The realism of battles in Last of the Mohicans...

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The deaths are too quick, the soldiers at the beginning are thrown too hard by the bullets, but make up for it later by simply slumping, and the fencing is a little over-the-top, but as far as hollywood goes, it's fairly good, to my untrained eye.
 
I don't think they are thrwn too far for being hit by a Brown Bess of that time (or the french equivalent thats name escapes me right now). I've actually worked out the fight scene from #2 before, lots of fun. One of my favorite movies, nothing like the book, but it keeps with history pretty well. Daniel Day-Lewis actually lived in his clothes and carried his weapons at all times during the shoot and got to the point that he was actually able to reload while running.
 
The muskets are far too ineffective. Smoothbore muskets aren't rifles, but troops were expected to be able to hit a target at 200 yards. There's quite a few points where the indians are running past a line at under 50 yards, yet emerging unscathed from a volley. Try that in real life and you'd be so full of lead you'd need a health warning.
The  ambush itself is pretty badly planned. You don't ambush a column at the side with infantry (particularly skirmishers), since a simple 90 degree turn transforms it from a column into a nice big firing line. In this case though they can claim poetic licence (it's far more cinematic)

brasidus said:
I don't think they are thrwn too far for being hit by a Brown Bess of that time
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At the kind of close range they're fighting the Bess was capable of removing limbs. Of course, I suspect the actor's union would have issues if they tried that one :lol:
 
Archonsod said:
The  ambush itself is pretty badly planned. You don't ambush a column at the side with infantry (particularly skirmishers), since a simple 90 degree turn transforms it from a column into a nice big firing line. In this case though they can claim poetic licence (it's far more cinematic)
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The native americans didn't have cavalry, did they?

Edit: I mean native americans like the ones depicted in the movie, not plains tribes.
 
brasidus said:
I don't think they are thrwn too far for being hit by a Brown Bess of that time (or the french equivalent thats name escapes me right now). I've actually worked out the fight scene from #2 before, lots of fun. One of my favorite movies, nothing like the book, but it keeps with history pretty well. Daniel Day-Lewis actually lived in his clothes and carried his weapons at all times during the shoot and got to the point that he was actually able to reload while running.
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My bad.  I just took a single pass at the video, and thought that the soldiers going flying at the start of the ambush were because of the impact, not because of the instantantaneous deaths of the soldiers.
 
13 Spider Bloody Chain said:
The native americans didn't have cavalry, did they?

Edit: I mean native americans like the ones depicted in the movie, not plains tribes.
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The Huron? Not as far as I know. Infantry ambushes always hit the front or rear of the column though; minimises the guns pointing at you and (with luck) you'll already be in melee before they can properly form a firing line.
 
I believe there are accounts of the actuall Ft. William Henry massacre that state it came from the sides. All account say the indians were inebriated which would effect thier planning, and most say the French actually risked thier lives to try and stop it.

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1175.html
 
dualmuskets.jpg

Akimbo musket kill!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SoeDAPj6gg
Pretty fuggin realistic if you ask me  :lol:
 
Some bits seemed really to me, and I'm no historian. I mean, at the beginning of the second movie some Huron walks pretty much straight into the Brits and kills two before he's even noticed... are they marching with their eyes closed or something? And later on some guys who I expected to be blown to bits simply stood in the wake of the volley that should've torn them up. And, of course, that chief guy cutting the heart out of the British commander... the fool must've been ridiculously certain of his victory to take the time to do that. I did like the way the British commander fought, though. :lol:

 
brasidus said:
I believe there are accounts of the actuall Ft. William Henry massacre that state it came from the sides. All account say the indians were inebriated which would effect thier planning, and most say the French actually risked thier lives to try and stop it.
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It also seems they fell upon civilians rather than the troops though.
 
FrisianDude said:
Some bits seemed really to me, and I'm no historian. I mean, at the beginning of the second movie some Huron walks pretty much straight into the Brits and kills two before he's even noticed... are they marching with their eyes closed or something?
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Maybe the troopers were bored and zoned out from marching all day long?

And, of course, that chief guy cutting the heart out of the British commander... the fool must've been ridiculously certain of his victory to take the time to do that.
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That was more of a thing for the character(s) than a real part of the fight scene. The Native American "commander" (Magua) absolutely hated Lt. Colonel Munro (the British guy who got his heart cut out) because Munro had commanded a British raid on Magua's village, killing Magua's children and wife. Since Magua hated Munro so much, he was willing to risk danger in combat (and perhaps even the ambush) in order to take vengeance.
 
FrisianDude said:
Some bits seemed really to me, and I'm no historian. I mean, at the beginning of the second movie some Huron walks pretty much straight into the Brits and kills two before he's even noticed... are they marching with their eyes closed or something?
Click to expand...

The Huron who kills the soldiers is actually their own scout, so naturally they wouldn't be inclined to react until he actually attacked them. 

The scene taken out of context would appear strange, but what was happening was that the Huron (Magua) was a scout for the British soldiers, and was planning on attacking them once they were in position of the ambushing Hurons.  Magua was a Trojan horse of sorts.  They noticed him, but were not expecting to be killed by their own scout.   
 
Barry_bon_Loyale said:
The scene taken out of context would appear strange, but what was happening was that the Huron (Magua) was a scout for the British soldiers, and was planning on attacking them once they were in position of the ambushing Hurons.  Magua was a Trojan horse of sorts.  They noticed him, but were not expecting to be killed by their own scout. 
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He's talking about the second movie clip, where the large group of Brits are attacked by a Huron war party. A handful of impetuous Hurons run up and stab some Brits and Americans, and no one else in the column seems to do much about it until the ambush begins full on.
 
13 Spider Bloody Chain said:
He's talking about the second movie clip, where the large group of Brits are attacked by a Huron war party.
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I see. 

That is sort of strange watching it.

"Say, I think one of those Hurons is butchering people with an axe."
"Hmm?  Sorry, I was miles away."
"Do you think maybe, we should, fire at him or something?"
"I wouldn't worry about it.  There's only two of them.  They'll get bored eventually and go home." 
 
Handful? Two? I thought it was just one at first. It also sounded as if he was clubbing people, but axing sounds more logical.

13 Spider Bloody Chain said:
That was more of a thing for the character(s) than a real part of the fight scene. The Native American "commander" (Magua) absolutely hated Lt. Colonel Munro (the British guy who got his heart cut out) because Munro had commanded a British raid on Magua's village, killing Magua's children and wife. Since Magua hated Munro so much, he was willing to risk danger in combat (and perhaps even the ambush) in order to take vengeance.
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Oh.. aha. I couldn't gather that from the scene, it seemed simply bloodlust and a try to impress his warriors.
 
13 Spider Bloody Chain said:
That was more of a thing for the character(s) than a real part of the fight scene. The Native American "commander" (Magua) absolutely hated Lt. Colonel Munro (the British guy who got his heart cut out) because Munro had commanded a British raid on Magua's village, killing Magua's children and wife. Since Magua hated Munro so much, he was willing to risk danger in combat (and perhaps even the ambush) in order to take vengeance.
Click to expand...
Nothing like the book indeed.  :shock: I haven't actually read the real thing or watched the movie in full, but I've read children's and comic versions (which complemented each other on the parts that were cut). Magua had a grudge on Munro because he punished him for getting drunk. Since he was a Huron chief this was humiliating. The ending of the movie is also unexpected, since they switch deaths around. For the movie, they added romance/sexual tension between Hawkeye and the elder Munro daughter; in the book Hawkeye had a more "badass uncle", Chuck Norris vibe.
 
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