A few beginning questions

[ragnarok83]

Just started playing this mod and really enjoyed it so far but had a few questions:

1. I didn't really know what I was doing so I decided to become a vassal of Pisa before realizing how terrible they are to start with.  Is there a way to leave that faction and become a free agent or am I stuck with them?  Also what is a good starting place for someone who wants the Western European troop type and a prosperous area? I am having difficulty making money.

2.  In one battle I was playing, It was 400  troops (80 of which were mine) vs the enemies (540). I was doing ok to start but the enemy kept sending a new wave and the troops I had on the field were mostly archers and crossbowman.  They ran out of ammo after a few waves and were just completely useless.  Is there anyway to have them leave the field to send in fresh troops that have ammo or to resupply the troops already on the field?

3. What is more effective, being an mounted archer or a mounted crossbowman?  I figure the xbow does more damage but it takes forever to load.  I am just wondering if archery is more efficient in killing enemies.

 

[bakters]

1.  You talk to your king and leave.  -20 relations with him.
2.  In Native there was a command for telling your troops to retreat.  I forgot which one, but I couldn't find it in this mod.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's removed.  No command for resupply.
3.  Bows are better.  You don't even need any Power Draw.  Most damage comes from the arrow, so even a puny cracked bow with 1c damage will deal 30 damage at the start, and it will go up with your weapon profs.  Crossbows don't scale with that., and they have less ammo and are slower. 

Anyway, I tried to level up my companions with bows and crossbows.  They hit way more with the bows.  With crossbows they were pathetic even at very close range.  Somehow they managed to miss.  Bolt trajectory or whatevs, but they missed and levelled up very slowly.

So until you like to start quickly I would say that doing some soloing and some tournaments is a good way of starting up.  You can level up quickly and gather money and renown for later.  At 300 renown you are guaranteed to get a fief if you are male.

 

[Arszi]

3.  Bows are better.  You don't even need any Power Draw.  Most damage comes from the arrow, so even a puny cracked bow with 1c damage will deal 30 damage at the start, and it will go up with your weapon profs.  Crossbows don't scale with that., and they have less ammo and are slower. 

Indeed, the bows are "better", but the MOST important thing about their damage calculation are your power draw and the power draw requirement of the bow. Every power draw requirement adds +0,14% damage for the bow and you can have 4 * 0,14% extra if you have higher power draw than the requirements of the bow. Also you get + 1 dmg / 5 strengths and the bow skill too affects the damage, but I do not remember it's formula. Crossbow skill affects only the reload speed, does not give extra dmg.

 

[ragnarok83]

Thanks for the replies, I saw that the crossbows do like 30 damage to go with the 30 damage of the bolt so I figured that was better than the bow which does around 9 damage and the arrow that does 30 (looking at beginner level equipment. I also assumed that crossbowmen were better than archers when dealing with heavily armored troops. 

Since you cannot retreat troops what do you guys usually do tactics or strategy wise on larger battles when there are a ton of reinforcement waves.  It almost assuredly means the death of all my starting troops and most likely the 2nd and 3rd waves. This is especially true when my archers and crossbowmen run out of ammo.  Is there a consensus on how to manage this instead of losing the first few hundred troops?

 

[Arszi]

bow: requires power draw investment but will cause much higher damage.
crossbow: does not requires power draw investment, but causes less damage.
bowman: weak meele skills, but causes more ranged damage.
crossbowman: better, almost infantry like meele skills, but causes lesser ranged damage.
If ranged troops run out of ammo, the crossbowmen will have a considerable advantage over the bowmen. I say, if it is possible, use bot of them in your army.
About the battle, search for a high spot, send you archer/crossbowmen up to that spot, and station your infantry in front of them (a bit lower, to allow your randged troop to have a clear field of sight.) Order your mounted troops to follow you. When the enemy charges you, their mounted troops can't use their speed advantage uphill, they will be slaughtered by your troops. When this happens, you and your horsemen make a half circle around the map, and flank the enemy archers. after they are dead, retreat immediately to your trops, and wait for the next chance to flank the enemy archers. Do not engage enemy infantry/cavalry until it is not necessary!

 

[DeGoblin]

You should also try timing your shots if you suspect ammo will be an issue. Don't let your units fire too early.

 

[wolfgary]

I just wonder how many Power Draw points  people are advised to invest, since skills points are hard to come by?

 

[DeSoto]

I don't know about you guys, but I can make my units retreat with F1>F5...works also selectively, e.g. only with archers. Of course foot troops are slow as hell, so you might want to pull your archers back in advance, otherwise you'll have to traverse half the map, which makes it easy for enemy cav to hunt them down.

Bows in comparison to Xbows seem to be too strong indeed, even a masterwork hunting bow (which I'm currently using because of the faster reload) can deal as much damage as a crossbow (excluding the siege ones). I got 96 body armor and a flimsy arrow hits me harder than any 2h melee weapon ever could, that just seems out of whack. Even in sieges crossbows are near useless, your guys will drop too fast because of the sloooow reload.

 

[bakters]

I just wonder how many Power Draw points  people are advised to invest, since skills points are hard to come by?

  You are not forced to invest any.  Masterwork Hunting Self Bow has the base damage of 10c plus 32c from arrows.  If you max out your PD for this bow at 4 you will get 15.6c from the bow itself, plus an arrow.  Extra 5.6 points of damage for 4 skill points investment...  1.4 damage per skill point!

In this mod until you go really high with PD, it's just not worth it.  And even then you might find that your DPS isn't much better at all, because high PD bows are slower.

So there is this one (Strong Hun Bow, or something) that has PD 6 and 12c of base damage.  6.72 extra from PD, plus an arrow gives you 50.72 total vs. unupgraded Masterwork Hunting Bow's 42. 

Seems good, but have a look at speed rating and accuracy.  MSHB is faster and more accurate.  Overall DPS can go either way, depending on exact values.  And that's what you get for huge investments. 

18 STR vs 12 STR (for top level armor) is extra 12 skill points which you can spend elsewhere if invested in INT, or extra 6 points in CHA and Leadership. 

I don't know about you guys, but I can make my units retreat with F1>F5...

  Damn, I'm getting old.  I just missed it.

 

[kalarhan]

2.  In one battle I was playing, It was 400  troops (80 of which were mine) vs the enemies (540). I was doing ok to start but the enemy kept sending a new wave and the troops I had on the field were mostly archers and crossbowman.  They ran out of ammo after a few waves and were just completely useless.  Is there anyway to have them leave the field to send in fresh troops that have ammo or to resupply the troops already on the field?

First -> control your archer rate of fire. You can tell them to hold fire / fire at will. That way they wont waste arrows when the enemy is miles away.
Second -> once they ran out of arrows you can tell them to charge as melee troops. They may be weaker than normal infantry, but they are good for flanking / attacking from the rear.
Third -> you can tell them to run away if you want new troops. Takes time tho. If you intend to do that stay near the starting position/close to the corner of the map. Dont travel to the enemy base point.

4th -> your skirmishes have very few ammo. So its wiser to put them in a special group (like #5) and use them manually. If you can get them to flank then fire at will they will destroy the enemy. If you let them fire at will they will waste javelins before the enemy is really close to actually hit.

 

[ragnarok83]

Instead of starting a new thread I figure I would just add on to this one.

1. My armies morale keeps dropping due to the number of people in my party.  What I don't understand is that my renown allows for 165 troops and I only have 145 yet the morale keeps dropping and I lose troops to desertion.  Is there anyway to counteract this?

2. Is there anyway to get companions to read books? I remember being able to do that with the Floris mod but I do not see an option to do it here.

3. I am playing as a vassal of Pisa.  When I recruit a lance it always seems like they are arches or only upgrade to crossbowman.  I almost never get infantry or cavalry troops it seems and so when I fight in a battle I end up with a large majority being only archers.  I end up having to recruit mercenary infantry or cavalry to just to have a somewhat balanced fighting force.  Is there anyway to get a more balanced troop force?

4. I can only recruit 4 companions even though the screen where you recruit companions says that others are available. The only other place where I get can companions is the recruit noble option.  Is there anyway to get more than the 4 companions and 3 nobles?

5. The trainer skill is listed as a personal skill but I have read different things that says the skill stacks with party members even though says personal skill.  I just wanted to make sure this is true before I dump trainer skill points into my companions.

 

[bakters]

1.  Throw away crappy units and fight all the time.  Have a variety of food in your inventory.  Fight a lot and win a lot.  I managed to keep my morale at Excellent despite having over 100 guys from various cultures (-72 cultural clashes modifier).

2.  I don't think so.  I searched the forums for a while, I guess it would come up.

3.  Freeing prisoners is one way to have a say on whom you take into your army.  I think you can get more cav from castles?  Sorry, I didn't really figure out this lance recruitment.

4.  You can have 29 companions.  Go to a lord in a city and enlist into his army.  Hire companions, ask for personal leave, come back, hire again and so forth. About a minute of clicking all told.  Then you can leave his army. 
    For noble companions you need a fief of their culture.  There are five cultures.  Catholic, orthodox, pagan, muslim and mongol.  You get catholic companions if you have a catholic fief and it works like that for every culture except mongol.  With mongols you will get them from any fief you get, no matter what culture it is.
    If you are male with over 300 renown you get a fief when you join a faction.  You can get your companions and leave (-20 relations with faction leader).

5.  Trainer skill stacks.  Actually, it is a personal skill.  It stacks because each companion will train each unit in turn, so the effect stacks, but it is a personal skill.

 

[DeSoto]

4.  You can have 29 companions.  Go to a lord in a city and enlist into his army.  Hire companions, ask for personal leave, come back, hire again and so forth. About a minute of clicking all told.  Then you can leave his army.

29? Is it meant to be that way? I got 8 (or 9?) and I already have those from when you declare your own kingdom. 29 seems like a ridiculous amount imo, considering that these guys can't die at all.

 

[gabe_90]

4.  You can have 29 companions.  Go to a lord in a city and enlist into his army.  Hire companions, ask for personal leave, come back, hire again and so forth. About a minute of clicking all told.  Then you can leave his army.

29? Is it meant to be that way? I got 8 (or 9?) and I already have those from when you declare your own kingdom. 29 seems like a ridiculous amount imo, considering that these guys can't die at all.

I haven't tried that, but I wouldn't want to abuse any mechanics of the mod so I just get the 4 or 5 commoner companions and after that the 3 nobles from my culture. Never started my own kingdom, but if it gives you a few extra nobles that's fine since it compensates for you being liable to make one or two noble companions lords. Joining factions just for companions and glitching the buggy freelancer code is bug-using imo.
Edit: I want to make it clear that I am not looking down on anyway running around with a fifty companion army or anything. Warband is famous for letting you play in your own style and even letting you modify almost anything. I just don't want my own playthroughs to become too gamey.

 

[bakters]

29? Is it meant to be that way? I got 8 (or 9?) and I already have those from when you declare your own kingdom. 29 seems like a ridiculous amount imo, considering that these guys can't die at all.

No, it's not "meant" to be like that, but it works.  I pretty much stopped playing at day somewhere around 100 with all of them with me when I realized that to make it all really work I need to get them to be level 27.

That's just too much work for me.

But once you get them to be at this level you have a very strong party which can take a stronghold all by themselves, and at the same time they are able to train new elite troops very efficiently.  I made them all into trainers.  Just count the points you get from that many trainers... >;-D

Anyway, I also found a way of leveling them up quickly.  You go against a group of mounted bandits and take all the aggro on yourself.  You slowly bring them out to the other side of the map and methodically dehorse all of them (trivial on untweaked games, still manageable on mine with 120 health light horses).  Then the AI gets stupid and goes after your archers (companions).  If you follow them up with the bow out, they will face you and turn their backs toward your guys, who promptly shoot them all up.

The most funny part is when AI decides to form a line in front of your archers, while facing the wrong way.  They die quickly, to say the least.

Apart from that, you need to equip them too.  The best thing is to buy one lame horse, one rusty elite scimitar and one cracked heavy shield.  Then you form them up and shoot the guy with the gear.  You mount his horse, grab his cracked shield and his rusty scimitar, which the game converts into normal horse, normal shield and normal scimitar after the battle.  So now you have two of each.  Very soon all of your guys are properly equipped.

With heavy horse and elite scimitars they become great against infantry.  They charge into them and start sawing back and forth with the scimitar.  All infantry has polearms, but they have a tendency for face-hugging.  This mod introduced double chamber-blocking, when you can chamber block both on the windup as on the strike itself, so a quick scimitar chambers all the time.  Needless to say, spears lose against it being used the way AI uses both weapons.

Heavy shields protect them on the way in, so they rarely even die.  Easy XP.

But the gameplay is boring.  To support your army you need to constantly loot stuff yourself, which is easy, just boring.  I tend to follow up my guys and grab their stuff as they die, which even with default trading gives enough money to support my army.

So this mod is actually quite easy, just grindish and boring in the long run.