Seriously, what happened?

[SixRibbons]

It helps if you play without the faction markers. For me floating big signs above the heads of my or the enemy troops are massively less immersive than uniform colors on the items. I even often disable the HUD for more immersion btw (wish there were a button for it). It could perhaps be made a bit less uniform, maybe troops could wear ribbons or other signs on their equipment (as in reality) but that would make additional changes necessary.

Both are immersion breaking, if one is optional, i think the other should be optional too. Shouldn't be that hard to implement i think.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

It would be so cool if Sturgia had general winter on their side and had special advantages in the snow. Factions in general need to have things that make them unique. Maybe Aserai could get advantages in the desert and vice versa for other factions. I don't know there's so much that could be cool but just isn't right now.

That would suck to be honest, every game with noticable weather bonuses just turns some factions into one dimensional gimmick armies where nothing except waiting for snow actually matters. And anything less than this is so minute that it might as well not be in the game.

If they have to have a bonus in winter i would prefer it be only specific troops, like maybe a specific infantry with skis or something, rather than the entire faction. So if someone wants to be a winter deathlord they can choose to do so, but the entire sturgian faction doesnt arbitrarily get stronger against everyone.

 

[Ningauble]

That would suck to be honest, every game with noticable weather bonuses just turns some factions into one dimensional gimmick armies where nothing except waiting for snow actually matters. And anything less than this is so minute that it might as well not be in the game.

If they have to have a bonus in winter i would prefer it be only specific troops, like maybe a specific infantry with skis or something, rather than the entire faction. So if someone wants to be a winter deathlord they can choose to do so, but the entire sturgian faction doesnt arbitrarily get stronger against everyone.

But it is only in snow.
So " winter is coming " ....... but it would play as ebb and flow.
Like, only invade Sturgia in spring - summer - autumn etc
And Sturgians would have limited offensive advantage. Only in snow.

Could add an interesting " real world " flavour, echoing Western logistics etc issues in various snow - bound Russian winter campaigns.

 

[Farticle]

That would suck to be honest, every game with noticable weather bonuses just turns some factions into one dimensional gimmick armies where nothing except waiting for snow actually matters. And anything less than this is so minute that it might as well not be in the game.

If they have to have a bonus in winter i would prefer it be only specific troops, like maybe a specific infantry with skis or something, rather than the entire faction. So if someone wants to be a winter deathlord they can choose to do so, but the entire sturgian faction doesnt arbitrarily get stronger against everyone.

I'm thinking of it like a minor sort of thing that to add realistic difficulty to invading into inhospitable terrain. Wouldn't people who live in the taiga be more comfortable campaigning and defending inside it? I'm just spitballing what makes sense to me. Terrain should matter more but these faction advantages can be a wide variety of things in and out of battle to spice it all up especially the boring non combat part of the game. As it is now aside from troops the factions just feel like clones.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

But it is only in snow.
So " winter is coming " ....... but it would play as ebb and flow.
Like, only invade Sturgia in spring - summer - autumn etc
And Sturgians would have limited offensive advantage. Only in snow.

Could add an interesting " real world " flavour, echoing Western logistics etc issues in various snow - bound Russian winter campaigns.

In WW2 the worst time of year to fight campaigns was the spring and autumn, because everything turns to mud. This affected both the soviets and the nazis because nobody has yet invented a tank or truck that can drive through mud. The red army actually retreated in many places in the winter of 1941 because the frozen roads meant the wehrmacht could advance again.

On the other hand, it's fairly easy to adapt to the cold temperature just by wearing a hat and gloves. Plenty of people living in Russia hate the cold, They're humans like everyone else. This is why i don't like factionwide climate bonuses, they really don't make sense. They're also pretty shallow.

 

[Ningauble]

it's fairly easy to adapt to the cold temperature just by wearing a hat and gloves

Napoleon's retreat from Moscow ?
Logistics, communications, movement, the welfare of the men and horses ..........
" General Winter " with good reason.

 

[five bucks]

Be glad they didn't sell the game based on hyping a trailer but worked on making a game that isn't released as a broken mess like Fallout 76 or No Man's Sky.

I mean Bannerlord may not be exactly as broken as those games, but many of its features are unimplemented or do not work. It's pretty messy in its own right.

People have understandable complaints about certain issues the game has, but I can still play the sandbox or campain for hundreds of hours with no major bugs, and relatively few minor ones. I have no performance issues on a less than amazing PC on fairly high settings, as well. The info in game is largely accurate, the controls reasonably smooth, the troops reasonably responsive to commands, etc. etc.

Anyone thinking this game is some sort of disaster or scandal is deluded or has very little experience with the gaming industry.

Well, why is a bug bad? Because a gameplay system doesn't end up working in a way that satisfies the player.

Bannerlord's half-baked mechanics may not be bugged (usually- I can name some prominent ones like policies or rain), but they are so badly implemented that they don't fulfill the effect for the player they're supposed to. And isn't that the same end result as being horrendously buggy?

 

[pRaX]

Money happened. Why even bother with effort if there are idiots like me paying up before getting the goods.

 

[Apocal]

Wouldn't people who live in the taiga be more comfortable campaigning and defending inside it?

Not necessarily. The Rus princes struggled to mobilize in dead-of-winter against the Mongols in 1241, resulting in each being isolated and defeated in turn, frequently with little to no warning.

Napoleon's retreat from Moscow ?
Logistics, communications, movement, the welfare of the men and horses ..........
" General Winter " with good reason.

The first leg of his winter retreat, from Moscow to Smolensk, was the worst part and cut his army of 100,000 in half. But prior to winter, from late June (invasion start) to September (Borodino), Napoleon's Grand Army lost 450,000 troops (out of 600,000 at the start line) to a massive typhus outbreak.

Kinda puts the whole "General Winter" thing in context...

It would be so cool if Sturgia had general winter on their side and had special advantages in the snow. Factions in general need to have things that make them unique. Maybe Aserai could get advantages in the desert and vice versa for other factions. I don't know there's so much that could be cool but just isn't right now.

Sturgia used to get a snow bonus that was outright overpowered. Their parties would be like 1.2 faster than everyone else from the same/similar starting point so it was legitimately dangerous to raid Sturgia in the winter. And the winter in Sturgia stuck around for like a good five months.

That was quickly nerfed, then removed entirely.

 

[Ningauble]

Not necessarily. The Rus princes struggled to mobilize in dead-of-winter against the Mongols in 1241, resulting in each being isolated and defeated in turn, frequently with little to no warning.


The first leg of his winter retreat, from Moscow to Smolensk, was the worst part and cut his army of 100,000 in half. But prior to winter, from late June (invasion start) to September (Borodino), Napoleon's Grand Army lost 450,000 troops (out of 600,000 at the start line) to a massive typhus outbreak.

Kinda puts the whole "General Winter" thing in context...

Sturgia used to get a snow bonus that was outright overpowered. Their parties would be like 1.2 faster than everyone else from the same/similar starting point so it was legitimately dangerous to raid Sturgia in the winter. And the winter in Sturgia stuck around for like a good five months.

That was quickly nerfed, then removed entirely.

General Typhus and General Winter.

 

[Rungsted93]

I don't understand why people give them so much credit for making such a complex game, you all are aware they did it once with the original M&B & Warband right? It's not like they had to come up with all this stuff again. And this time they had 100 employees, mods to draw inspiration from, and 10 years of development time. And yes it's obvious from the older videos that a lot of it was playable, faking such videos would be next to impossible and look way more janky.
Now the big question is what happened from 2015-2020? I think it's quite clear things were going nowhere and they couldn't decide what the final version should even be and ended up burned out just wanting to release, hence the decision to deliver the minimum viable product and see how it goes, and with millions of copies sold and a positive rating of 88% on Steam you bet the leadership are happy and see no big reason to fundamentally change stuff.
I'm of the belief that in an alternate universe it got a lot of negative backlash at EA release, making TW step up to not lose face resulting in a much better game

 

[Antaeus]

Why did they even switched to uniform colors for troops? It's eye bothering and immersion breaking.

Because using colour to identify friend from foe in a confused combat scenario is immersion breaking...

 

[froggyluv]

. And yes it's obvious from the older videos that a lot of it was playable, faking such videos would be next to impossible and look way more janky.

Im gonna have to play devils advocate here and disagree with the premise that Cutscenes and Trailers are harder than creating the actual gameplay. There are plenty of examples of games that had absolutely amazing Trailers with what looked like real gameplay that were actually nothing more than fluff -Ready or Not pre alpha comes to mind here. But similar to machinima, alot can be created to give the illusion the game is capable of things it totally isnt. Even if it is implemented it may be so expensive processor-wise that it could never hold up to the dynamic variable of the Player(s) changing the stage on the fly. Many games simply dont have the AI implemented at all during trailer phase but are able thru forced command have their entities play out advanced movie looking animations. Now obviously the animations need to be cooked in to an extent at this level -but it can and often does having gaping holes still in terms of actual gameplay

 

[stevepine]

It would be so cool if Sturgia had general winter on their side and had special advantages in the snow. Factions in general need to have things that make them unique. Maybe Aserai could get advantages in the desert and vice versa for other factions. I don't know there's so much that could be cool but just isn't right now.

Couldn't agree more.

But sadly it's Taleworlds, who have become a lazy, greedy and arrogant company. Anything good will be through mods now.

 

[Ichon]

Anyone thinking this game is some sort of disaster or scandal is deluded or has very little experience with the gaming industry.

Not many people calling it a disaster that are not merely ranting but I would say it is a bit of a disappointment.

I came back with the official launch and have spent about 12 hours in a sandbox campaign without mods just to see where the base game is at. There are more ways to play that game, roguery actually works though is much more difficult path than the traditional mercenary to vassal to king and most of the ways the game guides you to make money actually function if you use a bit of thought though I do think some of the complaints are for how little the game holds people's hands.

The other aspects that has vastly improved are the in battle commands and very little bugs- I've only experienced a couple screen locks that went away on reload, no CTD yet which is different than the EA state for sure.

However, the parts which still frustrate are how some aspects of combat work- spear/shield combo still seems exceptionally weak and throwing a dagger and a javelin are functionally the same in game.

Then the AI of mounted lancers is truly atrocious plus a lot of little gripes but the way the game handles various similar (but not the same) weapons and that even elite cavalry miss 90% of the time with their lances compared to swords hitting 50% of the time seems a big problem when over half the game is spent in fights for most players.

Diplomacy is also pretty weak- there are at least trade screens now but it is still 100% transactional other than relationship web but not sure why that couldn't be extended into diplomacy? Support the Heir of a rival Kingdom over the current King or give money to rebels, etc- so many things that TW talked about but still haven't done.

I can't quite make up my mind if I would ever buy a new TW game or DLC at this point, I was excited for Bannerlord and paid full price when EA came but... have played many games in the years since which have evolved almost to the point of being as open world sandbox as Bannerlord (not yet achieved but closing in) with higher production values.

 

[monoolho]

General Typhus and General Winter.

Fancy seeing you here, my good sir.

Pestilence has always been a detriment to armies, and seriously related to the vast majority of conlficts in history which involved smaller parties.
Lotsa men in a tight space generate all sorts of plagues... from cold sores to rotten feet to major defenestration to syphillis outbreaks. "Bored boys being bored" the old folks used to say...

Now im not gonna advocate for a plague system in the game, which could or could not work and be cool (it wouldnt, just a random way to lose elite troops), but inseriously agree with Kentucky that weather bonuses are lame and shallow. A very dumb way to show you're a geographical determinist at its finest. "Sure, my mum and dad done did it in the tundra, so im naturally born fit to tundra and will immediately die the moment i look at a sand dune, pleasure to meet you".

Now there should be minor bonuses, perhaps, to other features. I am a fair believer in the power of sistemic change: a dozen small features and changes that affect core gameplay can make it better than a couple of big bonuses for that one particular thing. And why i still like me bannerlord and its complex system, no matter how broken and barebones it may seem to the angriest of angeryboys out there.

 

[babelfisch]

And yes it's obvious from the older videos that a lot of it was playable, faking such videos would be next to impossible and look way more janky.

There is a difference between faking something and things not being functional.

If you see a video of a siege, how did that siege happen? What led to the assault on the campaign map? Does the campaign map even exist, and if yes, is the AI able to make independent decisions? Are all assets created, does the AI have path finding issues? Are all factions and characters fully implemented? What about the hundreds of different scenes?

I could ask you a few hundred more questions about features and you can't know if development of them even started just by looking at a battle in a castle.

I know there were various other videos but none of them showed a complete game and mechanics being fully implemented. Obviously that doesn't 'excuse' the long development time. I guess they just aren't the fastest developers on earth...

 

[danEN]

Because using colour to identify friend from foe in a confused combat scenario is immersion breaking...

modders are crazy man this looks so good

 

[vito397]

Because using colour to identify friend from foe in a confused combat scenario is immersion breaking...

This is the absolute worst argument for monochromatic clothes colouring ingame. You COULD make an argument that theres pros in sacrificing immersion for gameplay (distinguishing soldiers) that makes it worth it. But thousands of peasants in tyrian purple, the colour only the highest of byzantine royalty could afford for ceremonial cloaks, is just silly looking. And im not even talking about it being unrealistic, its just an eye sore

There should be faction colours present on maybe cloaks, tabards, some parts of tunics, banners and such. But not on t1- t4 troops

 

[Bluko88]

I believe the smithing "mini game" was added last minute but the crafting feature has always been there. Initially, items were crafted by the blacksmith for gold, as can be seen at 14:39 in the video below:



As far as I'm concerned, this feature really should have co-existed along with the smithing perk.

Yeah but mechanically it's all there, if the only thing they added was the Smithing Skill Tree itself that's ridiculous. The only difference in this footage is you pay for it. You the player are still selecting the parts and everything. Honestly it would have been better had they left as it was, where you pay for custom weapons. Makes no sense for a warlord to sit around making weapons, I mean what do your troops do while you spend days in the forge LOL? There's some real dishonesty among those touting M&B as this "medieval simulator". It's a warlord simulator is all. You can't be a diplomat, artisan, a farmer, heck not even Mayor despite there being "fiefs". I guess there's trade, but all you do is move goods around. You don't setup trade routes or anything, you buy low and hope to sell high.

Again not to put Warband on any kind of pedastal (I barely have 50 hours in it), but at least in Warband you had to have a good relation with the city merchants before you could setup shop.



Anyways it shouldn't have been that difficult to plug in Smithing, cause perks weren't even functional in March 2020. You make thing, it gives XP based on this.

Given how poorly balanced materials are (looking at Pugio Daggers for example) and that value is still largely determined by damage, I think simply paying for custom gear would have been a lot better. Potentially good use of money in the late game too.

Though that does beg the question what the third Endurance perk would have been otherwise....