Troop veterancy vs troop tier: An idle thought.

[SmattlePattle]

Good morning. Here again with another half baked thread as I drink my morning coffee.

I've been thinking about what unit "tiers" mean, and in my mind they represent two things: The experience of the troop, and the gear/status of the troop. After recruiting a unit with "Veteran" in the title by default from a village I thought this is a bit of a conflation for the sake of gameplay.

Do you think it would be interesting/fun if these were distinct things? What do I mean by that? Imagine the tier system exactly as it is now, you upgrade units all the same, BUT units that survive X number of battles become "veterans" and get very minor stat bonuses. Maybe 5 athletics here, or 5 to weapon skill there, nothing that would really tip the scales too much - or be undefeatable by a identical freshly recruited army using good tactics - but just a tiny boost that gives seasoned armies an edge and makes you a little more invested in them.

 

[OMGtechy]

I like the idea of splitting the two concepts out, yes. Depending on how it's done, this would allow for a few things:

• If you can't afford to buy new equipment for everyone, they still get better with what they've got without magically hitting a brick wall.
• If you're flush with money, you get another use for it - equip even the newbies with really good gear, just because you can.
• Hoards of ninja looters.

 

[Askorti]

I don't have a problem with veteran units being recruitable from villages. It just means that the guy I'm recruiting used to be a soldier before he settled down in that village, and now I'm just pressing him to service once more. It's not like 100% of people living in cities or villages have never been to war.

 

[SmattlePattle]

I don't have a problem with veteran units being recruitable from villages. It just means that the guy I'm recruiting used to be a soldier before he settled down in that village, and now I'm just pressing him to service once more. It's not like 100% of people living in cities or villages have never been to war.

I mean, fair enough, I don't really have an issue with that either, but that's not really my point here.

 

[ElCrisp]

Good morning. Here again with another half baked thread as I drink my morning coffee.

Sounds like a fun idea. I want to feel the sadness when my high veterancy tier 6 troop finally kicks the bucket. And root for my rising star tier 2 unit that has shown promise (veterancy) before their time.

 

[Tutui]

Good morning. Here again with another half baked thread as I drink my morning coffee.

I've been thinking about what unit "tiers" mean, and in my mind they represent two things: The experience of the troop, and the gear/status of the troop. After recruiting a unit with "Veteran" in the title by default from a village I thought this is a bit of a conflation for the sake of gameplay.

Do you think it would be interesting/fun if these were distinct things? What do I mean by that? Imagine the tier system exactly as it is now, you upgrade units all the same, BUT units that survive X number of battles become "veterans" and get very minor stat bonuses. Maybe 5 athletics here, or 5 to weapon skill there, nothing that would really tip the scales too much - or be undefeatable by a identical freshly recruited army using good tactics - but just a tiny boost that gives seasoned armies an edge and makes you a little more invested in them.

Looks nice.
Maybe promote a veteran to a companion too...

 

[Nystagmus]

That is one hell of an idea and one that doesn't seem to be in any way difficult to implement. I think if we would also have an alternative ways of training the troops (actual training grounds instead of throwing some untrained villagers against some random, hostile rubble) it would implement each other pefectly.

 

[SmattlePattle]

Looks nice.
Maybe promote a veteran to a companion too...

That would be so much fun, actually. Imagine say you have a T6 unit that's been with your army for a while, like a Bannerknight, Beserker, whatever, maybe you could pay a nice hefty sum of gold to "companionize" them. Its a singleplayer game so things don't need perfect balance, but I think if you made it take a while & cost a pretty penny it'd be limited enough.

I like features in M&B that enhance the natural/organic/emergent story-creation of the game.

 

[Icaurs]

Good morning. Here again with another half baked thread as I drink my morning coffee.

I've been thinking about what unit "tiers" mean, and in my mind they represent two things: The experience of the troop, and the gear/status of the troop. After recruiting a unit with "Veteran" in the title by default from a village I thought this is a bit of a conflation for the sake of gameplay.

Do you think it would be interesting/fun if these were distinct things? What do I mean by that? Imagine the tier system exactly as it is now, you upgrade units all the same, BUT units that survive X number of battles become "veterans" and get very minor stat bonuses. Maybe 5 athletics here, or 5 to weapon skill there, nothing that would really tip the scales too much - or be undefeatable by a identical freshly recruited army using good tactics - but just a tiny boost that gives seasoned armies an edge and makes you a little more invested in them.

I LOVE this idea, perhaps combine it with units needing to survive a certain amount of battles as well as kill a cetrain amount of troops so you cant get veteran units by just safely killing loads of looter stacks. With the right implementation this idea is amazing.

 

[Seeigel]

Thats kinda like the system from Freeman: Guerillia Warfare (at least how it is now)

There you buy your troop type (for example a militia) and he will always stay a militia, but he still levels his stats up. Ofc in Freeman you can change the equipment of every single soldier but you have to have that item or you buy the soldier with his complete equipment. This is very costly in the beginning but you could still buy a veteran soldier and just give him the loot you got.

 

[Icaurs]

ideally id still like the troops to be able to upgrade into different units too, but also have varying degrees of veterancy

 

[Stromming]

Thats kinda like the system from Freeman: Guerillia Warfare (at least how it is now)

There you buy your troop type (for example a militia) and he will always stay a militia, but he still levels his stats up. Ofc in Freeman you can change the equipment of every single soldier but you have to have that item or you buy the soldier with his complete equipment. This is very costly in the beginning but you could still buy a veteran soldier and just give him the loot you got.

Yeah FGW is a great game and Taleworlds could take some inspiration from the squad/army management system.

 

[Pejot]

OP great idea. I can see some blockers through. In current system you'll need to either upgrade them to veterans like you upgrade the tier or they would need to rework whole system. Currently troops are generated when battle is loading and this is based on their equipment pool defined in the file. Same troops have same skills and only equipment have a pool to choose.
If You want them to have different skills then another tier in the file is needed and You'll have to manually upgrade them to that tier.
For something like this to work differently You'll need to change whole system so every single soldier would be separate NPC with whole system of memorising how many battles they fought and completely new upgrading system. They will be more like companions then current troops. I can't see it happen on randomly generated units.

 

[Tutui]

OP great idea. I can see some blockers through. In current system you'll need to either upgrade them to veterans like you upgrade the tier or they would need to rework whole system. Currently troops are generated when battle is loading and this is based on their equipment pool defined in the file. Same troops have same skills and only equipment have a pool to choose.
If You want them to have different skills then another tier in the file is needed and You'll have to manually upgrade them to that tier.
For something like this to work differently You'll need to change whole system so every single soldier would be separate NPC with whole system of memorising how many battles they fought and completely new upgrading system. They will be more like companions then current troops. I can't see it happen on randomly generated units.

I think the game saves the number of battles inside the xp system

 

[Pejot]

I think the game saves the number of battles inside the xp system

XP is based on landed hits and kills achieved. And only one pool for all units of the same kind is there. SO there's no option to tell which of Your 50 recruits fought in 20 battles. If one soldier kills enemy and then dies xp gained by him still goes to the pool.