Need help with realistic difficulty

[Boozbaz]

I'm in the beginning of a campaign on realistic difficulty, no save-scumming, no mods, heroes are mortal. My first goal is to marry Liena. I've reached clan rank 2, joined Vlandians as a merc, and give her free money whenever I can to get my relationship level with her higher. Since I'm not performing any save scumming, I only get one chance to convince her to marry me, so I'm trying to get my odds as high as possible. If I fail with her, I'll just move onto another noblewoman. Besides, I'm planning on running my own kingdom and building positive relationships with as many nobles as possible will be helpful in the late game when I ask them to become my vassals.

However, I am getting destroyed in combat. The last playthrough I was on easy settings and using Aserai units - mostly the horse archers, and progressing through the game super easy. I don't want to have to travel back and forth to the desert to recruit Asera units, and even if I did, I'm not sure if they'd survive long enough to be helpful. So I've been using mostly what's nearby - Vlandian units. Training these guys has been difficult - they just keep dying before I have a sizable force. I actually just lost all of my troops and was captured by an enemy lord. So I'm rebuilding my army from the ground up again...with 2 or 3 recruits at a time per village.

Do you guys have any tips for training up a strong army while on realistic settings? Should I go for some particular troops? Remember, I'm trying to avoid travelling back and forth across the map to gather specific units, so if I go to the other side of Calradia to get something specific, I'm hoping they won't die after I bring them back to Vlandian territory.

 

[flavberg]

Get a lot of recruits and make them fight looters, it will XP them up nicely. I'd focus on getting equal parts of ranged and infantry, although as Vlandia, cavalry can be quite strong, crossbowmen too.

 

[Boozbaz]

Thanks for the advice. I started just focusing on looters and ignoring bandits. I found a strategy that helps a LOT with levelling recruits without too many of them dying:

First, I put the recruits into their own troop formation group. I set mine to #5, skirmishers if I recall correctly.
Then I find the largest pack of looters I can find. I don't care if they outnumber my recruits and would normally destroy them in a straight up battle, I take them on anyway.
At the start of the fight I tell my archers to hold fire (#2, then F4 IIRC). Then I tell recruits to charge. (#5, F1, F3)
Then I ride my horse ahead of the recruits and hold my shield up as I flank the looters.
I swoop around the side and the looters all throw their rocks. That significantly reduces their damage for when the recruits catch up.
I get close to the looters and they then ball up behind me and stay close to my horse. Looters run faster than recruits, and I can pull/kite a lot of them away from my recruits. Through careful kiting, I can let my recruits take on only a small trickle of looters at a time, easily letting them gain EXP without dying.

I don't level up the recruits until I can level up all of them at the same time.

I was looking at the game files at the different types of bandits, and it looks like Sea Raiders don't have ranged attacks or mounted units. I'm currently in sea-raider territory and will begin testing using them as EXP food for my army. They probably do tons of damage in melee combat, so they might be just useful for levelling ranged troops.

 

[Badcritter]

Sea raiders have javelins. Beware.

You are on the right track using yourself as a distraction to allow your troops to start leveling up on fodder.

I find Vlandians harder to get off the ground than most, because their infantry branch (which also leads to cavalry) takes 2 upgrades before they get a shield. Troops that get a shield, a bow/crossbow, or a horse on their first upgrade are the easiest to keep out of the meat grinder. You just need your level 2 Vlandian infantry to get to level 3 vs distracted looters before they are fit to take on anything else.

That said, a Vlandian swarm of recruits is my least favourite culture to personally fight against if I'm mounted, due to their long spears.

I'm an advocate of delaying leveling troops so they can all level together in specific circumstances (like the train 10 troops quest) but I don't necessarily recommend doing that with your own recruits, especially if you're not savescumming. You want better troops at your disposal sooner rather than later, so you can ensure you don't lose fights that you might have had the potential to win if you had upgraded as each opportunity became available. If a few recruits get left behind, struggle to level and die off over time, that's better than a party wipe. You can still break them out and use your more experienced troops to draw agro before sending your recruits in around the end of the shield line to flank if you want to keep giving them love to get stragglers off level 1.

If you want to pick up a stock of survivable troops from somewhere else that you don't need to replenish regularly, go for Khuzait horse archers. Ranged attack and cavalry at level 2, can't beat it for survivability.

 

[Boozbaz]

If a few recruits get left behind, struggle to level and die off over time, that's better than a party wipe.

That's the trick. I'm trying to develop enough skill and game knowledge to never have a party wipe. If I can manage that (and that is something I have control over), then I can earnestly level them up (albeit at a glacial pace) and then take them on to the next level of fighting without losing them. The only thing is that since I'm not save scumming - one mistake can be brutally punishing. I need to get better at knowing when and how to retreat, as well as knowing what I can feasibly take on with very few losses - but that takes time and experience with the troops I'm using.

You can still break them out and use your more experienced troops to draw agro before sending your recruits in around the end of the shield line to flank if you want to keep giving them love to get stragglers off level 1.

That's a good idea, and probably way more feasible once the party size reaches around 200. I am playing on realistic and if I take myself on a horse out there to draw attention away from the recruits, I very well could get taken out by ranged attacks. Thanks for the tip!

If you want to pick up a stock of survivable troops from somewhere else that you don't need to replenish regularly, go for Khuzait horse archers. Ranged attack and cavalry at level 2, can't beat it for survivability.

Also good advice, thank you. I was thinking of dipping back into the desert for the Aserai Marmaluke Heavy Cavalry (super versatile unit). But rather than fall on an old crutch, I think I'll just bite the bullet and learn how to go all out with what's available in the area I'm roaming around in. I might go try out those Khurzait horse archers if I lose my patience though haha

 

[Maximum997]

I might go try out those Khurzait horse archers if I lose my patience though haha

But beware of steppe bandits. They are scary as hell. You see 5 of them here, 7 of there here, then they unite and just chase you in 1 second.

 

[Beau Vine]

Levelling Vlandians and horse archers with 0-2 infantry (and no other) casualties vs 20-stacks of sea riders, on realistic:

1, F1-F4, or 1-F1 behind the enemy. F1-F3 vs sea raiders a forest bandits.
Wait for them to get a few paces away
2, F1-F4, F4 - vs forest bandits you don't have to hold fire, but for looters it's more efficient (more recruits get kills before looters rout), and for sea riders safer. F1-F3 vs sea raiders a forest bandits.
4, F1-F2 - take horsies on enemy left flank, additionally you can send cav to their right flank. Hold fire or not, depends on how high you've levelled your horse archers. If you've got no horse archers to level - even better. Ride in front of your infantry, shoot some arrows or just ride by them and start circling them - half will take the bait, shoot and chase you allowing infantry to get even closer. Dodging thrown projectiles is a useful skill. Change speed and direction.

As you see Sea Riders start raising their arms, 2-F4. Concentrated crossbowmen fire will force some of them to switch to their shields, those who do not - get to die first.

At this stage, if you've got cav to level up - send them in. You can change unit group in Party view by clicking little banner with roman numeral. It'll reverse to original groupings on load.
Especially important with Vlandians as Levy crossbowmen count as infantry by default. On the flipside - you can send them in with infantry, just double tap F4 - it'll force them to start shooting before optimal range - all you want is to force enemy reaction.

But Vlandians are horse hungry, Aserai have horses. Don't give up on those Mamelukes, they're wonderful for harder bandit lairs. But only do them when all companions are sent off - they'll default into your raid party.

 

[Razdv]

Don't aim to have a big numbers of troops from the start. It is better to provide all your men with horses (not mules and basic working horse you got from start) in your inventory, or you won't be able to chase bandits and lords. Always have excess of horses but not as much to get speed debuff (pack or cattle, i don't know how it named because playing Russian localisation mod)

 

[Boozbaz]

Don't give up on those Mamelukes, they're wonderful for harder bandit lairs.

Yes they are. They're very versatile

Thanks for all the detailed command advice. I noticed you said Sea Riders and not Sea Raiders. I didn't realize there was a difference.

 

[Beau Vine]

Yes they are. They're very versatile

Thanks for all the detailed command advice. I noticed you said Sea Riders and not Sea Raiders. I didn't realize there was a difference.

No difference, just bad spelling. Unless you give Sea Raider Chiefs to your companion, and then they'll eventually upgrade to Sturgian Druzhinniks, thus making them Sea Riders
The Disciplinarian perk seems to be inactive for players, but always active for companions. So with large enough advantage having bandits join you can produce some high tier units, although this seems like something that'll get patched out eventually.

 

[hruza]

Do you guys have any tips for training up a strong army while on realistic settings? Should I go for some particular troops? Remember, I'm trying to avoid travelling back and forth across the map to gather specific units, so if I go to the other side of Calradia to get something specific, I'm hoping they won't die after I bring them back to Vlandian territory.

Trying to keep units alive is pointless unless you are fighting just training battles with bandits. Just grab some guys, get them level or two so that they are actually not just canonfooder, join the army or follow lords on raids, participate in battles, bury looses and level survivor and recruit prisoners.

Prisoners are actually the most reliable source of the seasoned units. Also press left Alt when coming around enemy parties. it will show you if the carry some prisoners. You can sometimes get nice units from random looters or bandits.

As for fighting with non horse archer armies:

Try to go for 1:1:1 ratio of cavalry, infantry and archers. Cavalry can be 50% heavy and 50% skirmishers.

Place your archers in to spread line and put your infantry in to shield wall in front of them and to the right side. When enemy will engage them, your archers will be firing in to their unshielded side from the left. Try to swing your archers on the enemy flank once infantry lines clash.

Split your cavalry in two (F7) and place each on one flank. If you have 50% of the skirmishers, place then all in to the same group instead and put them on the right flank (they can't throw or fire to the right side) and melee cavalry to the left flank.

Before infantry clashes in melee, tell your cavalry to be led by their sergeants (F6) -that way skirmishers will be skirmishing and avoiding melee.

Don't keep your infantry in a static shieldwall, tell them to charge or delegate command to sergeants just before melee starts. Shieldwall is not good for fighting, as it makes soldiers inside the shieldwall passive.

Also if you first tell your infantry to shieldwall and then charge, they will still keep their shields up as if they were in the shieldwall, but now they will actively chase enemy. Works with cavalry too.