Lets have an actual, civil, class balance discussion.

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Aserai got **** shields and their infantry is just horrible. Khuzait dont have double spawn archers, which already takes them out. Sturgias cav is the least tanky one.

None of this matters when you can yeet yourself around the map at mach 15. Unsure what Khuzait archers being expensive has to do with which heavy cav is the best.

Vlandian cav > Mameluk

Atm vlandia has the best cavs, second best inf (after battania), and arguably best ranged (battania archer is really good as well)

Curios about why you think Vlandian cav is better. I agree they are probably second best but what makes you think they are better than aserai? I Agree about inf and archer

 

[Caps]

None of this matters when you can yeet yourself around the map at mach 15. Unsure what Khuzait archers being expensive has to do with which heavy cav is the best.

Because it takes out the whole faction. If they were 150g Khuzait would be probably better than vlandia or as good.

 

[Alyss]

Curios about why you think Vlandian cav is better. I agree they are probably second best but what makes you think they are better than aserai? I Agree about inf and archer

I believe Vlandian cav is better because of their armor, shield and perks, but also because of the two other classes. If we were only looking at cavs individually, I would probably agree that Aserai cav is better. However, I find that Vlandian cav performance on an actual skirmish is way better than Mameluk's. The best way to see it is on Vlandia vs Aserai skirmish. Aserai cav will get ****ed because of Vlandian xbow, while Vlandian cavs will be couching the archers easily.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Because it takes out the whole faction. If they were 150g Khuzait would be probably better than vlandia.

Khuzait isnt amazing right now yeah. I still think Lancer can completely carry. The main issue is how their inf are just a straight downgrade from other factions without them receiving anything to really compensate.

I believe Vlandian cav is better because of their armor, shield and perks, but also because of the two other classes. If we were only looking at cavs individually, I would probably agree that Aserai cav is better. However, I find that Vlandian cav performance on an actual skirmish is way better than Mameluk's. The best way to see it is on Vlandia vs Aserai skirmish. Aserai cav will get ****ed because of Vlandian xbow, while Vlandian cavs will be couching the archers easily.

This is completely fair. So you at least agree the Vlandian issue is with the Xbows and not their cav being incredible on their own, just by circumstance.

 

[Caps]

Khuzait isnt amazing right now yeah. I still think Lancer can completely carry. The main issue is how their inf are just a straight downgrade from other factions without them receiving anything to really compensate.

they got cav archers kekw,will see once map 13 releases its a cav map it seems

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

they got cav archers kekw,will see once map 13 releases its a cav map it seems

LOL yes. The Khuzait stand. [target practice for enemy archers]

 

[Alyss]

This is completely fair. So you at least agree the Vlandian issue is with the Xbows and not their cav being incredible on their own, just by circumstance.

Yes and no. Both cavs and xbow need a nerf. Without xbow, Vlandia would have no anti cav. xbow dmg should be reduced but I also think that cavs couches need to be fixed by adding a timer and a cooldown, and that the way the horse interact with people should be modified. (atm spears are pretty much useless against horses and ranged is the anti cav atm)

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Yes and no. Both cavs and xbow need a nerf. Without xbow, Vlandia would have no anti cav. xbow dmg should be reduced but I also think that cavs couches need to be fixed by adding a timer and a cooldown, and that the way the horse interact with people should be modified. (atm spears are pretty much useless against horses and ranged is the anti cav atm)

Yeah. I think we agree. I have the exact same issues with cav, but I consider them to be a game issue rather than a Vlandian issue. Compared to the other factions in the games current state, Vlandias disproportional strength largely comes from the way XBOW is balanced.

 

[Caps]

Yeah. I think we agree. I have the exact same issues with cav, but I consider them to be a game issue rather than a Vlandian issue. Compared to the other factions in the games current state, Vlandias disproportional strength largely comes from the way XBOW is balanced.

Imo its more about the overall roundness. Xbow strength in the current meta is just an extra. The question is more when will they actually fix the core gameplay issues first; like couching, cav kd, glances (or armor values) etc.

 

[KuroGuroChan]

Khuzeit Spearmen could have a bigger mace perk that can be 2 handed when you press X. this will help them for melee vs heavy armoured factions, atm that class is just tanky boiz waiting for their cav and archers do the job basically.

 

[Caps]

Khuzeit Spearmen could have a bigger mace perk that can be 2 handed when you press X. this will help them for melee vs heavy armoured factions, atm that class is just tanky boiz waiting for their cav and archers do the job basically.

like any other infantry in a nutshell

 

[KuroGuroChan]

like any other infantry in a nutshell

That's what they did to others indeed. Khuzeit spearmen were great af in beta when they had specialized 1 thrown spear which was short and great for melee aswell, but they removed it for no reason. Shame. But now they lack a lot in melee. Yes they have that small mace that is the only saving grace. Maybe instead of having a shield they can get that big mace, so less tankiness for dmg. But i am very biased i play mostly with 2 handed weapons classes with little resistance.

 

[Caps]

That's what they did to others indeed. Khuzeit spearmen were great af in beta when they had specialized 1 thrown spear which was short and great for melee aswell, but they removed it for no reason. Shame. But now they lack a lot in melee. Yes they have that small mace that is the only saving grace. Maybe instead of having a shield they can get that big mace, so less tankiness for dmg. But i am very biased i play mostly with 2 handed weapons classes with little resistance.

that would just make them worse lol, they could use heavier armor by default

 

[KuroGuroChan]

that would just make them worse lol, they could use heavier armor by default

How would that make them worse if it's just a choice of perks lol, if you want to be tanky stay tanky if you want to go more dmg you go that said perk with heavy mace. Jesus dude

 

[Caps]

How would that make them worse if it's just a choice of perks lol, if you want to be tanky stay tanky if you want to go more dmg you go that said perk with heavy mace. Jesus dude

it wouldnt fix anything except giving khuzait a shock inf, one that gets nearly outrun by archers aswell

 

[KuroGuroChan]

it wouldnt fix anything except giving khuzait a shock inf, one that gets nearly outrun by archers aswell

Exactly, that's what khuzeits lack in melee. As if archers were an issue to khuzeits lol, they lack melee, by design, but they need at least 1 shock troop even if it's their rabble.

 

[Caps]

Exactly, that's what khuzeits lack in melee. As if archers were an issue to khuzeits lol, they lack melee, by design, but they need at least 1 shock troop even if it's their rabble.

they lack archers, having better inf doesnt make them good

 

[KuroGuroChan]

they lack archers, having better inf doesnt make them good

Where do they lack archers lol are we talking about the same game here or what? They have the best cost effective entry archers and one of the best elite archers with great glaives, without talking about horsearchers and perk for Lancers, you are clearly playing a different game. Unless your logic comes from captain mode which I despise, my perspective comes only from real mp sieges/skirmish/deathmatch. What khuzeits lack is shock troops and fast dmg dealers in melee. Not ranged options.but close melee. And it's either rabble or spearmen reworked perks that can help that

 

[Caps]

Where do they lack archers lol are we talking about the same game here or what? They have the best cost effective entry archers and one of the best elite archers with great glaives, without talking about horsearchers and perk for Lancers, you are clearly playing a different game. Unless your logic comes from captain mode which I despise, my perspective comes only from real mp sieges/skirmish/deathmatch. What khuzeits lack is shock troops and fast dmg dealers in melee. Not ranged options.but close melee. And it's either rabble or spearmen reworked perks that can help that

the other heavy archers are 150g, not sure if you ever looked at the light archer option since you seem to be a sp player

 

[blackfang]

I have personally found that rabble combined with a spearman unit is actually as versatile as it gets due to the spearman anti cav, sure the formation won't beat two units of legionnaires, but the rabble is surprisingly competent with their maces and shields combined with the amount of them. The lowest tier troops of the other factions really can't compare. However, rabble is mostly reliant on having other units as backup, if they are alone, they will still do some damage, and could win over a legionnaire unit, however, unlike any other unit, their staying power is nonexistant, and once they start loosing, they loose hard, like not a single kill on the enemy hard, that is two legionnaire units attacking one formation of rabble, or two units of literally anything, they will just melt away. However, if they can force a one on one they are pretty good. They will still die in droves, but you can kill an entire enemy unit with them, also archers will melt in front of them in a one on one.