Adding in Khuzait racial trait just makes their campaign OPness even more obvious

[durbal]

They steamroll in every game. Every game is a race to get an army strong enough to join the northern Empire and stop the Khuzait from doing more than taking Syratos or Epinoa because if they get Amprela the campaign is pretty much over. It's getting old.

Can we seriously nerf this nonsense already? They win 90% of their battles because they get to pick every battle. Any time an enemy even approaches a castle a massive swarm of units surrounds it and they won't ever engage until they have an advantage, making every battle they fight pretty much an autowin. Their racial trait is by far the most OP out of all of them too and just makes the existing problem worse.

 

[bearmans]

I have mixed feelings about this, just because horse archers and cavalry dominant armies seem like they should be good strategically. But you're right, in all 5 of my 600+ day campaigns Khuzait always ends up overperforming, and you're nail-on-the-head as to why.

Their unit upgrade trees are also all amazing, although part of that is that some of the others are just so bad.

 

[durbal]

I have mixed feelings about this, just because horse archers and cavalry dominant armies seem like they should be good strategically. But you're right, in all 5 of my 600+ day campaigns Khuzait always ends up overperforming, and you're nail-on-the-head as to why.

Their unit upgrade trees are also all amazing, although part of that is that some of the others are just so bad.

Horses and pack animals need to consume food at least to put them on a somewhat even ground in terms of the campaign mechanics. Currently, on a per-distance basis they consume fewer resources (gold, food, influence) per distance traveled since they travel faster. Add in food consumption for animals and cavalry will still be strong and having hundreds of horses will probably still be mandatory (I despise this) but at least we'll make it not relatively punitive to have troops on foot. Then change the Khuzait trait so that their horses consume 20% less food or something more or less equivalent power-wise to the other nearly useless racial traits. (Racial traits are dumb and shouldn't exist anyway but whatever.)

 

[bearmans]

Horses and pack animals need to consume food at least to put them on a somewhat even ground in terms of the campaign mechanics. Currently, on a per-distance basis they consume fewer resources (gold, food, influence) per distance traveled since they travel faster. Add in food consumption for animals and cavalry will still be strong and having hundreds of horses will probably still be mandatory (I despise this) but at least we'll make it not relatively punitive to have troops on foot. Then change the Khuzait trait so that their horses consume 20% less food or something more or less equivalent power-wise to the other nearly useless racial traits. (Racial traits are dumb and shouldn't exist anyway but whatever.)

I'd say I agree with that, especially once the economy gets ironed out a bit more. It should definitely be more expensive/logistically challenging to have tons of cavalry.

(Not that I think infantry are pointless really, since in very very large battles it's a huge advantage to have a bigger/better blob. Non-archer horsemen don't really perform that well against The Infantry Blob. But that's beside the point, I guess.)

 

[Timmortal]

you mean Vlandia steamroll the map, putting all others to dust in every game... oh my friend says its aserai, but i guess he is just wrong cause its clearly Vlandia...

 

[ZeroFighterR]

Vlandia? You mean Battania

 

[Nokturnel]

Well if armor was actually working properly a good fix for Khuzait would be giving them terrible armor in comparison to other Factions, making them terrible at siege battles but good on an open field. This would be more lore friendly as well.

Different factions excel in different campaigns just due to the RNG of their intelligence. (Lets start 5 wars at once guys!) But yea, Khuzait seems to excel in every campaign just due to the OP nature of horse archers. It's a good idea to kill them off first or have to deal with them for a long time.

 

[SmattlePattle]

I will admit I never have a campaign where the Khuzait are a major loser, but I haven't had any where they steamroll either. My biggest offenders tend be to Southern Empire & Battania. That said I think its undeniably one needs to have to have some increased upkeep cost for fielding so many horses/cavalry.

One additional note, as the player at least, I've never had an issue with Khuzaits when playing as Aserai and fielding lots of Mamlukes & Faris myself. I find as Aserai they are beatable at their own game. Lets see how my Sturgia playthrough pans out.

 

[Gambles]

Because all AI battles are simulated autoresolve, being the 10% faster faction on the campaign map means that they are by far and away the strongest faction. Maybe not in battles played by the player but certainly being able to pick and choose which battles it wants to fight against other AI is the ultimate advantage. I'm not sure there is any possible way to address it, other than removing it completely. It's just the nature of auto resolves, even if you made cavalry consume more food and resources, AI cheats so hard it ain't gunna matter much.

 

[Nokturnel]

One additional note, as the player at least, I've never had an issue with Khuzaits when playing as Aserai and fielding lots of Mamlukes & Faris myself. I find as Aserai they are beatable at their own game. Lets see how my Sturgia playthrough pans out.

I tried to do a Sturgia campaign for the challenge of it and even fixed the troop stats so they weren't dumb, but ended up just using other faction troops the majority of the time, not just because they were better than Sturgia troops, but also because the Sturgia villages/cities are so far away from all the other factions. I'd suggest using the mod that allows you to change the Culture of villages/cities you take if you want to actually use Sturgia troops as just going out of the way to hire them is obnoxious. (Not to mention their troops suck unless you mod them to not suck)

 

[Vrenn]

I've noticed similar things in my playthroughs as well. Maybe not always dominating, but never being pressed. I thought terrain might play a bigger role in map speed. I am positive snow does nothing, but I might be wrong.The Battanian feat is situational, where as the Khuzait seems to be always active. Maybe cav should take a speed hit in tight terrain like mountains and forests.

 

[Nokturnel]

I've noticed similar things in my playthroughs as well. Maybe not always dominating, but never being pressed. I thought terrain might play a bigger role in map speed. I am positive snow does nothing, but I might be wrong.The Battanian feat is situational, where as the Khuzait seems to be always active. Maybe cav should take a speed hit in tight terrain like mountains and forests.

Don't think most of the traits even work unless you mod them to. Khuzaits might have one of the only traits that does work without having to mod it.

 

[Timmortal]

Don't think most of the traits even work unless you mod them to. Khuzaits might have one of the only traits that does work without having to mod it.

all culture traits work now, it was implemented in the latest patch.

 

[bigbalzzz]

They steamroll in every game. Every game is a race to get an army strong enough to join the northern Empire and stop the Khuzait from doing more than taking Syratos or Epinoa because if they get Amprela the campaign is pretty much over. It's getting old.

Can we seriously nerf this nonsense already? They win 90% of their battles because they get to pick every battle. Any time an enemy even approaches a castle a massive swarm of units surrounds it and they won't ever engage until they have an advantage, making every battle they fight pretty much an autowin. Their racial trait is by far the most OP out of all of them too and just makes the existing problem worse.

yes and no
civil feature can happen and khuzait will ve plenty of it witch will weaken them by alot
united strong? ya they basicly pwned europe and the arabs for centuries until anyone even had a chance to fight back

 

[ShotgunJed]

Did everyone just forget about how Battanians have the same racial trait but in the forest?

 

[Flauvious]

Did everyone just forget about how Battanians have the same racial trait but in the forest?

10% speed boost in the forest < 10% speed boost everywhere

 

[Sithrain]

Did everyone just forget about how Battanians have the same racial trait but in the forest?

Battanians can't field effective cav-only armies. No one can except the Khuzaits really, if they could the Khuzait armies wouldn't be outrunning everyone and causing this problem in the first place.

 

[kweassa]

The thread pretty much proves that "XX steamrolls all the time" is just false, doesn't it?

IMO false/flawed generalization of what happens in the game, doesn't help with anything. More likely a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Nokturnel]

The thread pretty much proves that "XX steamrolls all the time" is just false, doesn't it?

IMO false/flawed generalization of what happens in the game, doesn't help with anything. More likely a waste of everyone's time.

Actually, we or at least I, came to the conclusion that which faction does best each campaign can vary due to the RNG of their AI. Sometimes they'll only declare War on one faction, while that faction is at war with 4 other factions, etc. Their AI is pretty erratic & dumb when it comes to declaring War/Peace so it can vary playthrough to playthrough but Khuzaits seem to do pretty well no matter what. Yea, the player can counter them but the player can counter anything lol.

 

[TheChewieShow]

Kazuits in my game are pretty much gone right now. I killed Mululag or whatever their leader name is... he pissed me off, he captured my companion trader so i caught him and chopped his head off...

In my game the dominant empire in the Southern Empire, they have like 16k in strength while owning 12 cities and multiple castles. All other factions including myself have like 8-9k strength, Kazuits, and Sturgians have less than 1000 tho.