Your thoughts on freedom of voting and the uneducated masses

[Merentha]

The probability of that is .5^99 999, though.  Good luck.

I'm torn between arrogant elitism and liberal ethics.  Everyone above a certain age and demonstrating social responsibility (on a basic level, ie, no felons) should get to vote, but they should vote the way I want them to. 

 

[Cirdan]

You can't help some people. They refuse to be educated.

You might be able to do it by getting lots of small groups of people to vote for their representative, the representatives gather into a group and elect one of their own as a 'higher' representative and so on until you got the overall leader.
While everyone would have a say, it would stop people from voting for a leader they know nothing about.

That's known as "democratic centralism". Look at how that turned out...

 

[Ursca]

Meh, there's always a weak link.
You can't have perfect politics until you have perfect people, and once you have perfect people you don't need politics anymore. 

 

[Mage246]

The probability of that is .5^99 999, though.  Good luck.

I'm torn between arrogant elitism and liberal ethics.  Everyone above a certain age and demonstrating social responsibility (on a basic level, ie, no felons) should get to vote, but they should vote the way I want them to. 

The thing about coin tossing is that each toss is independent of the previous tosses. So you have the same chance of tossing 2 heads and then two tails as you do of tossing 4 heads in a row or 4 tails in a row or 1 heads then 1 tails then 1 heads then 1 tails. The reason why there is a better chance of the result coming up 50/50 is because there is only a single probability associated with getting 100% of 1 result whereas there are many that would give you a 50/50 result. The 50/50 result is therefore the most common but far from the only option. Non-100% options will come up quite frequently, like 75/25, 60/40, 55/45, etc. The closer you get to 50/50 the more common these results will be. I guess my point is that what I posted earlier was not technically correct, but nevertheless in random voting you would not expect a 50/50 deadlock but instead you would expect one side to have an edge in the voting simply due to the fact that there even though 50/50 results are the most common there are far more non-50/50 results which would naturally give one side or another the advantage.

 

[NikkTheTrick]

The 50/50 result is therefore the most common but far from the only option. Non-100% options will come up quite frequently, like 75/25, 60/40, 55/45, etc.

In case of millions of tosses, 60/40 becomes EXTREMELY unprobable:
http://stattrek.com/Tables/Binomial.aspx
In case of 400 or less successes out of 1000 trials with 0.5 probability: 1.36423207803301E-10
In case of 4000 or less successes out of 10000 trials with 0.5 probability: 8.7021582061344E-90

In case of millions, the applet cannot calculate due to extremely low values invloved.

 

[Myn Donos]

Anyone without a degree shouldn't be allowed to vote. The majority of people are too stupid to make an informed political decision, that's why Bush is in power.

So the guy whos working out in the sun all day, the soldier who hasnt gone to college yet, or the poor person who is going to be a ditch-digger his whole life just because he couldnt afford to go to college should be allowed to vote because he or she is "uneducated"? sounds like someone is full of himself.

 

[Ingolifs]

So the guy whos working out in the sun all day, the soldier who hasnt gone to college yet, or the poor person who is going to be a ditch-digger his whole life just because he couldnt afford to go to college should be allowed to vote because he or she is "uneducated"?

Exactly. You've got it in a nutshell.

 

[Merentha]

While we're on the subject, what do you think of Heinlein's government as expressed in Starship Troopers?

 

[ShadeSlayer]

Those who control the media control the electorate. It's pretty much that
simple.

Wrong, those who control the oil (least for the States) controls everything else. The media and the people are all in the pockets of the oil companies.

 

[Hack McSlash]

Those who control the media control the electorate. It's pretty much that
simple.

Wrong, those who control the oil (least for the States) controls everything else. The media and the people are all in the pockets of the oil companies.

Thats almost as bad as the "jewish conspiracy" theory about the media that you hear from antisemitics.

 

[ShadeSlayer]

Hey, the truth hurts.

Oil companies control the government, thats why gas is 3 bucks a gallon and its going up when barrel costs are dropping....

 

[Merentha]

Hey, the truth hurts.

Oil companies control the government, thats why gas is 3 bucks a gallon and its going up when barrel costs are dropping....

  You know we had a huge discussion about how the only reason gas prices are down to 3/gal is because the government subsidise the oil companies, right?  Its much higher in Europe, unless you think they're all run by the oil companies too.

 

[ShadeSlayer]

  You know we had a huge discussion about how the only reason gas prices are down to 3/gal is because the government subsidise the oil companies, right?  Its much higher in Europe, unless you think they're all run by the oil companies too.

Well i did say "least for the States"....

Still, if you honestly think gas will stay at 3 bucks, youre terribly wrong. Theres no reason for it except capitalism is deeply entrenched in American society that we cant possibly deprive CEOs of billions of dollars. Europe may be more expensive, but at least you guys dont pay CEOs hundred million dollar (euro w/e) salaries for no reason...

 

[Merentha]

I'm from the United States, just so you can get your basic facts straight.

Edit: That said, I cannot wait for gas prices to rise.  Hopefully it will encourage innovation, rather than stagnation.  I also honestly do not believe that oil companies control the government.  I find them, and all lobbies, very influential, but the politicians have the ability to bollucks things up for themselves. 

 

[ShadeSlayer]

Sorry 

 

[calandale]

  You know we had a huge discussion about how the only reason gas prices are down to 3/gal is because the government subsidise the oil companies, right?  Its much higher in Europe, unless you think they're all run by the oil companies too.

Well i did say "least for the States"....

Still, if you honestly think gas will stay at 3 bucks, youre terribly wrong. Theres no reason for it except capitalism is deeply entrenched in American society that we cant possibly deprive CEOs of billions of dollars. Europe may be more expensive, but at least you guys dont pay CEOs hundred million dollar (euro w/e) salaries for no reason...

They're learning http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/06/15/business/pay.php

 

[ShadeSlayer]

We do have that affect on everyone else. Look at most of the world's constitutions

 

[Samurai DD]

If you were a legislator in a modern, developed country with a government system similar to that of the US, UK, France, Germany, etc. (the "free nations"), how much of the government would you let the uneducated masses control?

None. Benevolent socialist dictatorship by the most moral and intelligent is the way to go.

 

[Hræfn]

None. Benevolent socialist dictatorship by the most moral and intelligent is the way to go.

Agreed, but making that work is unlikely; power corrupts.

 

[Samurai DD]

Agreed, but making that work is unlikely; power corrupts.

Works better than this fake democracy even in the worst of cases.