About Monarchy.

[General von Hiller]

to be fair, religion took avery important rolr throughout history, basically acting as a morale instance and sort of enforce laws, even though they often helped only the church out. still, religion contributed to stability and relative security(most of the time)

 

[Heskeytime]

to be fair, religion took avery important rolr throughout history, basically acting as a morale instance and sort of enforce laws, even though they often helped only the church out. still, religion contributed to stability and relative security(most of the time)

And literacy, without monks copying old texts into new versions we'd be without so much historical information or epic old folktales.

Also science, developments in agriculture etc all coming from monasteries

 

[Vicccard]

Something that used to be cool/effective/necessary must be kept even though it has lost its coolness/effectiveness/need, because it used to be cool/effective/necessary?

 

[General von Hiller]

Why changing what is working?

 

[Vicccard]

Because it no longer has to work? Because we have brought major changes to society and politics and they're just sitting there, being a big hypocrisy on top of it all.

 

[General von Hiller]

O is that so? A very simple example: what are people saying when they are suddenly in a very bad situation and need help? Oh God, please help they say. Who is taking care of the people when there is a crisis, for example in iraq atm. Where are many refugees sitting right now? In churches. Who is feeding them? churches. Where are old people going because they know they will die soon and are scared and need something to hold on and what gives them stability? atheists and believers? They go to churches. 
You cannot just say that religion is a hypocrisy when you think you don't need them, but then taking advantage off them when there is a crisis. Also, you can't just make something disappear what seems to be not useful anymore, but that has done so much for our society allready. Then go ahead, make your grand pa disappear as he has been working and paying taxes before, but now he is retired and maybe not useful anymore, he is just a burden really.

 

[Bluehawk]

Asylum, charity, weddings and funerals, and the preservation of the written word can and have been fulfilled successfully by secular organizations. The only argument for the continuation of the church, barring your genuine belief in the Scripture, is inertia - it is easier to use a preexisting system than to create or recreate one. And it is hypocritical in cases where the church's policy contradicts the public good, such as prescribing abstinence-only sex education to regions in Africa where other aid workers are trying to distribute condoms to fight HIV.

 

[General von Hiller]

...in cases where the church's policy contradicts the public good, such as prescribing abstinence-only sex education to regions in Africa where other aid workers are trying to distribute condoms to fight HIV.

You are pointing out a main weak point there. The lack of development and stepps forward are a main problem. I think there should be serious reforms going on.

 

[Vicccard]

Can you please argue the case instead of drawing baseless comparisons?

 

[Captured Joe]

Times change. The church was vital for the preservation of old texts and knowledge in the middle ages. We are no longer in the middle ages however.

But the church changes too; it's been evolving all this time. You can't say it has no right to stay because it is no longer cool or useful like it was before, because this is a different church alltogether.

And it is still useful; AFAIK about 40% of the charity going to some countries in Africa goes through Catholic charity institutions, and individual parishes have their own development programs in developing countries too; for example, the parish I am part of, which is small and has only a small wooden church, has been financing multiple school-building programs in Cameroon and near areas through charity projects.

 

[Vicccard]

. You can't say it has no right to stay because it is no longer cool or useful like it was before, because this is a different church alltogether.

I never, ever argued that concerning the Church. I didn't even bring it up.

 

[Bluehawk]

I implied it, but the underlying point in my position is that there is no god.

 

[Captured Joe]

. You can't say it has no right to stay because it is no longer cool or useful like it was before, because this is a different church alltogether.

I never, ever argued that concerning the Church. I didn't even bring it up.

Oh, I thought that's what you meant with this:

Spoiler

Because it no longer has to work? Because we have brought major changes to society and politics and they're just sitting there, being a big hypocrisy on top of it all.

Something that used to be cool/effective/necessary must be kept even though it has lost its coolness/effectiveness/need, because it used to be cool/effective/necessary?

Anyway, in my opinion the church is an at least very useful institution.

 

[Vicccard]

Nah. The Church doesn't take tax money, and it's no concern of mine what people do with their own money. Plus, it isn't claiming to represent me, so I really don't give a ****.

 

[Captured Joe]

Nah. The Church doesn't take tax money, and it's no concern of mine what people do with their own money, and it's claiming to represent me, so I really don't give a ****.

Is it?

 

[Jhessail]

O is that so? A very simple example: what are people saying when they are suddenly in a very bad situation and need help? Oh God, please help they say. Who is taking care of the people when there is a crisis, for example in iraq atm. Where are many refugees sitting right now? In churches. Who is feeding them? churches. Where are old people going because they know they will die soon and are scared and need something to hold on and what gives them stability? atheists and believers? They go to churches. 
You cannot just say that religion is a hypocrisy when you think you don't need them, but then taking advantage off them when there is a crisis. Also, you can't just make something disappear what seems to be not useful anymore, but that has done so much for our society allready. Then go ahead, make your grand pa disappear as he has been working and paying taxes before, but now he is retired and maybe not useful anymore, he is just a burden really.

Jesus-Dork, please stop spreading ignorant lies.

WHO, UNICEF, UNHCR, WFP - to name the big ones that do way more than any church. Most states also have non-religious social security systems and charities. Red Cross is, albeit religious in origin, largely surpassed its religious roots and is in any case independent from any church.

Atheist soldiers do exist and they saying is just that - an aphorism, not a fact: http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/

 

[Vicccard]

Nah. The Church doesn't take tax money, and it's no concern of mine what people do with their own money, and it's claiming to represent me, so I really don't give a ****.

Is it?

For ****s sake, allow a man to make a typing error 

 

[FrisianDude]

Myself im more a Monarchist guy, i like when there is the one and true ruler of the country, but ofcourse when a parliament is ruling too. Monarchy shows country's pride and history.  Well thats just my opinion

meh, looking at my country's history it was mostly foreign meddling which turned a sort of gouvernor/general/landlord into a monarch... of course before these first kings situation could often be volatile.. with Regents trying to make sure the Stadhouder was not needed to take up arms (and control the army) and the Stadhouder in contrast making sure he was needed. Not necessarily by starting wars but by delaying their end, sometimes. As of right now, king Willie is a bit eh and the princesses Huey, Dewey and Louie are more so. Our queen is fine though, despite loonyevil dead dad.

 

[BerserkerRezo]

This is not Game of Thrones that everyone kill each other.

 

[Vicccard]

Tell that to the guys on the airplanes.

Spoiler

I hope you didn't get that joke.