A keyboard replacement for Warband and Bannerlord

[alden]

Hey M&B community!

I have some exciting news.

A friend of mine is launching a Kickstarter for a hardware keyboard replacement for gaming next week which i believe is going to work very well with Warband and Bannerloard. He's already built the device, and set up a production pipeline.

Check out the draft version of the launch video! I'll post a walkthrough video of use with Warband once I get my hands on a production run of the device in the near future.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/201211841/1118645076?ref=551499&token=7efc6435

Cheers!

 

[Orion]

That looks awkward as hell, not gonna lie. The unfortunate reality is that to combine control inputs (like W + D for moving diagonally forward & right) you would have to bind movement actions to each hat switch and use two or more simultaneously to achieve combo inputs, OR you would have to dedicate one hat switch specifically to movement and apply all 4 cardinal directions + 4 diagonals to it, using up all of its keybinds (assuming it allows multiple simultaneous inputs on a single bind, which I hope it does). Both of these work against the controller's stated purpose, which is to make controlling games faster, simpler, and more intuitive. With movement mapped to multiple switches, you're essentially making two or more keystrokes to achieve a combined input, which is just like a keyboard. Nothing is gained, and in fact reliability would likely be lost. Each switch is directional, so you would not only have to hit the right one but also push it in the correct direction and far enough to register. That's clumsier than keyboards. With a single switch mapped to all 8 basic and combo direction inputs, you might as well be using any other controller with a hat switch or a gamepad with a joystick for analog input. You're left with two switches with a combined total of 8 inputs (4 each, apparently), but an Xbox 360 controller gives you that plus a second analog stick and D-pad. The only advantage this controller offers over a gamepad is that you don't have to lift your fingers from any of the controls to access others. Another downside is that you have to move your fingers in some awkward ways to access all of the mappings. The left and right switches in particular would be awkward when triggering the inward mappings.

You're also limited to 3 simultaneous inputs. My keyboard has n-key rollover, so I can move diagonally while holding shift, space, and pressing R. That's 5 keystrokes and something I have done many times before (e.g. boosting with a jetpack diagonally while reloading). Even with combo movement directions mapped to a single hat switch, this controller would only reasonably provide 4 simultaneous keystrokes. You could bind shift+space to a side stick, but you would probably have shift and space as separate binds as well. That's just oddball, and eats up 3 binds out of 8 between the two side sticks.

On a positive note, that would be a neat, compact racing controller. It might still require pairing with pedals though, and then you're just marketing to a niche market of people who don't have a lot of desk real estate but want the driving control that a wheel provides. I happen to be in that niche, but ~$150 USD is a bit steep for what would just be a wheel replacement to me, especially because I would still want to buy pedals after. I'd be getting pedals I could also use for flight sims so those will set me back more than the controller.

 

[ryozu]

Idea is kind of neat. I'd be concerned what the exact spacing of the three controllers is ergonomics wise, as efficient use would be much more dependant on hand size than a normal keyboad. Seems like it'd be liable to cause repetitive stress injuries to your joints and tendons if it doesn't fit your hand size very well.

 

[Orion]

For feedback particular to the Kickstarter page, there are some formatting and grammatical issues with it but it's just a draft and I imagine it will be reviewed before going live. I won't dwell on those. As for actual content, it's never specified if the main stick is fully analog, or how it functions as a steering wheel. I imagine it spins like a steering wheel, but are stick inputs also capable of being analog or are they always digital?

 

[alden]

I'll see if I can get Ed on here to answer some of these questions. I haven't used the controller yet

 

[VinnyPooh]

marnid the dream destroyer

 

[theDonut]

Miss me with that lowkey advertisement u foo.

 

[alden]

So I had a good chat with Ed, the inventor of this thing, and he was excited to address each and every one of the concerns brought up here.

This is typed from memory. Hopefully I'm not forgetting anything:

@orion
Apparently the thing was designed with ambidextrous ergonomic efficiency as a top priority. It's built to be a better (less awkward) solution for FPS gaming than a keyboard. I'm excited to see real world reviews and to get my hands on a production unit.

The stick inputs are analog, and open source drivers are shipping alongside the device. By default a lot of this stuff will already be mapped, and what isn't mapped by default can be adjusted through the software interface. For example, you can trigger multiple actions based on the degree the analog stick is traveling, so you could map a 'sprint' action to pushing a analog stick all the way forward, while just a partial push would direct walking speed.

This device is built to be used with a mouse, which is an obvious value add over a standard gaming controller which is meant for two handed use.

To my knowledge there is not a limit to 3 simultaneous inputs.

@ryozu
I believe that the primary joystick, wheel, and a secondary joystick are meant to be the primary input devices, along side the 8 program select switches. The tertiary joystick is primarily intended to provide ambidextrous support, although it also can be used to supplement input with a finger flick, although that doesn't sound very ergonomically efficient.

Btw the actual Kickstarter is live!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/201211841/the-pla-motion-controller-is-the-ultimate-fps-cont

Cheers

 

[Orion]

Analog input is the greatest advantage of a controller/stick/wheel, so it's good that the sticks here aren't just awkward digital inputs. Not sure how the programmable inputs will be differentiated from analog inputs, though. That's the source of my confusion, I think.

 

[Lord Brutus]

Still sounds like a racing simulator modified for a role as an FPS.

 

[Orion]

I can see some potential applications for it. I wouldn't be marketing it towards the FPS crowd, I'd go after the Star Citizen crazies and the Mil-Sim crowd. There's plenty of people in those circles that would like to have a versatile controller with keymap hot-swap capability. Like for Arma, I'd appreciate a controller with a steering wheel for driving cars and boats along with an analog thumbstick for controlling throttle if I didn't have pedals. It certainly has a smaller footprint than a racing wheel, and pedals wouldn't be required. With the relatively simple aircraft controls in Arma, I could also manage to bind all of the important stuff for flying a helicopter or plane onto this controller, and it might be a little longer than my flight stick's base but it's slimmer.

In Star Citizen, the appeal wouldn't be using this with a mouse, it would be using it instead of a mouse (at least while flying). I have a right-handed mouse and a right-handed stick, so operating anything other than fixed weaponry while piloting in Star Citizen is a pain in the ass because gimbal & turret weapons are aimed with the mouse. Some SC nuts use two sticks or a hat-switch on their stick. Both options have their drawbacks, like requiring another input device for analog throttle/using digital (probably incremental) throttle control, or decreased aiming precision from digital inputs & the opportunity cost of using one of your programmable multi-directional switches for aiming. This little controller would be smaller than a second stick and offer analog & digital input options in an ambidextrous configuration. Plus, SC also has ground vehicles which could benefit from the steering wheel.

So yeah, IDK about pushing this towards the FPS crowd where keyboard & mouse are the only serious contenders on PC. I would go for the communities that already embrace controllers of different types because they have a genuine need for digital & analog inputs. Those communities are also full of people who are willing to drop this kind of money on a peripheral.

 

[lolbash]

Someone tell this guy's advertising department to think of a better less cheesy video.

 

[alden]

@orion it was built from the ground up for FPS. The inventor prioritized FPS when designing the thing, and the last product I know of that he brought to market was the Mouse Bungee, which he sold to Razer; which, while simple, was thoroughly thought through, as I assume this product has been. I'm excited to play with a production unit and will post here when I do.

Backtracking a bit, that is interesting feedback about Star Citizen and I'll pass it on to Ed. Mil-sim is definitely a perfect application.

 

[Orion]

Well, Mil-Sim games are typically FPS at their core, they just offer a variety of other content as well where a versatile controller would be very beneficial. Star Citizen also has FPS, and while there's nothing stopping someone from using this controller for the FPS aspects of these games I feel that the greatest gains would be had in the other aspects.

 

[Roccoflipside]

One thing to keep in mind is some people have been playing with the WASD's for 20, going on 30 years. At this point it's probably easier to continue doing what they know rather than dropping extra cash on a device they aren't sure will work for them. It seems like a cool product, I'm just not sure I'd ever want to take the time/frustration to learn how to use it properly when I could keep playing the way I have been for years and years.