A long existing upgrade flaw!

[Balinux]

Whenever your troops upgrade, they receive a lot of new good and costly items. How where they able to buy them? I mean, imagine knights for example, whenever they 'evolve' we have to pay a small price for the process. But the price should be much higher, it should be the medium cost of all their items minus the cost of their previous stuff that they would sell to help raise cash. Hipotecticaly of course.

So, my point is, shouldn't the player the obligated to pay the all expences of the upgrade?, say... 6000 8000 denars for knight? maybe more...
It souds scary, but it would make us value our best troops more. Plus, it would help ending the tendency that many of us have to raise top tier troops and large soms of money in a short period of time, thus making the game boring.
Of course, if we joined a faction, the upgrading price could be cut in half due to the influence of the kingdoms' treasury.

The overal idea is to make the game look more realisticaly chalenging.
Discuss.


(ps- I dont think this should be moved to the privy counsil, but you guys do what you think its best.)

 

[Redcoat-Mic]

If we were going to have to do that, we'd need more money from doing things and knights were going to have to be massively improved in use.
As it stands now, a crossbow bolt to the head and you've wasted 8000 denars. Don't forget that you're not really an army but more of a raiding party, the other troops will take their share of money.

 

[Balinux]

If we were going to have to do that, we'd need more money from doing things and knights were going to have to be massively improved in use.
As it stands now, a crossbow bolt to the head and you've wasted 8000 denars. Don't forget that you're not really an army but more of a raiding party, the other troops will take their share of money.

Maybe not, if you win the battle, the chance of gathering the items from your fallen could be implemented. And if so, you wouldnt lose that much money. And the all point here is to make the game more chalenging.

 

[Llew2]

I like the idea as long as it could be done and not unbalance the game. It, or something like it, would have to be done for the enemy lords as well as the player.

 

[AlexGK]

PC:Soo 300 denarii to hire you, right? Here u go!
Hired Blade: Wooot, 300 denarii?!? U got to be kidding pal, my right glove costs that much!!!


Swadian Knight: Damn dude, the boss is pissed! Miki got killed...
Other Swadian Knight:Yea I heard his plate mail got cracked... and his boots were lost.

 

[Toxicity]

I've always thought this was an good idea, I'm all for it. 

 

[Redcoat-Mic]

If we were going to have to do that, we'd need more money from doing things and knights were going to have to be massively improved in use.
As it stands now, a crossbow bolt to the head and you've wasted 8000 denars. Don't forget that you're not really an army but more of a raiding party, the other troops will take their share of money.

Maybe not, if you win the battle, the chance of gathering the items from your fallen could be implemented. And if so, you wouldnt lose that much money. And the all point here is to make the game more chalenging.

Still wouldn't be for it, it's expensive enough to get all your equipment and especially now raiding villages has been nerfed.

 

[mrcrotch]

The way I see it. Though the battles your soilders have probably got their fair share of looting so they should have quite alot and I think it's fine the way it is.

 

[Rameusb5]

I think this "flaw" balances out pretty nicely with the fact that the loot you collect from battles doesn't even come close to covering what you SHOULD recieve.

 

[Balinux]

I like the idea as long as it could be done and not unbalance the game. It, or something like it, would have to be done for the enemy lords as well as the player.

What for? You never saw the Lords dealing with money, only the player. I dont see the need for it, please explain.

Still wouldn't be for it, it's expensive enough to get all your equipment and especially now raiding villages has been nerfed.

Expensive is the all point! Right now my caracter has more then 20000 denars then he needs. I also sugested that if you were part of a faction, the upgrading cost would be much lower. Add that to the taxes you receive regularly from your fiefs and the usual village raiding and you should have enought money for several top tier troops a week.

I think this "flaw" balances out pretty nicely with the fact that the loot you collect from battles doesn't even come close to covering what you SHOULD recieve.

But why do you want money that you wont use?

 

[mrcrotch]

^ Agreed. Think about how much each of the troops you kill get paid. At level 20 I had 700ish men killed. I should be a millionaire by then.


Edit: Yes I was talking about Rameus's. Oops.

 

[Stonewall382]

I think MrCrotch was talking about Rameus's post.

Remember though that your men take loot and gold from every battle.  That's why a solo character gets more loot and gold per party than a party character.  Over time, that would all add up.

 

[Janrok]

I think it should also be added that to upgrade troops, you would have to be in a town, so they can buy their new arms and armor

Just a suggestion

 

[Roller]

So, my point is, shouldn't the player the obligated to pay the all expences of the upgrade?, say... 6000 8000 denars for knight? maybe more...
It souds scary, but it would make us value our best troops more.

High-tier units are already very expensive in terms of invested time and babysitting. Charging 7000 denars for each seems like an overkill. Especially since they are AI controlled( read: dumb) and die easily.

Maybe one could pay 7000 for each knight slot. Means you pay 7K for equipment once, which can be reused by the next recruited knight should the first one die in battle.

 

[Balinux]

I think it should also be added that to upgrade troops, you would have to be in a town, so they can buy their new arms and armor

Just a suggestion

I was thinking about that myself, good call!

So, my point is, shouldn't the player the obligated to pay the all expences of the upgrade?, say... 6000 8000 denars for knight? maybe more...
It souds scary, but it would make us value our best troops more.

High-tier units are already very expensive in terms of invested time and babysitting. Charging 7000 denars for each seems like an overkill. Especially since they are AI controlled( read: dumb) and die easily.

Maybe one could pay 7000 for each knight slot. Means you pay 7K for equipment once, which can be reused by the next recruited knight should the first one die in battle.

Well, yes. Its similiar to what I said about gathering the items from your fallen troops. But then there's the realism problem of 2nd hand items getting degraded with use. Like horses getting killed, shields getting shatered...    Using the very same stuff over and over again its not very practical. That's why new items should be bought for every upraded troop.

 

[Cleaning agent]

It sounds like an average to OK idea, only there's no way a set of plate costs 6-8K. If you're talking normal equipment (no modifiers) then even a swadian knight is only looking at 2K maximum.

For it to be worth considering you'd have to make troops upgrade a lot faster than they do now so your money would at least go towards something. Otherwise, you could just wait for them to upgrade the normal way, through looting off corpses.

Another thing you have to take into account is that, sure right now you have tons of excess cash, but would you have so much success if your knights all cost 7K? Would you be able to do the things that get you money if your troops were ****e? I think what you're suggesting wouldn't balance out in the long term with new players needing ridiculous amounts of playtime to get even a basic corps of troops together.

 

[Redcoat-Mic]

But why do you have to pay for it for them? That money is yours, people bought armour for themselves in those days, not equipped by the commander.
And I say again, they'd take their share of the money from the loot and the battlefield so they could afford it.

 

[Rameusb5]

I think this "flaw" balances out pretty nicely with the fact that the loot you collect from battles doesn't even come close to covering what you SHOULD recieve.

But why do you want money that you wont use?

Let me say this another way.

Instead of forcing us to equip our troops with money, and selling all of the loot that we SHOULD be getting for said money, just leave it alone.

That, or you can assume that your troops are getting their equipment by picking it up off the battlefield.

In any case, I hate micromanagment.  It's fine the way it is now, at least for me.  You already have to micromanage your heros.  I can't imagine having to do that for 40 guys, some of whom are constantly dying and losing equipment.


The only thing that MIGHT need changed is that the best troops should probably cost a lot more than they do now (weekly pay).  Although the Hired blades are expensive when they join, you can always pick them up from defeated enemy units.

 

[AvaRice]

It's already very painful to lose a high-tier soldier which you may have trained for a long time. If anything, soldiers should be more expendable so that players won't fret so much over the high/balanced casualties that should be expected when going into battle.

 

[Great Warrior]

Why not just keep it historical.

Knights brought their own horses and equipment with them in those days. The king didn't pay for it.