Lets have an actual, civil, class balance discussion.

[Ikea Knight]

I agree it would, but it does in Skirmish too, and their stated goal was every class available for everyone, so I wonder why they have one rule for the more casual modes and another for Skirmish.

As someone who spends a lot in Skirmish I'd love to disagree with you and say it's perfect but I can't.
Even though my clan usually limits itself to a max of two cavalry units, I am not all that sure it's clever. Even in Clan vs Clan matches with more coordination Cav can be pretty strong against spearmen.
But I want to give some reasons why having instant acces in Skirmish is a good thing:
-Limited lives. In TDM and Siege you always have the chance to grind up to a high tier unit as long as time is left. In Skirmish you hav a maximum of 3 lives per round. So playing or loosing a high tier unit is a lot more impactful.
-Snowballing. Snowballing is always an issue but when looking at how strong cavalry can be, it would be horrible to only give it to the already stronger players. Different to Siege and TDM a single player can be a lot more impactful.
-Team composition. With all units accesable you can always re-use your gameplan and strategy.

 

[JakobvanBicke]

Alright. Too many people whining about heavy cav here.
Don't get me wrong. The system isn't perfect. Everybody who claims that prolly doesn't get how balancing works.
But I think you're overreacting. Heavy cav isn't the only viable way to win. It certainly is strong and a 200 gold cost for every heavy cav would be smart, but even right now heavy cav is absolutely beatable.
If you think that heavy cav can't lose, I invite you to 6v6 me and my men. We can (and will) prove you wrong

 

[Caps]

Alright. Too many people whining about heavy cav here.
Don't get me wrong. The system isn't perfect. Everybody who claims that prolly doesn't get how balancing works.
But I think you're overreacting. Heavy cav isn't the only viable way to win. It certainly is strong and a 200 gold cost for every heavy cav would be smart, but even right now heavy cav is absolutely beatable.
If you think that heavy cav can't lose, I invite you to 6v6 me and my men. We can (and will) prove you wrong

Most people here wont even lose to you if they all dismount and fight you, no offense. The 200 cost is exactly what we are trying to achieve next to the combat fixes.

 

[Kripaz]

I invite you to 6v6 me and my men. We can (and will) prove you wrong

Really getting tired of these new clans trying to flex their muscles on every thread.
So please stop, you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Really getting tired of these new clans trying to flex their muscles on every thread.
So please stop, you are embarrassing yourself.

Yes thank you. This is a thread for discussion, not cringe humblebrags from NW regs

 

[Tork789]

This is a thread for discussion

It isn't really a discussion if you dismiss any opposing opinion as well as any attempts to establish common ground via empirical means(like a 6v6 match). What you participate in here is called an echo chamber.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

It isn't really a discussion if you dismiss any opposing opinion as well as any attempts to establish common ground via empirical means(like a 6v6 match). What you participate in here is called an echo chamber.

It cant possibly be an echo chamber when youve been here from the very beginning claiming the opposite of anything the competitive players say. It is obvious you are very fond of TW, and that is extremely ok. I am also very fond of TW. You need to realize that saying the game isnt balanced is not a direct attack on TWs integrity. Most of the people participating in this thread have been contributing to the balancing of the game all the way since alpha. If TW did not want or value our opinions we would not have been invited in the first place.

 

[Kripaz]

It isn't really a discussion if you dismiss any opposing opinion as well as any attempts to establish common ground via empirical means(like a 6v6 match)

Well you are right, but to be honest skilled clan will win always. But let's be real, majority doesn't want to belong to a clan and when it comes to team rando1 vs team rando2 heavy cav will dominate the field.

 

[Tork789]

It cant possibly be an echo chamber when youve been here from the very beginning claiming the opposite of anything the competitive players say

Echo chamber doesn't have to be absolutely absent of opposing opinions. All it requires is a situation in which beliefs are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition inside a closed system. You aren't open to arguments, you aren't willing to engage in empirical tests, you don't want statistics, all you do is repeating the same opinion over and over again in hopes that if you say it long, hard and many times enough it becomes truth.

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

Alright. Too many people whining about heavy cav here.
Don't get me wrong. The system isn't perfect. Everybody who claims that prolly doesn't get how balancing works.
But I think you're overreacting. Heavy cav isn't the only viable way to win. It certainly is strong and a 200 gold cost for every heavy cav would be smart, but even right now heavy cav is absolutely beatable.
If you think that heavy cav can't lose, I invite you to 6v6 me and my men. We can (and will) prove you wrong

It's tempting just for the fun of it but at the same time it's a complete pain in the ass to organise 6v6 since you have to leave several games until you find each other.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Echo chamber doesn't have to be absolutely absent of opposing opinions. All it requires is a situation in which beliefs are amplified or reinforced by communication and repetition inside a closed system. You aren't open to arguments, you aren't willing to engage in empirical tests, you don't want statistics, all you do is repeating the same opinion over and over again in hopes that if you say it long, hard and many times enough it becomes truth.

Weve had a ton of 6v6 tests already. How do you think we have come to the conclusion that Heavy Cav is OP? We didnt just sit around in a zoom meeting and decide to hate on a random aspect of the game for no reason.

If you want a statistic Ill give you one. I am currently 1900/200 in skirmish. Playing exclusively heavy cav. Anyone who played warband will readily tell you I am not a 9.0 K-D cav player. I was quite below average at it. Even in pubs. Its broken right now. Plain and simple.

 

[Tork789]

If you want a statistic Ill give you one. I am currently 1900/200 in skirmish. Playing exclusively heavy cav. Anyone who played warband will readily tell you I am not a 9.0 K-D cav player. I was quite below average at it. Even in pubs. Its broken right now. Plain and simple.

There's so much wrong with that I'm not even willing to begin unraveling it.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

There's so much wrong with that I'm not even willing to begin unraveling it.

Thats my point. It needs to be fixed.

 

[Klausolus]

It isn't really a discussion if you dismiss any opposing opinion as well as any attempts to establish common ground via empirical means(like a 6v6 match). What you participate in here is called an echo chamber.

A single match between two clans would have little validity and taking the results as reliable empirical data would be a joke.

 

[Tork789]

Thats my point. It needs to be fixed.

Get yourself fixed then I guess.

A single match between two clans would have little validity and taking the results as reliable empirical data would be a joke.

No one said we should stop on one match, we should strive to get as much data as possible - that's been my point since forever. Getting 1 match done is certainly better than participating in echo chamber.

 

[sethja8]

Weve had a ton of 6v6 tests already. How do you think we have come to the conclusion that Heavy Cav is OP? We didnt just sit around in a zoom meeting and decide to hate on a random aspect of the game for no reason.

If you want a statistic Ill give you one. I am currently 1900/200 in skirmish. Playing exclusively heavy cav. Anyone who played warband will readily tell you I am not a 9.0 K-D cav player. I was quite below average at it. Even in pubs. Its broken right now. Plain and simple.

here's my pitch

heavy cav is boosted at the moment because it feels like the devs have balanced around the current map selection list - a lot of the maps currently are pretty rough for cavalry to move around, so the devs decided to overtune their stats (due to their own internal playtests or whatnot) to fix that issue, regardless if they intended it or not

armor values on horses and riders need adjustments, bucking into walls should be more punished like in warband, light cavalry needs some more reason to be played (no, not bow or ranged cavalry, keep that in the dust please), there should be more reasonable methods (and availability) for players to have long pointy sticks to say "no, heavy cavalry, not today". currently my most effective method of taking out heavy horses is chucking a throwable into the horse's head and hoping it works out or jump-slashing with a two handed weapon to just attack the rider and it feels a little silly

 

[Caps]

here's my pitch

heavy cav is boosted at the moment because it feels like the devs have balanced around the current map selection list - a lot of the maps currently are pretty rough for cavalry to move around, so the devs decided to overtune their stats (due to their own internal playtests or whatnot) to fix that issue, regardless if they intended it or not

armor values on horses and riders need adjustments, bucking into walls should be more punished like in warband, light cavalry needs some more reason to be played (no, not bow or ranged cavalry, keep that in the dust please), there should be more reasonable methods (and availability) for players to have long pointy sticks to say "no, heavy cavalry, not today". currently my most effective method of taking out heavy horses is chucking a throwable into the horse's head and hoping it works out or jump-slashing with a two handed weapon to just attack the rider and it feels a little silly

the maps are pretty different all 3 of them, xauna is small but hardly any safespots (if you exclude glitches), trading post is super open, and the town map has some somewhat anti couch, elevated zones but thats it otherwise its a cav map aswell

still hopeing they remake sandi it was my favorite map

 

[TheBard]

NW player flexing their muscles again... Speaking of toxicity, prime example there.

 

[origomar]

1. Two handed weapons across the board are overpowered. they swing too fast for doing more damage and having longer reach than one handed weapons.
2. throwing spears are ****ing useless.
3. crossbows are inferior to bows in almost all ways
4. bows do too little damage on headshots.
5. horses are fine in captains mode because of lack of unit size, not fine in deathmatch but I'm not sure if deathmatch is even attempting to be balanced.


Overall : Hitting someone in the head with a throwing spear or crossbow should always kill them. hitting them in the head with a bow should kill them almost every time. randomly swinging around two handed weapons is far too rewarding and hard to stop because almost all one handed weapons are ****ty.

Also I'm mostly talking about captains mode and deathmatch. I understand in skirmish it might be different with two handed weapons but for ranged weapons i don really see how.

 

[Caps]

1. Two handed weapons across the board are overpowered. they swing too fast for doing more damage and having longer reach than one handed weapons.
2. throwing spears are ****ing useless.
3. crossbows are inferior to bows in almost all ways
4. bows do too little damage on headshots.
5. horses are fine in captains mode because of lack of unit size, not fine in deathmatch but I'm not sure if deathmatch is even attempting to be balanced.


Overall : Hitting someone in the head with a throwing spear or crossbow should always kill them. hitting them in the head with a bow should kill them almost every time. randomly swinging around two handed weapons is far too rewarding and hard to stop because almost all one handed weapons are ****ty.

Also I'm mostly talking about captains mode and deathmatch. I understand in skirmish it might be different with two handed weapons but for ranged weapons i don really see how.

wat did i just read