{} Australia & New Zealand Multiplayer Community Thread {}

[Chevalier1]

> The reason that there are still class limits is because unfortunately class limits have a few supporters. Frantown being one of the main amongst them.
LOL what is Australia communtiy so weak they get stopped by a few people grow a pair remove limits profit $$$

 

[yedrellow]

some stuff

sundeki whens the last time you actually played the game
also KoS brought in class limits. it just suited us really well lol

I've played about 20 hours MP in the last three weeks. Before that I hadn't played since early 2015, and that was about 40 hours in the space of two months, which prior to that I hadn't played since 2013, etc.

And the class limits were brought in by KoS because everyone spent whole games irritated by camp strats and nobody wanted to play that **** anymore.

To actually fix this mess we probably need to do something to implement matches outside of the clan system. I was thinking what we could do is to have a participating player pool, assign everyone a starting ELO of 1000 and just pull numbers from that pool to get matches together. Use the average rating of the randomly generated teams for an ELO calculation and just see how it pans out. That way it doesn't matter if people are clanned or not, and it doesnt matter if their clan leader supports class limits.


Could probably do all of this with just a running excel sheet.

To keep people's attention it would need to be 3-3.5 minute rounds max and only have 3-5 rounds before switching sides. Draws would have to just stand as draws.

To prevent people from stopping playing to preserve rank there'd need to be an ELO decay after a while (eg a month) of inactivity.

This way we can throw literally everyone we can in to it initially, and if we get enough people, actually match-make with it.

 

[Chevalier1]

>To actually fix this mess we probably need to do something to implement matches outside of the clan system. I was thinking what we could do is to have a participating player pool, assign everyone a starting ELO of 1000 and just pull numbers from that pool to get matches together. Use the average rating of the randomly generated teams for an ELO calculation and just see how it pans out. That way it doesn't matter if people are clanned or not, and it doesnt matter if their clan leader supports class limits.


Could probably do all of this with just a running excel sheet.

To keep people's attention it would need to be 3-3.5 minute rounds max and only have 3-5 rounds before switching sides. Draws would have to just stand as draws.

To prevent people from stopping playing to preserve rank there'd need to be an ELO decay after a while (eg a month) of inactivity.

This way we can throw literally everyone we can in to it initially, and if we get enough people, actually match-make with it.

Or you could simply Convince the class limit supporters to remove them....

 

[yedrellow]

Or you could simply Convince the class limit supporters to remove them....

This isn't that simple, and while they refuse it locks out the players in their clans from playing non-limited scrims. The alternative is to just ignore their clan leaders and go around them which is basically what this is.

 

[Avarthon]

some stuff

sundeki whens the last time you actually played the game
also KoS brought in class limits. it just suited us really well lol

I've played about 20 hours MP in the last three weeks. Before that I hadn't played since early 2015, and that was about 40 hours in the space of two months, which prior to that I hadn't played since 2013, etc.

And the class limits were brought in by KoS because everyone spent whole games irritated by camp strats and nobody wanted to play that **** anymore.

To actually fix this mess we probably need to do something to implement matches outside of the clan system. I was thinking what we could do is to have a participating player pool, assign everyone a starting ELO of 1000 and just pull numbers from that pool to get matches together. Use the average rating of the randomly generated teams for an ELO calculation and just see how it pans out. That way it doesn't matter if people are clanned or not, and it doesnt matter if their clan leader supports class limits.


Could probably do all of this with just a running excel sheet.

To keep people's attention it would need to be 3-3.5 minute rounds max and only have 3-5 rounds before switching sides. Draws would have to just stand as draws.

To prevent people from stopping playing to preserve rank there'd need to be an ELO decay after a while (eg a month) of inactivity.

This way we can throw literally everyone we can in to it initially, and if we get enough people, actually match-make with it.

Sounds good if you're willing to set it up.
It could also work with clans, as there will be variation in who attends different scrims.

I do suggest that the starting elo is more like 1600 though. Also , I think it'd be a good idea to modify the elo system, where each game has a relative gain in elo for all players. This would encourage more play, for a higher elo, and makes elo decay concerns unnecessary.

So i suggest that elo(final) = elo(initial) + kx + |cx|
where k = base elo change (given same elo on each team), let's say = 5
x = the multiplier, + for winning and - for losing, also takes into account the difference in elo of each team, as a proportion of k. With = elo's, x equals 1 or -1
c = the modifier, I propose that c = 2 / n(net) where n = the net number of participants of the event.
            This will mean that each scrim will cause an increase of overall elo of 2*x across all of the players equally (elo system is symmetrical).

None of this currently takes into account the degree of one-sidedness of the events, but I haven't considered if it'd be a good idea to incorporate anyway.

 

[m1tchell23]

If you have issues with camping etc then EU at least reduced round time. Less time waiting of about 30 seconds till flags spawn.

 

[AULeonidas]

jeez terrorbite that problem solving at the end there was overwhelming lol

 

[Fietta]

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Sounds good if you're willing to set it up.
It could also work with clans, as there will be variation in who attends different scrims.

I do suggest that the starting elo is more like 1600 though. Also , I think it'd be a good idea to modify the elo system, where each game has a relative gain in elo for all players. This would encourage more play, for a higher elo, and makes elo decay concerns unnecessary.

So i suggest that elo(final) = elo(initial) + kx + |cx|
where k = base elo change (given same elo on each team), let's say = 5
x = the multiplier, + for winning and - for losing, also takes into account the difference in elo of each team, as a proportion of k. With = elo's, x equals 1 or -1
c = the modifier, I propose that c = 2 / n(net) where n = the net number of participants of the event.
            This will mean that each scrim will cause an increase of overall elo of 2*x across all of the players equally (elo system is symmetrical).

None of this currently takes into account the degree of one-sidedness of the events, but I haven't considered if it'd be a good idea to incorporate anyway.

Seems extremely unnecessary. If Australia can barely get players for a scrim in years, how would implementing any form of match making change that?. Also, If I were to do an elo system it would be as follows. I'll also make it pseudocode so everyone can read it better.

Spoiler

T1OE = Team1OverallBaseELO
T1SEPP = Team1SharedELOPerPerson
T2SEPP = Team2SharedELOPerPerson
RoundWinsTeam1 = 0
RoundWinsTeam2 = 0

// Team Elo
          IF Team1 == RoundWin then
              RoundWinsTeam1 = RoundWinsTeam1 + 1
          Otherwise:
              RoundWinsTeam2 = RoundWinsTeam2 + 1

          IF Team1 == WinGame && (T1OE < 10000) && (T2OE < 10000) then
              T1SEPP = (( T2OE / 50) / RoundWinsTeam2) * 2) // Lets say they have 8 players and all with 1000 ELO, 8000 overall ELO / 50 = 160, divided by the rounds they won as a deduction then times 2.
         
// You can obviously set limits, otherwise people would gain more ELO as they progress, when it should be the opposite, like below:

          IF Team1 == WinGame && ( T1OE < 25000) && (T2OE < 25000) then
              T1SEPP = (( T2OE / 150 ) / RoundWinsTeam2) * 2)

I would go more in depth but It's fairly simple and can be extended to player kills etc etc, calculating ELO is fairly easy but there's a lot of deciding factors. I obviously didn't mention the losing team's ELO but that would be pretty self explanatory looking at the above psuedocode.

 

[Avarthon]

An automated setup would make things easier, but I'm personally not gonna learn any coding for it. Maybe yed can sort that out if he wants to put in the time initially.

oh **** i just remember i somehow do know coding to some extent and completely forgot 

What the ranking system is using, should remain the same over time. So if coding is used from the start, it must be complete and involve all complexities. This will be taking up a fair bit of time given, people may not be interested. For this reason, it may be better to start off with a manual input for each scrim, as it'd be easier to form, and over time replacing parts with code.

 

[Avarthon]

After trying to upload this video about 5x, I finally got it working.

Sadly, we didn't get to warm up or anything so it was a bit messy, but is a good idea of the kinds of events we do more frequently.

Spoiler

 

[Munby]

this absolutely stinks and we have to leave groupfights in NW where they belong
if Frantown wants class limits then tell him to **** off or play without them

 

[Avarthon]

this absolutely stinks and we have to leave groupfights in NW where they belong
if Frantown wants class limits then tell him to **** off or play without them

eh, the clans involved are enjoying it, I don't see groupfights stopping anytime soon.

 

[Goris]

You aussies like to make holidays in Europe so get your bloddy asses on a plane, i am sure somebody will let you in his home to use their gear

I'll be in Europe later this year, who's gonna put me up?

Spoiler

i'm garbage at warband and can barely block basic attacks now, so if i beat any of u then aus are confirmed best warbanders globally

 

[Munby]

c1_goris is washed up

 

[Goris]

i bet ur trash too munners

 

[Xaime]

Ah, I didn't even realize there was a thread for the AU/NZ Native community, lmao.

I currently lead TKG and have enjoyed the very recent revival of the AU/NZ native community thus far, no scrim as of yet though. I haven't played much Native compared to my total amount of hours (5.5k+) but yet I can see the stupidity of using class limits for scrims (based on my experience with class limited scrims). When I am able to organize a scrim (everyone so far has only wanted to do 'groupfights', though I believe LK may do one with us this Monday) then I'll be making sure that there are no class limits, see how we do.

Perhaps you'd like to record it Terrorbite?

 

[Chevalier1]

Ah, I didn't even realize there was a thread for the AU/NZ Native community, lmao.

I currently lead TKG and have enjoyed the very recent revival of the AU/NZ native community thus far, no scrim as of yet though. I haven't played much Native compared to my total amount of hours (5.5k+) but yet I can see the stupidity of using class limits for scrims (based on my experience with class limited scrims). When I am able to organize a scrim (everyone so far has only wanted to do 'groupfights', though I believe LK may do one with us this Monday) then I'll be making sure that there are no class limits, see how we do.

Perhaps you'd like to record it Terrorbite?

i wanna see aus using a 4 cav ruins strat

 

[Greedalicious]

I could always stream it if you're interested.

 

[Goris]

i wanna see aus using a 4 cav ruins strat

Don't expect too much, I think there are only like two good cav players that are active (assuming Sundeki is still playing). The Aus community is so far from its peak that any sort of comparisons to EU/NA are pretty embarrassing at this stage tbh

I could always stream it if you're interested.

Wouldn't the time difference make that a bit tricky for you?

 

[Avarthon]

I'm done with recording anything as a spectator. However, it'd be good if greed can stream or even cast it (assuming no co-casters).