set in year 1000 of calradia. On the other hand the architecture, troop names and culture of the empire is clearly based on the Roman Empire. So yes it’s obvious that a 14th century culture has better steel than a 5th/4th century culture in our world. But when you mix cultures from multiple centuries but they can do whatever they want.

 

[HancockT35]

Battania is pretty solid in Skirmish right now and completely dog in Captain. Just shows how the 2 game modes just need to be balanced separate.

 

[Tork789]

Omg Two-Handed swords on the back is not historically accurate!!!!

You wouldn't believe it, but I remember a thread just about that. Plus we get regular threads after each Scholagladiatora video where he mentions Bannerlord, also the video with a bunch of plastic spear larpers from Lindybeige is the most reposted video here.

 

[Caps]

Battania is pretty solid in Skirmish right now and completely dog in Captain. Just shows how the 2 game modes just need to be balanced separate.

just give savages 3 a few more units and you will see their winrate skyrocket. shock inf scales really well with unit sizes in cpt mode

You give me at least one example of the famous Celtic armor of the early or middle Middle Ages. Should I not believe archaeological finds and historical reconstructions, but trust empty, unsubstantiated chatter? And what does the Celts have to do with living 1000 years before the events under discussion? Where is the archaeological evidence for the "best Celtic" steel of the 10-12th centuries?

the roman helmet was celtic, they introduced iron and steel as well

Noric steel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's not much to say, the best steel was always on the east for they had ovens that achieved much higher temperatures, and let's not forget that they invented Damascian steel which set the foundation of today's steel. Yes, they are not useless shirtless guys and have a rich metalwork, but that is far from the best in the "game historic" scope. Historic rant over.

if you run around in northern europe without a shirt you will freeze to death, this is just an invention from total war

 

[sir Gregor Clegane]

the roman helmet was celtic, they introduced iron and steel as well

I know all this without wikipipedia. It is strange that none of the Celtic defenders remembered about the medieval Walloon armourers ... I asked about a specific Celtic armor that defended better than the armor of Western knights or the plate armor of the Byzantine cataphracts. Nobody gave me a concrete historical example, because there is none ... OK, let's do without history. It's just enough to visually compare the Battanians' armor with Vlandian or Imperial armor in the game to understand that the superiority of the Battanians in armor is complete nonsense. But the Menavlions in captain mode continue to destroy everything and everyone ... And the savages are the weakest shock infantry in captain mode. And the developers really don't want to nerf the Menavlions for six months now. Faction upgrades and nerfs are clearly not on friendly terms with logic, that's the problem ...

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

I know all this without wikipipedia. It is strange that none of the Celtic defenders remembered about the medieval Walloon armourers ... I asked about a specific Celtic armor that defended better than the armor of Western knights or the plate armor of the Byzantine cataphracts. Nobody gave me a concrete historical example, because there is none ... OK, let's do without history. It's just enough to visually compare the Battanians' armor with Vlandian or Imperial armor in the game to understand that the superiority of the Battanians in armor is complete nonsense. But the Menavlions in captain mode continue to destroy everything and everyone ... And the savages are the weakest shock infantry in captain mode. And the developers really don't want to nerf the Menavlions for six months now. Faction upgrades and nerfs are clearly not on friendly terms with logic, that's the problem ...

Are you reading what we are saying? At all?

Nobody is giving you the example you are looking for because it is irrelevant to Bannerlord. Read my earlier reply to understand why.

And why does a visual comparison reveal anything? Every armor you have mentioned is a combination of cloth, chain mail and scale mail. Nothing about any of the armors makes them stand out in an incredible way. If anything the Battania armors 3D texture is quite a bit thicker than the other examples and would imply quite a bit of extra padding under what you can already see.

 

[Caps]

I know all this without wikipipedia. It is strange that none of the Celtic defenders remembered about the medieval Walloon armourers ... I asked about a specific Celtic armor that defended better than the armor of Western knights or the plate armor of the Byzantine cataphracts. Nobody gave me a concrete historical example, because there is none ... OK, let's do without history. It's just enough to visually compare the Battanians' armor with Vlandian or Imperial armor in the game to understand that the superiority of the Battanians in armor is complete nonsense. But the Menavlions in captain mode continue to destroy everything and everyone ... And the savages are the weakest shock infantry in captain mode. And the developers really don't want to nerf the Menavlions for six months now. Faction upgrades and nerfs are clearly not on friendly terms with logic, that's the problem ...

you dont need big armor if you have big shields, if the armor you already got protects you perfectly why need more?

savages are still the most mobile unit, but giving them 1-3 more units is more than enough to balance them probably