Have Cavalry use less valued War Horse/Horse for upgrade.... PLEASE.

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razrdrasch

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Just lost 2 tournament war horse.
Upgrade light cavalry into whatever the next tier is. took that instead of my imperial charger.
It's like common sense don't exist.
*insert baffled emojis*
 
I agree. Even with imperial chargers being taken it's hard to get war horses and it effectively makes these units much more expensive to upgrade than any other unit.
 
IMO they should dump the horse requirement, just make it cost a lot more gold to upgrade them.

Like, when you upgrade your troops in the middle of a desert, you don't need to have a hundred spare swords or suits of armor lying around for them. Why do you need spare horses??
 
if you lock specific type of horses they are not used in upgrading units
so lock any horses types that you want keep and left the cheapest one unlocked
there is also mod on nexus that choose cheapest horse for upgrade
 
i agree with the increased costs instead of horses. if better horses improved stats then this would make sense.
there is also a distinction between war horses and regular horses. hate it when lower upgrade uses up my war horses and i need to find more later
 
IMO they should dump the horse requirement, just make it cost a lot more gold to upgrade them.

Like, when you upgrade your troops in the middle of a desert, you don't need to have a hundred spare swords or suits of armor lying around for them. Why do you need spare horses??
Nah horse requirment is step in good irection.
We should also need basic/regular/elite weapon/armor sets to pgrade troops
 
Nah horse requirment is step in good irection.
We should also need basic/regular/elite weapon/armor sets to pgrade troops
And where do you draw the line? "Oh my battanian warriors have upgraded to elite battanian warriors and used up my elite armor units - which i'd reserved for my vladian knights to use - but they're savages all running around bare chested!"
And if you don't make upgrades consistent across empires (as my facetious example above does) then you get massive economic imbalances.

Unlike horses, which are a primary resource, equipment would need to be a secondary resource - and so should be produced by cities or workshops as part of the economic simulation (if its not using the economic simulation to be produced ... what is even the point in having it? So It would have to use the Econ sim).

This will rapidly lead to snowballing if any one empire can take one extra city and increase their equipment supply non-linearly which will have big price swings, or more snowballing if its units don't need more expensive armor types to upgrade and be more effective. This goes against what the last string of patches have tried to avoid, making that a bad idea for empire balance. In scientific terms this would be called a cascading (or cascade-prone) simulation, when a complex system breaks down due to a simple change (one city/node changing hands and shocking equipment supply leading to a crash/imbalance, and/or snowball in this case).

There's also something to be said for coding the AI to actually gather these things up to upgrade their own troops (do AIs even upgrade troops?) otherwise in late-game their effectiveness will fall off sharply vs the player.

If they can upgrade, I actually wonder if the horse requirement is part of the reason why the Aserai (which have some great horse units) routinely get stomped in every game I've played, like are their generals carrying enough horses around to upgrade properly?
 
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It still makes little sense that a random highwayman takes my prized tournament horse which I can't still ride because I'm not at 90 riding yet.

When this happened to me the first time, I though "hum. This is absurd". All of your "named" or "won" equipment should be locked by default.
 
It still makes little sense that a random highwayman takes my prized tournament horse which I can't still ride because I'm not at 90 riding yet.

When this happened to me the first time, I though "hum. This is absurd". All of your "named" or "won" equipment should be locked by default.

I agree with this, these horses should be in their own cathegory and not be used to upgrade.
 
IMO they should dump the horse requirement, just make it cost a lot more gold to upgrade them.

Like, when you upgrade your troops in the middle of a desert, you don't need to have a hundred spare swords or suits of armor lying around for them. Why do you need spare horses??

Would be fun if they change it xD
 
And where do you draw the line? "Oh my battanian warriors have upgraded to elite battanian warriors and used up my elite armor units - which i'd reserved for my vladian knights to use - but they're savages all running around bare chested!"
And if you don't make upgrades consistent across empires (as my facetious example above does) then you get massive economic imbalances.

Unlike horses, which are a primary resource, equipment would need to be a secondary resource - and so should be produced by cities or workshops as part of the economic simulation (if its not using the economic simulation to be produced ... what is even the point in having it? So It would have to use the Econ sim).

This will rapidly lead to snowballing if any one empire can take one extra city and increase their equipment supply non-linearly which will have big price swings, or more snowballing if its units don't need more expensive armor types to upgrade and be more effective. This goes against what the last string of patches have tried to avoid, making that a bad idea for empire balance. In scientific terms this would be called a cascading (or cascade-prone) simulation, when a complex system breaks down due to a simple change (one city/node changing hands and shocking equipment supply leading to a crash/imbalance, and/or snowball in this case).

There's also something to be said for coding the AI to actually gather these things up to upgrade their own troops (do AIs even upgrade troops?) otherwise in late-game their effectiveness will fall off sharply vs the player.

If they can upgrade, I actually wonder if the horse requirement is part of the reason why the Aserai (which have some great horse units) routinely get stomped in every game I've played, like are their generals carrying enough horses around to upgrade properly?
I like this guy. "Where do we draw the line?" Exactly. Someone says something then someones "that too!" then "nah this one!" It's hard making games lol
 
It still makes little sense that a random highwayman takes my prized tournament horse which I can't still ride because I'm not at 90 riding yet.

When this happened to me the first time, I though "hum. This is absurd". All of your "named" or "won" equipment should be locked by default.
As said you can lock them and they should not be used for upgrades. Also in the end, unless it is your first playthrough, you know that upgrading uses horses and that you need to be careful about it. As another workaround you can hire a companion whose riding skill often will be sufficient and lock the horse this way. I get that it is annoying, but it is avoidable.
A steppe warhorse is purchaseable for 500+ and the units using them are T4 and upwards, hence I think the cost is justified.
 
As said you can lock them and they should not be used for upgrades. Also in the end, unless it is your first playthrough, you know that upgrading uses horses and that you need to be careful about it. As another workaround you can hire a companion whose riding skill often will be sufficient and lock the horse this way. I get that it is annoying, but it is avoidable.

Come on, it's my first playthrough, I win my first horse trophy, and then it magically vanishes because some cataphract needed it more than me? Don't you think this is a bad engagement loop?

It's not annoying, it feels like a broken thing within the game. Things I win in tournaments shoult not be used up by unit upgrades, especially when nowhere does it say that I can lock it so that it doesn't happen.

You can shrug it off as "whoff, learn the game!", but this is already a game which doesn't tell you jackpot about how anything works. Adding another thing to the pile, when it's as avoidable as "lock any items the player wins in tournaments", doesn't seem like good game design, does it?
 
I kinda like the system as it is. Yeah, I'd like to be able to lock a specific horse saving for myself - agree with that bit. But overall the "need spare horses to create/upgrade cav" idea makes sense to me. Especially since there's no wage difference between same-tier cav and foot. I'd much rather pay a one-time upfront cost (in the form of a horse) than the ongoing maintenance in daily wages.
 
I like the system fine as is. By the time I have a need to mass cavalry money is no longer an issue for me. And even if that was the case, it encourages players to be cautious with their units and not toss them into the meatgrinder. Besides, I found the heavy cavalry dominance of Warband very tiresome, and would rather see Cavalry remain powerful, but difficult to amass to overwhelming numbers. As it stands, the system isn't perfect, but it functions.

Being able to select what horses they use to upgrade would be fine by me though, even if it had no practical effect on their performance.
 
Just lost 2 tournament war horse.
Upgrade light cavalry into whatever the next tier is. took that instead of my imperial charger.
It's like common sense don't exist.
*insert baffled emojis*
I like the way it's made. The only thing that I don't understand is why when I upgrade a Vigla recruit to an Imperial Equite and I spend a regular horse and then Veteran Horseman or whatever is called and requires a War Horse I don't get the regular horse back. Did they eat the horse?
 
I like the way it's made. The only thing that I don't understand is why when I upgrade a Vigla recruit to an Imperial Equite and I spend a regular horse and then Veteran Horseman or whatever is called and requires a War Horse I don't get the regular horse back. Did they eat the horse?

It's like your first car, you crash it while learning to drive then you get a lot of experience from that event (able to level up) but... you do need a new car afterwards :grin:
 
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