New economy changes are very good for the long-term health of the game, disregard the criticism.

[Androme1]

I just wanted to express my support for the recent economy changes, specifically the changes regarding the previously overpowered caravans. Many people will complain because they have grown accustomed to easy money through caravans and some specific workshops.

What people have to understand is that these passive sources of income were never meant to allow you to breeze through the rest of the game, they are only meant to cover your party upkeep costs. After that, if you want to afford something else, say some of the most expensive pieces of equipment in the game, then you need other sources of income, such as loot from lords or perhaps acquiring fiefs and collecting tax.

These additional non-passive sources of income are meant to go straight into your pocket after the daily upkeep/income changes. And then two things can happen:
1) Your enterprises (caravans and workshops) are doing well, with no hiccups.
2) One or more of your caravans could've been defeated by bandits, or maybe one or more of your workshops could've been taken over by a faction your faction is currently at war with.
If 2) happens, then you need to re-invest into said enterprises with the money you've been gathering from elsewhere. But if 1) happens, then you can safely purchase that new piece of equipment you've been saving up for.

Not everything is meant to be risk-free, every playthrough is not meant to be identical, earning money is not meant to be garantueed. You need to plan ahead, you need to save money, and you need to be prepared for multiple eventualities, and not just dead set on the fact that you'll always continue amassing wealth.

FAQ:
- But the most broken form of income was from defeating enemy lords!
Yes, this has been mentioned to be on TW's radar and will be fixed.
- But I don't know what to do now!
Lower the difficulty.
- The game is supposed to be about fun! Not about grinding!
Hard is fun, easy is boring.

_______
Edit: I'd like to make a suggestion regarding when Caravans are caught and destroyed.
Instead of having to purchase a new one, instead make it so that the Caravan and whoever was leading it, is out of commission for a week or two, and then after that starts working again, during this week or two you'll still be paying their wages, but atleast you won't have to spend 18k on a new caravan. I think that'd be a good middle-ground here.

 

[Nokturnel]

Fix all the perks first, then worry about the economy. It's very cart before the horse to adjust the economy when not every core feature is even implemented yet. Most Trade skill perks don't even work yet but they're already trying to balance the economy? Diplomacy is incredibly bare bones. Fiefs are also starving incredibly too quickly as well. Instantly running out of food the very second a siege is started and Prosperity shouldn't have a negative effect on food production. (Definitely increase food storage)

Once all the core features are in place, then worry about balancing the economy, if you keep trying to balance the economy before everything is added then you're going to have to re-adjust the economy every single time something new is added which is a waste of time.

 

[Androme1]

Fix all the perks first, then worry about the economy. It's very cart before the horse to adjust the economy when not every core feature is even implemented yet. Most Trade skill perks don't even work yet but they're already trying to balance the economy? Diplomacy is incredibly bare bones. Fiefs are also starving incredibly too quickly as well. Instantly running out of food the very second a siege is started and Prosperity shouldn't have a negative effect on food production. (Definitely increase food storage)

Once all the core features are in place, then worry about balancing the economy, until then you're just going to have to re-adjust the economy every single time something new is added.

I think they're just trying to tackle some issues which are easier to fix, before moving on to some things which require more time and resources, such as building up perks from the ground up. It's clearly not an issue of them "just not working", but of simply not having been developed at all yet.

 

[Wehveechen]

- The game is supposed to be about fun! Not about grinding!
Hard is fun, easy is boring.

If I want to grind, I'll play games specifically made for grinding. Grinding isn't hard. It's tedious and frustrating. Hard is when you need to make smart decisions, show good timing and overall keep a clear head on what strategy you pursue. I don't see how these changes contribute anything to that.

 

[junh0207]

Once all the core features are in place, then worry about balancing the economy, until then you're just going to have to re-adjust the economy every single time something new is added.

Totally agree with this, there are many non-functioning core elements and lacking features and Devs are working on the economy system instead of fixing them.

 

[Androme1]

If I want to grind, I'll play games specifically made for grinding. Grinding isn't hard. It's tedious and frustrating. Hard is when you need to make smart decisions, show good timing and overall keep a clear head on what strategy you pursue. I don't see how these changes contribute anything to that.

The game is about many things, sometimes grinding included. For example, acquiring renown is precisely that: Grinding. Same with money, although it can be achieved through multiple methods, it's still a "grind" of sorts. Same with experience, same with troop experience.
This game is to some degree about grinding. Now, I'm not saying everything should be super grindy, but clearly income needed to be nerfed.

 

[Askorti]

What people have to understand is that these passive sources of income were never meant to allow you to breeze through the rest of the game, they are only meant to cover your party upkeep costs.

Too bad that now caravans dont even cover their own investment cost, much less anything else...

 

[Androme1]

Totally agree with this, there are many non-functioning core elements and lacking features and Devs are working on the economy system instead of fixing them.

The economy is clearly a very core aspect of Bannerlord, it doesn't just interact with the player, it interacts with every single party in the world and it affects lords capabilities to recruit, etc. .

 

[SmattlePattle]

Well, the economic changes with the towns absolutely are broken, that's why they're hotfixing them lol, so lets not play in denial about that.

As for Caravans?
I've said it in every thread and I'll say it here:

Things need to provide gameplay choices and playstyle options. A random chance to lose a caravan that reduces its annual profit average is not a good feature. You still have assured passive income - its just reduced/interrupted.

There are different ways to make something hard. Hard where you just do repetition and there are RNG mechanics that you can't meaningful interact with is really bad hard. Hard that comes from having to use skill, judgement, and commit to a strategy/approach is good hard.

All risk needs to be risk you can interact with. Random chance to lose things, when you have no choice about being conservative versus a risk taker, isn't fun or interesting or meaningfully challenging.

You say you need to plan ahead, but for what? An RNG mechanic. No. I can only plan for things I can meaningfully interact with. That's where posts like this miss the mark: We don't want an easy game, we want a skill testing game - not a patience/chance testing game.

 

[junh0207]

The economy is clearly a very core aspect of Mount & Blade, it doesn't just interact with the player, it interacts with every single party in the world and it affects lords capabilities to recruit, etc. .

Yes it is a core element. But at least it wasn't causing many problems before the patch like broken perks and dialogue system.

 

[Androme1]

Yes it is a core element. But at least it wasn't causing many problems before the patch like broken perks and dialogue system.

It clearly was causing alot of problems: It made the player overpowered, being one of them.

 

[imgran]

Hard is fun, easy is boring.

This is not "hard." "Hard" can be overcome with skill and preparation. If you could set your own caravan balance with expensive cavalry to make sure it's fast enough to avoid bandits, the you can talk about "hard." The word for this kind of random setback you have no control over and no ability to mitigate is not "hard." It's "tiresome."

 

[imgran]

It clearly was causing alot of problems: It made the player overpowered, being one of them.

It really didn't. Caravans were not the reason you were making ungodly amounts of money in that game unless you really overinvested in them. For that you need to look at loot and the selling thereof.

 

[Androme1]

-Snip-

When I wrote that people need to think ahead, I was thinking about what they should spend their money on, I should've been more clear regarding this. An example is that when you've just invested in a caravan and two workshops, and you're sitting at 10k denars, and you see a piece of very attractive equipment that costs 9k denars, while your party upkeep is around 500 a day. Do you purchase that piece of equipment or not? I'm willing to bet the vast majority of players prior to the patch, would purchase that piece of equipment because there were no risks whatsoever.

Now, however, after the patch, there's alot of risk involved in making the same decision. It could still pay off, your caravan might not be attacked, but the odds of it being attacked and defeated is bigger now.

 

[junh0207]

It clearly was causing alot of problems: It made the player overpowered, being one of them.

Players have tons of money because they have NOTHING to spend on. At least AI lords at the late game ask for an incredible amount of denars to change their faction.

 

[Androme1]

It really didn't. Caravans were not the reason you were making ungodly amounts of money in that game unless you really overinvested in them. For that you need to look at loot and the selling thereof.

Please see the FAQ

 

[Nokturnel]

You

You say you need to plan ahead, but for what? An RNG mechanic. No. I can only plan for things I can meaningfully interact with. That's where posts like this miss the mark: We don't want an easy game, we want a skill testing game - not a patience/chance testing game.

No one wants an easy game, they just want the devs to get their priorities straight. Economy can be fixed later once all the core features are implemented. Like hell, you know Party Companion AI is so bad right now they'll dismiss troops you give them randomly for no reason while hiring looters? They also can't upgrade troops at all and upgrading the troops for them is buggy as when you take all their troops from them, it won't show you exactly how many can be upgraded without having to trade back and forth a couple times. You can't even give your party members any commands yet beyond join my army. They need to be able to be sent to recruit soldiers on their own, you should be able to give them money/food, you should be able to trade prisoners with them. There's so much MIA right now that economy shouldn't be a priority right now and yes, the people working on the economy could be working on something more important. The exact same skillset for altering numbers for the economy could be used, for instance, in fixing Fiefs so they don't instantly run out of food the instant a siege starts.

 

[imgran]

You know what would have been a much better fix for nerfing caravans? M A K E C A V A L R Y M O R E E X P E N S I V E.

 

[Kwakx]

Too bad that now caravans dont even cover their own investment cost, much less anything else...

I started a new game after public release of 1.1.0 I focused mainly on trade and there is no problem to gain money form caravanas. Day 636 and it looks like this:

 

[imgran]

I started a new game after public release of 1.1.0 I focused mainly on trade and there is no problem to gain money form caravanas. Day 636 and it looks like this:

Lovely, so what you're saying is it broke the ecomony and didn't even accomplish its stated objective. WTG devs!