Alternate pike move suggestion

[DIABOLGROTESQUE]

Just one quick hint about it: That scene in Braveheart where they impale the hell out of the horses.

I think you people get it. What I suggest is adding the (X) alternate command to pikes and the footman will firmly hold the spear forward with a 45-degree angle to inflict a good deal of damage on running horses (on the rider as well if it the horse is coming too fast at you). I have no idea how tedious a task it would be to add such a move into the game but I think it would make sense and add some flavor.

 

[nox]

I don't know if the engine supports set spears or if there is any way to make it support that.  It's been brought up before and never gone anywhere.

Charging spears with cavalry should be suicide for the horses.  That's one of the distortions that has been a problem for M&B all along and why cavalry are generally better in every way rather than just situational.
.

 

[Baron Conrad]

I think it would be cool but it isn't really necessary.

Just today on a random warband server it was Rhodoks vs Swadians on random plains. The other Rhodoks and I almost all had pikes and we massacred the (mostly cavalry) Swadian team with hardly any losses. Next round we did it again and the round after that not a single Swadian brought a horse.

Epic 

 

[lotsofpaper]

I don't know if the engine supports set spears or if there is any way to make it support that.  It's been brought up before and never gone anywhere.

Charging spears with cavalry should be suicide for the horses.  That's one of the distortions that has been a problem for M&B all along and why cavalry are generally better in every way rather than just situational.
.

Nox... The Floris mod pack HAS set spears included in it. Clearly then, the warband engine can support this. If I remember correctly, it's exactly the same as the mechanic for couched lance, with damage based on the difference between the speed of the two units. Its really just kind of like... couching a lance on foot.

 

[nox]

I don't know if the engine supports set spears or if there is any way to make it support that.  It's been brought up before and never gone anywhere.

Charging spears with cavalry should be suicide for the horses.  That's one of the distortions that has been a problem for M&B all along and why cavalry are generally better in every way rather than just situational.
.

Nox... The Floris mod pack HAS set spears included in it. Clearly then, the warband engine can support this. If I remember correctly, it's exactly the same as the mechanic for couched lance, with damage based on the difference between the speed of the two units. Its really just kind of like... couching a lance on foot.

Then it needs to be.  Must be.

 

[lotsofpaper]

Same rules should apply, obviously. If you get hit the set breaks, just like when you try to couch a lance and get smacked.

 

[lotsofpaper]

The mod you are looking for is called "Spear bracing kit 2.0"

He literally posts the required code on his topic page. http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,61051.0.html

Should be fairly easy to implement!


He also gives a code that lets you whistle to make your horse come to you! very useful in some situations.

 

[Caba`drin]

I've updated it significantly from what is posted there, as can be seen in the Floris code (The Mercenary's original code was for the original M&B and the new Warband operations made the vast majority of it unnecessary, cleaning it up quite a bit and improving performance). It isn't an exact replica of the couched lance mechanic (would be lovely if this were possible to duplicate module system-side, but alas) but it largely does the trick.

There are two main problems with the code as is, or with the Warband-appropriate updates: 1) the lack of a good animation of a pike being held in a braced position (coupled with the shortness of pikes in Warband, but that isn't a problem here) make it looks like there are invisible horse-killing death rays that make the horses drop dead in the face of the pikemen, rather than skewering themselves on a row of spikey death; and 2) cavalry AI doesn't know it should avoid massed pikemen so willingly commit mass suicide into their ranks.

That said, properly implemented spear and pikewalls would be amazing. The ineffectiveness of polearms against cavalry is one of my primary beefs I've tried to deal with...

 

[lotsofpaper]

Yay! Progress!

While we are making it, let me ask for something... Please re implement the thrown rocks that looters had in warband! Do you know how pathetic looters are in this game? No armor, clubs at best and not even some rocks to throw!

 

[DIABOLGROTESQUE]

As I hardly had any mods installed for my copy of Warband, I am kind of illiterate about them all and naturally, I had no idea that it was implemented before.

Still, Caba'drin's point stands. Even if the animation was dealt with, recoding AI accordingly might become a problem. Nevertheless, I would like to see such an addition in the game.

I think it would be cool but it isn't really necessary.

Just today on a random warband server it was Rhodoks vs Swadians on random plains. The other Rhodoks and I almost all had pikes and we massacred the (mostly cavalry) Swadian team with hardly any losses. Next round we did it again and the round after that not a single Swadian brought a horse.

Epic 

I actually wrote this right after some Crimean massacre Gaunt. It was Crimean vs Russian and not surprisingly, 90% of the Crimeans went horse archer. We just used pikes with some gunmen supporting us and those confident arrow spammers literally bit the dust with a large large gap between scores (something like 100 frags actually). This is to say, pikes function well enough. There is no problem about that.

My suggestion is aimed at enhancing the pike massacre with some epic impalement action because horse archers are probably on the top of the list of units I enjoy slaying the most. Not to mention that annoying them, when they think they would be totally invincible on them horses, is priceless.

 

[wannyboy]

First of all your avatar is realy AWESOME!!! Just love that evil smiling orochimaru face.

Ok back on topic now. If you get those spear walls, i think it would be nice to add formations. You should be able to order your troops to form a spearwall, making them stick close together with their spears lowered so that they can be used at maximum effectiveness. Maybe putting it in the fire order category since there is still some place there

 

[DIABOLGROTESQUE]

Thanks Wannyboy. I found it at deviantart as far as I remember.

And thanks also for underlining the need for a command for forming spear walls with your troops. I had multiplayer in mind at first but you are right. If this mechanic ever makes it into the game, it should also be implemented on the command panel too.

 

[Caba`drin]

And thanks also for underlining the need for a command for forming spear walls with your troops. I had multiplayer in mind at first but you are right. If this mechanic ever makes it into the game, it should also be implemented on the command panel too.

Totally possible, even module system side. (cf PBOD as the originator, but can now be found elsewhere.)

 

[Leberecht Reinhold]

This problem and lot of others of WB battles will be fixed if bots took into account the length of their weapon.
They always try to facehug, even with pikes.

 

[lotsofpaper]

I disagree.

I gave some units pistols with 80 damage and 50 reload speed, 70 accuracy. 50 bullets.

Then I made them melee capable with 10 melee range (yes, 10) and 20 speed, and 1 damage.

The bots preferred to attempt to melee with them, ESPECIALLY when they were on horses. THAT needs to be fixed! Bots should use weapons based on their performance, and set their range based on the best weapon/the on they have equipped.

 

[nox]

Is that after firing them?  They won't attempt to reload while engaged in melee combat, I think.

 

[lotsofpaper]

No, not after reloading... at all times...

What they did was charge directly at the enemy, fail to aim a shot before they got within 1k range (at which point they all pull out the melee variant) and slowly swing at enemies like they're underwater with pasta in their hands.

There was a warband modder who made a fix for horse archers called "Horse archers use the right weapon" or something of the sort. What it basically did was ensure that units with ranged capability would use up their ranged capability rather than melee unless they are literally right NEXT TO an enemy.

What horse ranged units seem to do right now is either fire one shot at enemies then melee, or fail to fire 1 shot fast enough and then melee. If they are on a horse and have a ranged weapon, the obvious choice is to ride around with the ranged weapon... not sit still next to an enemy whacking at them.

 

[Thalamond]

I don't know if the engine supports set spears or if there is any way to make it support that.  It's been brought up before and never gone anywhere.

Charging spears with cavalry should be suicide for the horses.  That's one of the distortions that has been a problem for M&B all along and why cavalry are generally better in every way rather than just situational.
.

Sorry this is kinda offtopic, but another reason that cavalry are unbalanced (in multiplayer at least) is how they can reload rifles at normal speed on horseback while the infantry have to stand still, as if the horse wasnt enough.

On topic: This braveheart thing is what i have wanted since i first played original Mount and Blade, so im glad to see you will be putting it in later

 

[nox]

I don't know if the engine supports set spears or if there is any way to make it support that.  It's been brought up before and never gone anywhere.

Charging spears with cavalry should be suicide for the horses.  That's one of the distortions that has been a problem for M&B all along and why cavalry are generally better in every way rather than just situational.
.

Sorry this is kinda offtopic, but another reason that cavalry are unbalanced (in multiplayer at least) is how they can reload rifles at normal speed on horseback while the infantry have to stand still, as if the horse wasnt enough.

On topic: This braveheart thing is what i have wanted since i first played original Mount and Blade, so im glad to see you will be putting it in later

Well as I said, I don't know if it will work all things considered.  I'll certainly give it a go.

 

[wannyboy]

I don't know if the engine supports set spears or if there is any way to make it support that.  It's been brought up before and never gone anywhere.

Charging spears with cavalry should be suicide for the horses.  That's one of the distortions that has been a problem for M&B all along and why cavalry are generally better in every way rather than just situational.
.

Sorry this is kinda offtopic, but another reason that cavalry are unbalanced (in multiplayer at least) is how they can reload rifles at normal speed on horseback while the infantry have to stand still, as if the horse wasnt enough.

On topic: This braveheart thing is what i have wanted since i first played original Mount and Blade, so im glad to see you will be putting it in later

this musket reloading is indeed kinda stupid. Especially since i sometimes catch my (SP) troops reloading their rifle while moving to another position. Why can they do it while i can't?