SP Native A Mod Long Forgotten

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VueChangZ

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I really like this one. The balance is very well done in my opinion xD. Unlike other mods where they have oversized weapons and swing it very fast like its nothing...... I just 1 v 1 King Harleous but I don't mind lol. Do you think you can implement Diplomacy with "A Mod Long Forgotten"
 
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Pallanza said:
Well, I've been trying out this mod for a few days, and my view of it seems to be that it's highly based on late game, and on controlling your troops more than actually participating in the fight yourself, which I suppose is fine if you're trying to take it in a more RTS direction rather then the mixture of action and RTS the base game is.

I say these things mainly because basic early rank troops are easily killed by even the lowest tier bandit party, the Outlaws, since there is no presence of looters. During the course of my playing, I found I had to outnumber said parties with recruits by 3:1 ratios, and constantly restock because of the high level of casualties after each battle. The ones that survived to become veteran or professional level do a lot better, but their pay rate skyrockets to above 30 denars each per week, and that's the non-cav troops.

After amassing a party of veteran troops, I decided to try my hand at mercing...and promptly discovered that against any enemy troops at veteran or above, my weapons would harmlessly bounce off them, even when using high damage, piercing weapons like morningstars or arming battle axes, with 16 strength at 5 powerstrike. On the other hand, my 60 body armor chainmail seemed to act like mere aluminum foil, providing little defense against their strikes, which hammered me for 30 damage each, at 1/4 damage levels. This was Sarranid infantry versus Rhodok infantry by the way, my veterans easily getting slaughtered by their regular and veteran level troops.

Conclusion: The amount of items and variety of troops is certainly impressive, and I can see how an RTS player would enjoy playing this type of mod, but the early/mid-game balance without your elite troops, and your own inability to deal damage at the same level as even village-recruits, as well as the exponential growth of defense in body armor compared to weaponry, ends up making this a tough slog to get into, even compared to games like Prophecy of Pendor which highly emphasize late game play and elite troops.

Well, that's my two cents anyways.

Edit: I should mention that the armor I was wearing and the armor my opponents were wearing were both mail, so that people don't think I'm complaining about not being able to hurt enemies in full plate while I'm wearing only leather and taking heavy damage. Maybe Sarranid mail is twice as effective as Rhodok mail, which still seems pretty unbalanced, and I would think morningstars with pierce damage would at least be able to do more then single digit damage against people in mail.
Well, the mod is aimed to be a lot more difficult than the original MB, even the original Native Expansion. Your character is significantly less powerful than in the original game since he is well, a human like everyone else in this game. The first few hours are very difficult until you amass good equipment or some good soldiers. I understand your concern, and If anyone else has this problem please post it here, and I will try to fix it. If not, then we must find out where is the problem. Sarranid troops are heavily focused on dishing out damage, even their elite troops can't take many hits but are killing machines. If you are using Rhodoks, one of the best early game troops you can get are the Rhodok Tercio Pikemen (Upgrade path: Recruit>Militia>Footman>Regular Infantry>Spearman>Pikeman>Phalanx Pikeman>Tercio Pikeman). Surely it's one of the longest Upgrade paths but this is the Strongest Regular unit in the game and it's the sole reason Rhodoks have 2 Elites,not three like everyone else. Another thing to notice is that two handed weapons are much more deadly in this mod, and almost no armor can protect you from a strong heavy greatsword, not to mention a two handed hammer. Another thing that is very important to keep in mind when facing mail and above armored enemies is speed rating. It's much less forgiving and much more important to get the swing at the right time. Not even a great hammer can inflict much damage if you catch the enemy at the start or end of your swing. If you are using a morningstar, if it's a two/one handed one, try using it more two handed, since as I can see, most certanly your one-handed weapon skill is low, so you swing really slow and your weapon can't build enough momentum to damage the enemy through armor. If you have a one handed morningstar, for now, get the Mail Breaker, it's a purely thrusting dagger and is very fast, and I use it on my LV50 character even now, as it can pierce even plate armor if you get the thrust just right (enemy is running straight at you). Even if the mod seems more late-game focused, personally I like the start of the game the most, where you gather your strength and money. You start as a nobody and slowly work your way up. Surely it's hard, since the path from a Peasant to a Commander is realistically very rarely accomplished. One of my friends plays as an archer, and he himself has killed over 18000 troops when I last time visited him and he showed me his stats.
And lastly, I can telly you that you consider adding a few points into the looting skill. That skill is completely overhauled and you will notice the drastic changes in equipment quality and quantity you get from battles, which can help you pay those end-trained troops. Also this skill is very important if you want someday to battle kings and get their Unique Armor and weapons.
And if you are still having problems, then go to tournaments, gather enough money and buy yourself a plate armor, and enjoy your enemies' weapons bounce off( beware of two handed axes and hammers though).
 
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VueChangZ said:
I really like this one. The balance is very well done in my opinion xD. Unlike other mods where they have oversized weapons and swing it very fast like its nothing...... I just 1 v 1 King Harleous but I don't mind lol. Do you think you can implement Diplomacy with "A Mod Long Forgotten"
Well, I doubt I can manage to find enough time to merge Diplomancy with this. However, this mod has some improved kingdom and army management, at least compared to the original Native.
 
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Oblivion Has been updated. Thanks to eMen for his constructive feedback. Be sue to download the update files, it's just 15 MB size but iz changes a lot of things: Troop balancing, item balancing, removed a few weapons and added several new ones, one new horse, two new shields, one complete armor set, Vaegir Eeite units rewamped, here are some screenshots:

Ruin Sentinel



Dragonrider





Archdrake, the strongest Archer in game






Here is the download link, just merge the Oblivion folder inside the archive with the same folder in the Modules folder. Replace existing files with the same name.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/l42hci9qy1zmi5v/Oblivion+Update.rar
 

Oldtimer

Knight
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Sir Integra Hellsing said:
Oblivion Has been updated. Thanks to eMen for his constructive feedback. Be sue to download the update files, it's just 15 MB size but iz changes a lot of things: Troop balancing, item balancing, removed a few weapons and added several new ones, one new horse, two new shields, one complete armor set, Vaegir Eeite units rewamped, here are some screenshots:

Ruin Sentinel



Dragonrider





Archdrake, the strongest Archer in game






Here is the download link, just merge the Oblivion folder inside the archive with the same folder in the Modules folder. Replace existing files with the same name.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/l42hci9qy1zmi5v/Oblivion+Update.rar
Hi,

save compatible?

Rgds, Oldtimer
 
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Oldtimer said:
Sir Integra Hellsing said:
Oblivion Has been updated. Thanks to eMen for his constructive feedback. Be sue to download the update files, it's just 15 MB size but iz changes a lot of things: Troop balancing, item balancing, removed a few weapons and added several new ones, one new horse, two new shields, one complete armor set, Vaegir Eeite units rewamped, here are some screenshots:

Ruin Sentinel



Dragonrider





Archdrake, the strongest Archer in game






Here is the download link, just merge the Oblivion folder inside the archive with the same folder in the Modules folder. Replace existing files with the same name.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/l42hci9qy1zmi5v/Oblivion+Update.rar
Hi,

save compatible?

Rgds, Oldtimer
Yes it is. Unless otherwise stated, all future updates are save game compatible. Later today I must release another update, just a few hours ago I saw some things that must be fixed ASAP while one of my friends was playing the mod.
 
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Another update, this one is a little larger but definitely download it, it fixes some bugs from the previous update as well ads 30+ new items.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/l42hci9qy1zmi5v/Oblivion_Update.rar

Note that this update contains the things done in the previous one, so that one is no longer needed.
The download link is still the same.
 

Oldtimer

Knight
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Hi,

is Horse Archery for player nerfed?

I play as a mounted thrower, have HA 6 and can`t hit a barn at 22 paces, even when it stands still.

Re enemies "fleeing in terror", there`s nothing more dangerous. They execute an orderly retreat and I suffer most losses when enemies are "terrified". This design fault applies in general, it`s not this mod specifically. What I`d like to know is if weapon proficiencies of fleeing troops could be reduced by, say, 75%?

Another question is if player will be approached by lords offering fiefs solely on his/hers/its renown earned as an independent adventurer? Don`t know if it`s a vanilla feature, but it is possible in Gekokujo mod.
Kinda realistic too, high renown means you´re dangerous and better had as friend.

Rgds, Oldtimer
 
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Well I didn't touch anything regarding the horse archery, just reduced the accuracy of most bows and throwing weapons, the latter being just too powerful (Nord Elite troops come to mind)
One of my friends plays as a horse archer and he is unbelievably skilled now, I can't even figure out how he aims and kills over half the battlefield.

About the second and third things you mentioned, It can be done for sure but I do not know how to do it, I just don't have that amount of experience with modding since I work alone on this mod, and the only support is you guys who help me fix bugs and add stuff.

 

Oldtimer

Knight
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Sir Integra Hellsing said:
Oldtimer said:
Hi,

is Horse Archery for player nerfed?

I play as a mounted thrower, have HA 6 and can`t hit a barn at 22 paces, even when it stands still.

Re enemies "fleeing in terror", there`s nothing more dangerous. They execute an orderly retreat and I suffer most losses when enemies are "terrified". This design fault applies in general, it`s not this mod specifically. What I`d like to know is if weapon proficiencies of fleeing troops could be reduced by, say, 75%?

Another question is if player will be approached by lords offering fiefs solely on his/hers/its renown earned as an independent adventurer? Don`t know if it`s a vanilla feature, but it is possible in Gekokujo mod.
Kinda realistic too, high renown means you´re dangerous and better had as friend.

Rgds, Oldtimer
Well I didn't touch anything regarding the horse archery, just reduced the accuracy of most bows and throwing weapons, the latter being just too powerful (Nord Elite troops come to mind)
One of my friends plays as a horse archer and he is unbelievably skilled now, I can't even figure out how he aims and kills over half the battlefield.

About the second and third things you mentioned, It can be done for sure but I do not know how to do it, I just don't have that amount of experience with modding since I work alone on this mod, and the only support is you guys who help me fix bugs and add stuff.
Hi,

THX for your attn.  If nerfed accuracy of ranged weapons applies also to NPC:s it`s kinda acceptable, otherwise not.

Re lords actively seeking player out to offer vassalage, perhaps you could contact the Gekokujo dev and ask how it`s done?

Rgds, Oldtimer
 
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Oldtimer said:
Sir Integra Hellsing said:
Oldtimer said:
Hi,

is Horse Archery for player nerfed?

I play as a mounted thrower, have HA 6 and can`t hit a barn at 22 paces, even when it stands still.

Re enemies "fleeing in terror", there`s nothing more dangerous. They execute an orderly retreat and I suffer most losses when enemies are "terrified". This design fault applies in general, it`s not this mod specifically. What I`d like to know is if weapon proficiencies of fleeing troops could be reduced by, say, 75%?

Another question is if player will be approached by lords offering fiefs solely on his/hers/its renown earned as an independent adventurer? Don`t know if it`s a vanilla feature, but it is possible in Gekokujo mod.
Kinda realistic too, high renown means you´re dangerous and better had as friend.

Rgds, Oldtimer
Well I didn't touch anything regarding the horse archery, just reduced the accuracy of most bows and throwing weapons, the latter being just too powerful (Nord Elite troops come to mind)
One of my friends plays as a horse archer and he is unbelievably skilled now, I can't even figure out how he aims and kills over half the battlefield.

About the second and third things you mentioned, It can be done for sure but I do not know how to do it, I just don't have that amount of experience with modding since I work alone on this mod, and the only support is you guys who help me fix bugs and add stuff.
Hi,

THX for your attn.  If nerfed accuracy of ranged weapons applies also to NPC:s it`s kinda acceptable, otherwise not.

Re lords actively seeking player out to offer vassalage, perhaps you could contact the Gekokujo dev and ask how it`s done?

Rgds, Oldtimer
Yes it applies to every unit in the game. However, that can be also a dangerous thing since the AI shoots arrows straight at you and if you are for example riding and he shoots and his shot goes a bit to the side you are going because of the reduced accuracy, you get hit. While this might be too harsh when facing elite archers, it makes more sense, since you as a player also try to shoot a litle ahead of a moving enemy.

About the vassalage thing, I really don't know, doesn't happen to me. I also noticed a very strange thing about the mod performance on different computers. I had a weird bug in a quest that none of my friends have. But they have their own collection of little bugs that never happened to me, and all of us use the exactly same mod version.

And about the dev you mentioned, I doubt it could help me since I develop this mod without a source code and pretty much any of the major things requires a source code and even if I had it right now, It would take another 2-3 months to rewrite the current game code into the source code and I just can't do it right now.
 

Oldtimer

Knight
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@Sir Integra Hellsing

Hi,

you manage all this without without using source code? You masochist or something? Quite an achievement, BTW.

On topic, it is a little strange that nerfed accuracy of ranged weapons actually increases hit probability, in my eyes at least...
As it distorts foot combat too. If your line is within range of enemy ranged and standing still(not always the best tactics but necessary sometimes) they will take extra losses because the enemy misses. Also spreading out might work to your disadvantage.

Perhaps a feature to reappraise, IMO.

Rgds, Oldtimer
 
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Yup, no source code. But then, I have worked on two mods so far and the first took over 2 years to complete, while I was still learning how stuff works, and then two years have passed when I didn't do anything and when I went to college, I met a few friends who were interested in the game and they encouraged me to start this mod. That was 1,5 years ago. I work almost every day on the mod, adding and balancing new stuff, fixing some bugs that I can, as much as the no-source-code method allows me.

And regarding the accuracy, we need to consider some things. Firs, factions' elite archers have nearly 99% accuracy, the best exapmple is the Vaegir Elite Archer,  Archdrake. You can find them In the Vaegir realm in their elite patrols along with the other two Vaegir elite troops to see for yourself. Similarly, ether elite ranged units have very good accuracy at long range. As we go down the ranks, the units are less and less accurate with their shots, with bandits and similar troops shooting arrows all over the place. That's how an inexperienced human archer would shoot. I myself have used numerous weapons including a bow, and I can see the progress I made throughout the years in terms of accuracy, while the bow is the same.
And one more thing, those archers that spray their shots everywhere, are always very inexperienced with the bow, and have low stats so with mail+ armor, you can almost negate arrow damage from weak short and nomad bows. If an enemy archer is very accurate with their shots, you basically don't want to get hit by that.
 

Oldtimer

Knight
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@Integra Hellsing

THX for your attn. While I agree that low lvl archers(not throwers) are no big threat to someone in quality mail or plate, their high hit probability due to low accuracy is devastating to low lvl player char/NPC in poor armour.
Some might call it fake challenge.

Rgds, Oldtimer
 
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Damn, I still haven't figured out how to become a moderator so that I can organize the board a little better since I have no clue how to do it now, you know, like in the other mods, but I want to include this section here now, it's about the numerous secret and rare weapons and armor. As many of you awesome guys figured out, there are a ton of rare items that aren't available on the market for purchase, and some of these items are unique in their type. So the items are categorized in common, rare and unique. I will list here some of the rare and unique weapons and do a brief description since some of them are a lot more than a stronger version in their respective weapon class.

Let's start with the Silver Swag Sword
This early game sword is an unique weapon in it's properties, being a two/one handed slashing sword and a pistol at the same time. by pressing X you switch between the modes. This is the only "firearm" in the game and comes with it's own ammunition. However, the damage from the shot isn't that great for the sake of balance, but it's still a fun weapon to use, versatile at least. You can find this weapon in a secret chest in one of the towns (and please don't post where for the people who have found this weapon)

Another unique one is the Sword of Astora, obtainable through a quest given by a lady which requires you to have a duel with one of the kings of Calaradia. Another two/one handed sword, but this one if very fast and has bonus armor penetration.

Strange Engraved Greatsword
This Great sword is given to you by a mysterious character who only wants it to be delivered to another strange person. You can use the sword in the meantime providing you have the strength to wield it, as it has very high damage output, but is unbearably heavy. Still, the most interesting thing about the sword is that it belongs to one of the major characters in this mod, I won't spoil it to you. Later in the game, you will surely see this sword again, in it's full glory, and even a visual effect that no other weapon has. The story of this sword is similar to the story of another character that exists in Calaradia now, and it's reflected by the armor that one wears. It's a story that the player creates by himself, for it's not made of words, only of facts and speculation.

War Crown: Used by most kings in the game and for a good reason, this Ornate Great Helm has very high stats and is compatible with most armor sets, making you the real warlord on the battlefield. You can acquire one when you become your own king and build a blacksmith, or you can try to defeat the kings to loot it from them.

Food Crate: A 200 unit food crate that rarely appears in the market. Uses up only one slot in the inventory but has 200 food units. However, like meat, it loses it's quality over time until it becomes rotten.

Now for some of the more common items, a few things to keep in mind.

Mail Breaker: This fast thrusting dagger is excelent for a backup weapon when in massive crowds as it's short reach and massive speed allow for strong thrusts even at point blank range. Try it out for yourself. It's a one handed weapon but gains a different thrusting animation when used without a shield, which has more space to build up speed.

Great Club and Grant: The Great Club is one of the simplest weapons also proves to be one of the most lethal ones. This great club redesigned for warfare has two significant features: First, it can crush through blocks with it's overhead attack, and secondly, It can ONLY attack with an overhead swing. Surely it's harder to hit someone like that all the time but it's one of the best weapons for your companions. Try it out and see the results. The computer AI performs incredibly well with this weapon. There are also several units in the game who use it, most notably sarranid and vaegir troops.
The Grant is a stronger and heavier version of this weapon, made completely out of iron. It's one of the slowest weapons in the game but it nearly one-shots everything.

Now for some of the faction-related uniques:

Swadian Royal Blade: Used by the Swadian king only, this heavy two-handed greatsword has high damage, great reach, ability to crush through blocks with it's great weight, but it's also a tad slow. Balance. It can only be obtained by defeating the king himself in open battle and having a high looting skill to get it. Another unique weapon you can get from the king is the Swadian Regent Sword, a weaker version of his great blade, but still a very good weapon overall, by doing a special quest for the king. Lastly, the King will give you the Knight Lord Great Lance as a gift once your relation with swadians is at least 50+

Espadon: This is one of the longest and heaviest swords in the game. Interestingly, this sword 's thrust is stronger than the swing as it's long slender blade gives it great speed/weight ration and can act as a very strong spear against cavalry. The Swadian Gothic Knights are the only units in the game who use this weapon.

Another unique weapon that is not directly related to Swadians but is found amongst them is the Sword of Want, the blade of the Baneful Queen of Swadia. I will remain silent about this weapon for now.

The section below will be updated, by now I got bored of writing but I hope you got the idea of what I wanted to say.

Similarly to the Swadian King, the other kings also have a few unique items which you can get by either defeating them and looting, or doing a special quest, or when your relation is 50+ with the FACTION, not the king.

Iron King Hammer - weapon used by the Vaegir King

Silver Claymore - Vaegir King Quest reward

Mountain Lord Great Bow (the strongest bow in the game) - gift from Vaegir King at 50+ relation

Jagged Sabre: A very fast, strong sabre used by vaegir elite units. Excelent for massacring low-tier units. Can be used one/two handed but sadly is not very effective against armor.

Ruin Sentinel Warhammer - Used by troops with the same name, the Vaegir Ruin Sentinels, this long great hammer can crush through block easily, can knock down a full plate armored soldier over and over and is a deadly weapon to face against. Very slow but very powerful.

Ragnar Axe of Headsmashing (one of the best melee weapons) - Used by nord King Ragnar

Ragnar Axe of Neckchopping (a little faster & weaker then the above)- Nord King quest reward

Nordic Runeaxe - gift from Nord King at 50+ relation

Ulfberht - This historic viking blade is one of the best overall one-handed weapons in the game. Used only by nord Elite units. Find more about this weapon here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXbLyVpWsVM

Nord Hero Greatsword and Kurgan - these two handed swords are used by the respective Nord Elites, there isn't much special about them except the Hero Greatsword can crush blocks.

Titanite Halberd - used by Rhodok King Graveth, this halberd can be used one/two handed, can be used as a lance and also can swing from horseback, 180 length. You can also get this weapon by doing a special quest for the king.

Chain Crossbow - used by King Graveth and Rhodok Elite units. you can get it at 50+ relation. This is an extremely rapid firing crossbow, it acts more like a rifle, with you actually reloading the bolt clip once it has fired all of them. Shoots 30 bolts before reloading and can be used on horseback.

Arbalest - this is the strongest ranged weapon in the game, albeit the slowest. Used by Rhodok Assaulters (Noble-Sharpshooter-Sniper-Assaulter)

Tercio Pikeman Set - includes the full armor and a pike, this is the complete equipment of the Rhodok Tercio Pikeman, one of the strongest troops in large numbers, who are the sole reason Rhodoks have only 2 Elite Units, instead of the standard three. Obtained by defeating those troops and looting.

Khan's Supermancy - A beautiful Curved bastard sword, this sword packs quite a strong and fast punch. Used by the Khergit Great Khan, Sanjar. Also obtainable by having 50+ relation with the faction.

Tulgan Bow - Khergit elite bow used by Snajar the Great Khan and one of their elite units.
Obtainable only by looting it from them.

Sunhallowed Arrows - The second strongest but comes with the highest number of arrows in bag (50). Obtainable by doing the special quest for the king.

Scepter - great one/two handed mace used by the khergit Orloks, their strongest nobles. Great reach and power, but quite slow swing speed.

Flame Scythe - This is the weapon that is a lance, a sabre, a halberd and a pike, all in one. Used by the Red Khergit Elites. Only obtainable by looting from them.

Sultan's wrath - Extremely fast scimitar, can be used one/two handed. Used By Sultan Hakim. Also obtainable by doing the special quest for him.

Dragonlance - The longest and strongest but also the slowest lance in the game. So great is it's power that with enough speed, in can penetrate an enemy straight through his shield. That's right, this lance with the right timing renders any defense useless, be it armor, weapon or shield. Currently there is a bug where Sultan Hakim doesn't give it to you at 50+ relation, I really don't know how to fix it. You can still get it from the Sarranid Elite and full trained nobles, or from the Vaegir Elite Dragonriders.

Dragon Spear - One of the shortest but deadliest spears in the game. Similar to the mail breaker, it can only thrust but the damage of this spear is much higher.

Fauchard - Halberd/Scythe type weapon carried by one of the Sarranid Elite units. Very heavy and powerful, beware.

Bonewood Sniper Longbow - this is the most accurate bow in the game. Obtainable from defeating Sarranid Elite units.

And lastly, there is all of the items from the Dark Knights faction. There are too many items to list here since each one of their respective lords also has his own personal equipment, but the whole list includes several armor sets, 20+ new and unique weapons and several new horses, all of which are only obtainable by defeating the Dark Knights and looting it from them.

And finally, I will list the spawn rates for all the horses in the market. Note that only the Dark Knight Horses are unobtaniable through the market, all the others, even the ones used by kings can be rarely found there:

If the normal spawn rate for all items and horses is 100, the spawn rates are as follows:

Saddle Horse : 100
Hunters : 100
Stallions : 90
Coursers : 90
Steppe Horses : 80
Arabian Horses : 80
Warhorses : 50
Heraldic Warhorse : 40
Chargers : 40
Steel Plate Armored Chargers : 25
King's Warhorses : 15
Great Charger and Dragon Charger : 10
King's Charger and Drakewing Charger : 5
 
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Notice, as of July 1. (tomorrow) the mod will receive a major update which will be almost final. The future updates will be only bug fixes or rarely new stuff. This is a major update and it is not 100% save game compatible. However, there really isn't many reasons to start a new game because there aren't really huge differences, much of the stuff is revolved around balancing and changing some items and troop stats. Some weapons have been removed, some new stuff was added and that is ok with the save game, although some new things require a new game. The complete updated mod will be available on the same download link where it was the first time, and the update link will be removed. This is the full mod with the update since i have lost count what i have updated since the last time I uploaded the file to the net.
 
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Aw man sorry I still haven't uploaded the mod, I have some Internet issues, most notably is not having a full-time internet connection, and that screws up the upload.
 

jumona

Recruit
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Hey love the mod good fun :grin:
I made a new character ran around a bit to build a army then went to my usual farming location... coast of the vaegirs to hunt me some sea raiders and that is when i found this...
Very interesting and also terrifying.
Anyone have an idea about this or speculation...?
 

YourStepDad

Baron
WBWF&SNWVC
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I must say some of your work is pretty grand. Quite possibly the best and most fitting redesign of Swadia yet!