Armour Weight

[Eктωρ]

I've always wondered, throughout history, how much armour weighted on different periods. I know plate armour was pretty heavy, but the weight was well distributed. There are some people who do reenactment here and you guys can surely tell how much a chainmail weights and how much it hampers your movement.

So yeah, how much plate harnesses, chainmail, scale and lamel armour weighted? How effective are they at not restricting movement?

 

[Devercia]

Most people are surprised how much maille weighs. Lamellar is also heavy.

 

[Beaver]

Indeed, there are some games that like to brand chain mail as light armour... Well, let's just say they've probably never worn a mail hauberk.
Personally I wouldn't say that it hampers movement that much. Of course it does hamper movement compared to running around in a shirt, especially with padded cloth underneath - it is quite heavy after all. But I'd say the main disadvantage is that you get exhausted far quicker. Though naturally someone who trained with one every day would be less affected by that than someone like me...
But yes, it is heavy, thus it is important to have it well tied up with a belt or some such to take weight off your shoulders. I haven't worn plate armour but I'd assume it's easier to distribute the weight there since it's made of several parts.
What I feel is really heavy though, is actually helmets. You often (in games, movies etc) see people walking around with their helmets on constantly. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I very much doubt people did that unless really necessary. Walking around in a mail outfit all day is one thing, but carrying a helmet all day really wears on your neck (= not very good...).
Going back to the padded cloth - that too is heavier than one might think. It's also, well, padded. Thus making it harder to move than without one. So it's not just the mail itself, but also the padding underneath. In fact, it's probably easier to move in just a mail hauberk than it is to move in just a padded jack.

Of course, all this is just my personal opinion from my personal experience - so feel free to disagree

 

[Kobrag]

Most people are surprised how much maille weighs. Lamellar is also heavy.

Yar, hangs really uncomfortably off the shoulders.
Frankly, I don't know how people managed before padded underlays.

Then again I am a frail piece of ****e. >>

 

[Fenix_120]

Yar, hangs really uncomfortably off the shoulders.

I read that wearing a belt over mail would help evenly distribute the weight, as for the OP a modern soldier carries more weight on him into battle than a medieval one did.

Plate armor rarely exceeded 50 lbs(22 KG's), and most mail was about thirty lbs but the great helm was ten.

A U.S. Marines full kit(armor, ammo, pack) weighs about 60 lbs, This is part of the reason why the military turning down dragon scale armor was highly criticized, even if it truly did not protect as well as advertized it is still half the weight of Kevlar.

Armor did somewhat limit your movements but not as much as some people in Hollywood would lead you to believe, their are stories of Knights (among others) doing incredible feats of athleticism in full armor, such as head stands.

The Black Prince was reportedly able to literally Vault into the saddle of his horse in full plate armor.

And Beaver is correct, the reason why they could move like this is due to constant training in the armor, they did not just walk around in armor but they ran and jumped and fought in it.

And to answer the question you did not ask but were thinking, No I do not feel as if Mount and blade accurately depicts armor.

 

[Kobrag]

Yar, hangs really uncomfortably off the shoulders.

I read that wearing a belt over mail would help evenly distribute the weight, as for the OP a modern soldier carries more weight on him into battle than a medieval one did.

Plate armor rarely exceeded 50 lbs(22 KG's), and most mail was about thirty lbs but the great helm was ten.

A U.S. Marines full kit(armor, ammo, pack) weighs about 60 lbs, This is part of the reason why the military turning down dragon scale armor was highly criticized, even if it truly did not protect as well as advertized it is still half the weight of Kevlar.

Armor did somewhat limit your movements but not as much as some people in Hollywood would lead you to believe, their are stories of Knights (among others) doing incredible feats of athleticism in full armor, such as head stands.

The Black Prince was reportedly able to literally Vault into the saddle of his horse in full plate armor.

And Beaver is correct, the reason why they could move like this is due to constant training in the armor, they did not just walk around in armor but they ran and jumped and fought in it.

And to answer the question you did not ask but were thinking, No I do not feel as if Mount and blade accurately depicts armor.

But it still exhausted the wearer, to the point where 'relay' systems were implimentted inside formations to reduce fatigue in a battle. 
I would have hated to fight in Armour + cloth padding in the heat of Spain or France.

 

[Beaver]

I read that wearing a belt over mail would help evenly distribute the weight

I can vouch for that. If you don't bind up the weight somewhere you get pretty much all of it on the shoulders, like I mentioned.

But it still exhausted the wearer, to the point where 'relay' systems were implimentted inside formations to reduce fatigue in a battle. 
I would have hated to fight in Armour + cloth padding in the heat of Spain or France.

Naturally they'd still get exhausted. And anything that reduced fatigue helped. Still doesn't change the fact that you'd get less exhausted (and less restricted) if you're used to wearing it.

 

[Eктωρ]

People didn't walk with helmets around, they only wore them for battle as far as I know, games are an awful source to "learn" about armour and armaments.

So you guys have the experience in mail, anyone here knows anything that specific about lamellar armour? Do you think a full body lamellar suit (like the 13th century mails) would be feasible? I've only seen depictions of people wearing lamellar corsets and things like that. How flexible is a lamellar suit? Speaking of that, how flexible is a mail, how much can you bend it and addapt it to the movement of your body?

 

[FrisianDude]

Depends on the construction of the lamellar, afaIk. I think the Byzantine method of lamellar, mentioned in another recent thread in the Sage's guild, was very sturdy, not flexible at all. But I've also seen (granted, mostly art, often Osprey) 'sources' with rather more lamellar than only on the torso. Let me see if I can find any amusing (Osprey) pictures in my reference picture-bookmarks.

Edit1; I wish I had real actual experience with wearing armour myself though.

Spoiler

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/156/mongols01gm7nd3.jpg/

http://www.historum.com/european-history/10854-medieval-russian-armour-question-looks.html (a VERY nice picture in the second post and the last post with Mongols.)

http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_138_figure_1.htm at the knights and blades. Also look at other armies on the same site; some neat stuff. I have no idea how accurate, and their pictures are very often based on Osprey drawings.

Edit 2; http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=418645
http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/Armor/armordef.html
http://steppes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=board21&action=print&thread=443
http://steppes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=board21&action=display&thread=1224
http://****-k.narod.ru/Ice_Battle_2.html (there's one guy at the foreground in the last picture with an odd coat of mail which seems to be closed with belts. I'm pretty sure that's inaccurate.)

Spoiler

http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/7079/kirghiz2lx.jpg

Spoiler

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/242/72014my3.jpg/

I have to add though that I have frankly NO idea how accurate ANY of these are, but they're neat pictures nonetheless.

 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

Most people are surprised how much maille weighs.

Only when you hold it in an outstretched arm. When I wear it on top of my gambeson I feel like wearing a thick jacket.

 

[Devercia]

I meant objectively. To put it relatively, in comparison to plate, most people greatly underestimate it. To put it subjectively, all armor weighs less when you wear it.

 

[Soil]

What I feel is really heavy though, is actually helmets. You often (in games, movies etc) see people walking around with their helmets on constantly. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I very much doubt people did that unless really necessary. Walking around in a mail outfit all day is one thing, but carrying a helmet all day really wears on your neck (= not very good...).

Well, your neck certainly gets accustomed to the weight and hits with training. I know it's not the same, but when I play football I like to get my helmet off as fast as possible, unless it's freezing. Depending on the padding it can get very hot under a helmet very easy if you move around a lot.

Depends on the construction of the lamellar, afaIk. I think the Byzantine method of lamellar, mentioned in another recent thread in the Sage's guild, was very sturdy, not flexible at all. But I've also seen (granted, mostly art, often Osprey) 'sources' with rather more lamellar than only on the torso. Let me see if I can find any amusing (Osprey) pictures in my reference picture-bookmarks.

Not stiffer than other lamellar armor, no. The stiffness was part of the reason why it was effective but also why it could only be used in limited areas. The main difference from "byzantine lamellar" which was adopted pretty soon by others, too, I think were additional rows of leather where the lamellae overlap, reducing the risk of the lacing being cut or worn down by the edges of the lamellae and probably making it quite a bit more silent, too.

 

[Danath]

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,184023.0.html

 

[Devercia]

I forgot about that one. 

 

[Rob83]

my own knee-length hauberk with long sleeves weight about 12-13 kgs... it's made from 10 x 1,5 mm butted (not riveted except on the armpits) rings - I assume thousand of rivets would make a slight addition - I'm going to discovering as soon as I start riveting

the camail is about 2,5 kg, plus a square ventail I'm planning to add in the future, currently I am actually working on mail chausses... from belt to knee covering only the front size of the thigh I'am already at 600 gr.

the padded jacket below the mail is about 3,5 kgs and the helmet (transitional to great helm) is not really heavy itself but breathing quickly tires you down

 

[Kobrag]

But a medieval peasant would last longer in a suit of armor than a today's normal person working at office 8 hours a day.

This is false, partially.
Peasant rarley had access to meat. The lack of protien would hamper muscle growth, even if the person was used to hard labour.

 

[Devercia]

Just look at a New Guinean primitive and say that. They mostly eat sago(edible wood) and root crops (with the rare occasional meat), are scrawny, but so sinuous as to be wiry strong. Endurance has little to do with muscle mass (which is sometimes a hiderence) so long as the person is not so excessively burdened to be anaerobically deficient for the task. Running around in armor, for just about anyone, is an aerobic activity.

I could probably even use myself as an example. I'm sedentary and a suit of armor overweight. When I run, its not my legs that stop me, its first bloodpressure (capillaries in my mouth burst) followed by sheer exhaustion, the sort that brings unconsciousness, then joint damage, then my legs give out.

 

[Fenix_120]

But a medieval peasant would last longer in a suit of armor than a today's normal person working at office 8 hours a day.

This is false, partially.
Peasant rarley had access to meat. The lack of protien would hamper muscle growth, even if the person was used to hard labour.

Only partly True, but they did have fish, beans and eggs.

Beans they especially had in abundance as in some nations Nobles would not eat them ( something about only serfs eating food that's grown under dirt )

People as a general rule were more physically active back then, they had to be.

 

[LordOfShadows]

But a medieval peasant would last longer in a suit of armor than a today's normal person working at office 8 hours a day.

This is false, partially.
Peasant rarley had access to meat. The lack of protien would hamper muscle growth, even if the person was used to hard labour.

^This! Many people seem to forget just how well we eat in comparison to even a hundred years ago. Plus, the peasants worked hard, but they did not run around a hell of a lot, they work long and hard, so they had endurance but were not athletes.

Also, I saw earlier in the thread about maille being heavy, especially as it hung primarily on the shoulders. From what I have heard and seen from people that wear it, a belt across the hips, such as anybody wearing a sword would have, cuts the perceived weight tremendously. The Byzantines went further and wore a bra like leather strap arrangement.

 

[Roach XI the Magnificent]

The Byzantines went further and wore a bra like leather strap arrangement.

Indeed, it was a Persian fashion - the mail hung from the shoulders, rested both on the chest belt and the hip belt, making it much easier to wear.