Yeah flaming admins is a great way to get your point across . First and last warning to people wanting to be dicks. Keep posting this dribble and you won't be allowed back.
If you have constructive criticism by all means say it. Everything is read and we appreciate it.
Yeah flaming admins is a great way to get your point across . First and last warning to people wanting to be dicks. Keep posting this dribble and you won't be allowed back.
If you have constructive criticism by all means say it. Everything is read and we appreciate it.
I don't see how I flamed anyone. I suggested removing a certain admin, which I didn't do in a flaming way at all. After that I suggested creating proper rules, because right now about a fourth of the rules used in the tournament are complete trash.
What are you going to do to stop me? "Won't be allowed back"? You administrate a tournament, not a forum.
Okay. The draft system is confusing, overly-complicated and unnecessary. I understand alot of effort went into this and I see why something like the draft system was thought to be of use. But truth be told, nobody wants to go through all of that effort to just get 1 damn player that isn't 'officially' in there clan to play for them after the deadline for roster submissions has ended. It's just too much hassle and the entire draft system will have been for nothing.
All of these confusing, over-the-top set of rules:
- There will be a draft before the start of the tournament.
- The draft is to be held a week after the deadline for team submissions.
- The draft pool will consist of those who wish to join the tournament but do not have a team.
- The draft is to be held a day before the tournament start.
- There will be a lottery to decide which teams get which pick.
- A team can offer to purchase a draft pick from another team using credits.
- After the draft any players wishing to join the tournament will be placed in free agency.
- Free Agency is for players who wish to enter the tourney after it has started. The players who enter free agency can be picked up by a team.
- A panel will judge each player in free agency under a letter ranking system to determine the player's worth in points.
- Any team can sign said player provided they have the points to do so.
- Each team is given the same amount of credits at the team submission deadline.
- Trades can be done bilaterally or trilaterally between either two or three teams that wish to trade one of the players.
- Trade negotiations may be done privately or publicly.
- However once the deal is finalized amongst the teams, they will need the approval of the admin team to have the trade go through. This is to ensure that team stacking does not occur.
- The players being traded will be valuated privately.
- A team that is getting players worth more than two and a half times what the other team would get will have its trade rejected.
- However, the admin team accepts the reality that while players may inhabit the same letter in the letter ranking system. In reality the skills between the players involved may be vastly different. Thus the rule below.
Could be replaced by these three simple rules used in the ECS and most other European tournaments:
(1) Any player who has not yet played in a ECS match may join a team at any time. However, once a player has played for one team they may not play for another team during this ECS WPL.
(2) Transfers may be requested by unplayed players themselves or the captain of their new team with confirmation from the player or the captain of their old team.
(3) Any player not yet on a roster may be added to a roster at any time by the team captain, with confirmation from the player. Once a player is listed on one roster that player may not be listed on another roster for the duration of the ECS WPL.
It's alot less complicated & harder to get wrong. Aswell as the fact it's alot less work for the admin team. Plus, these three rules do work with next-to-no issues as it's practically the same 3 rules used in every EU tourney.
Could be replaced by these three simple rules used in the ECS and most other European tournaments:
(1) Any player who has not yet played in a ECS match may join a team at any time. However, once a player has played for one team they may not play for another team during this ECS WPL.
(2) Transfers may be requested by unplayed players themselves or the captain of their new team with confirmation from the player or the captain of their old team.
(3) Any player not yet on a roster may be added to a roster at any time by the team captain, with confirmation from the player. Once a player is listed on one roster that player may not be listed on another roster for the duration of the ECS WPL.
It's alot less complicated & harder to get wrong. Aswell as the fact it's alot less work for the admin team. Plus, these three rules do work with next-to-no issues as it's practically the same 3 rules used in every EU tourney.
I think 1 and 3 there are contradictory - didn't we sort that out for the ECS?
Basically you have decide whether being on one team's roster prohibits a player from moving to another team or actually playing in a match prohibits a player moving to another team. We went with 'playing in a match' for the ECS so that players who found out they would be always benched could try another team. If you prohibited players from moving rosters at all it would cut the work for admins, but so would insisting that team captains used proper formatting to request changes.
My opinion on roster caps is that they make teams less likely to remain in a tournament and result in stagnation of the competitive player base. All the reasons given for having roster caps have better solutions.
1) Retroactively enforce the roster exception rule. Some teams received an exception that shouldn't have.
2) Allow teams that legitimately took an exception to ignore the hold on team additions and removals. Teams should not be precluded from the ability to add their own clan members. (Assuming we have abandoned any effort to hold teams to 16 members).
3) Only allow teams receiving an exception to add players who were in the clan prior to the close of team registration. This prevents teams from abusing the system by temporarily "joining" a clan.
Now I sit and wait to see the people who didn't read/ignored the rules and abused the system to come complain and call Zaffa an idiot and community killer
As much as you may hate Zaffa, he actually reads the rules, and you lost this fight by entering this arena whilst leaving your equipment at the entrance.
Unless you can convince the admins to remove the roster caps of course.
I suggest just defining the rules more clearly, and I also read the rules thread that rule about rosters and registration was never there. Lastly all I really know is I cleared my roster with Hani before I posted, so if I'm told I have to cut 7 guys, il be thoroughly pissed.
Could be replaced by these three simple rules used in the ECS and most other European tournaments:
(1) Any player who has not yet played in a ECS match may join a team at any time. However, once a player has played for one team they may not play for another team during this ECS WPL.
(2) Transfers may be requested by unplayed players themselves or the captain of their new team with confirmation from the player or the captain of their old team.
(3) Any player not yet on a roster may be added to a roster at any time by the team captain, with confirmation from the player. Once a player is listed on one roster that player may not be listed on another roster for the duration of the ECS WPL.
It's alot less complicated & harder to get wrong. Aswell as the fact it's alot less work for the admin team. Plus, these three rules do work with next-to-no issues as it's practically the same 3 rules used in every EU tourney.
I think 1 and 3 there are contradictory - didn't we sort that out for the ECS?
Basically you have decide whether being on one team's roster prohibits a player from moving to another team or actually playing in a match prohibits a player moving to another team. We went with 'playing in a match' for the ECS so that players who found out they would be always benched could try another team. If you prohibited players from moving rosters at all it would cut the work for admins, but so would insisting that team captains used proper formatting to request changes.
My opinion on roster caps is that they make teams less likely to remain in a tournament and result in stagnation of the competitive player base. All the reasons given for having roster caps have better solutions.
SUGGESTION:
Remove the clan restrictions. The whole point of the tournament, as preached to me by several admins and people who think they're admins like lagstro and zaffa, is competition and teams, not clans. Why should teams be restricted by a tag? Thats not competitive. Clans are just made for fun. When it comes to SERIOUS WARBAND, teams shouldn't be restricted by who we just like to have fun with.
NEXT SUGGESTION:
After the clan restrictions are removed, just place all those players in the "draft" and have all the teams agree to draft the people they were gonna put on their roster anyway. That way Hani thinks it worked and we play who we wanted.
NEW RULE INFO!!!!!!!!!!!
I was just informed that players who do not wish to go to the draft are allowed to bypass it and become a free agent (This info comes from ARYS THE GOD). Free Agents can be added to a team that has less than 16 players (the same teams that are allowed to use the draft). Teams with 16 players or with an 'exception list' cannot pick up free agents. So there's another useless mechanic of the tournament that's effectively the exact same thing as the draft. SUGGESTION: Stop adding rules for fun and start thinking about them.
Right I had to see my dad off, so I was out this morning but I can now post.
The way the tournament was originally envisioned was that we would give teams a certain period of time between the tournament start date and team submission deadline to allow them to make a team with no exceptions, except of course the roster cap. That meant anything would go, and we gave in the case of this tournament a months grace period for teams to make any team that they wished. After that the tournament would start a week after the team submission deadline, and the rosters would be "locked" until then with the exception of the draft that would be placed a day before the tournaments start. After that the Free Agency portion would begin. Players who have no team or who are left over from the draft would be placed or announced that they were free. They would be rated by a panel and then be placed on the block so to speak so that teams could pick them up. I've now noted, and will speak to the team, about allowing that if multiple teams bid for the same person a bidding war can go on with no cap. That would make Free Agency more interesting. Everything was clear and concise.
Then the whole roster cap issue cap issue came about.
The whole issue as voiced was that there were clans that had more than 16 players, and they wanted to play with their clan mates because they were close and what not. We could have stuck to our guns, because others and I wanted to foster an E-Sports tournaments in the vein of CS:GO and Smite and Dota and LoL. To create the setting stone for Bannerlord so that when Bannerlord came out the pieces would be set in place. However, we understand that there needed to be a transition of sorts. So I came up with the roster exception form for -clans-. Because these teams advocated for the right of people like Beowulf who was in the clan for a very long period of time, but who was inactive to be on their roster etcetera etcetera. There were other arguments in the similar vein but all ended with "I don't want to eclude people of my clan." At the same time however, I didn't want to alienate teams that couldn't use this argument. They would doth protest "If they can, why can't I!" So in my post concerning the roster exception form I made it clear that this was for clans, and that there could be no mercenaries in the roster because it defeated the purpose of why you teams wanted it, and gave the teams affected an unfair advantage. They would also of course be barred from using FA and the Draft because it would neuter that as well. If people want to see my post in question it is in the WPL thread.
So you can imagine my annoyance, and I admit that I may have been peeved as well, when I saw this issue come up.
Clockwise admitted to me that while he had read my post on the roster exception form he hadn't really read it for 2 weeks or so when I spoke to him. The people of DoF, like DoF, had posed questions concerning the roster exception post so I know they had read it as well. I also admit to having had uneasiness about people exploiting the roster excpetion form, and I now feel in a sense betrayed because when I posted this it was because I was told the teams affected wanted to play with the members they had and not cut people. Now I am seeing mercs pop up, and people using the exception form for this.
In conclusion.
I'll have to look at the team substitution and removal page to see who fell afoul/infracted and i'll be posting an announcement concerning what changes will be affected. The affected players will be given the choice of entering the draft or waiting till FA to announce their entry. If they announce FA, then they can be picked up by the team they were originally picked up by easily as long as they are below the 16 player roster cap and don't have the roster exception form. For those teams with the roster exception form one of the stipulations was that they were barred from the FA and Draft Pool.
Closing thoughts:
I am disappointed that this was re-made into an issue, and I hope this ends this discussion. It's not going to change so it's not worth trying currently. With the tournament starting in 3 days this should have been a non-issue to begin with. As for TSC, pizza. TSC has been entered as one clan for the past 2-3 tournaments in a row, they have their own joint ts, and their members hang out together and do normal scrims together. They are in essence one clan, and I see them as such as do others. A better example would be TSR which asked for an exception as is their right to my verdict regarding the new team Silence is Golden. I made that exception because it would be better to have GK half participate than not participate whatsoever, and he was level with me. On the issue of Fiery I made no verdict, however, I said I would be inclined to accept the removal of Beowulf to add him, but it would cost me a headache as people will (Inevitably) complain. OGL has asked me to allow him to add 5 more people to his roster making it a total of 18. He say's it is important because due to his team being full of EU's it is needed to field a full team consistently late at night. He say's this is the last time, and as he is being -extremely- nice to the North American captains who insist on scrimming at NA normal times ( I assume), I am not above granting this exception. I'll speak to Arys, and the rest hopefully as well, but I see no issues with it.
Edit: X I actually wonder whether you think before you speak. It doesn't seem like you do.
Two Quick Questions:
How does stopping people from playing with the teams they want create a more competitive environment?
Why are you the one who determine's who's in TMW? If Clockwise and Rurin say someone's in TMW, what gave you the power to contradict that?
(Also, thats not how the word doth works...)
EDIT:
It was just pointed out to me by a member of my skype group that the rules never actually say you cannot draft into your exception list. IN FACT, the whole exception list isn't in the rules. How are we supposed to know what the rules are when they aren't in the rules thread?
Just trying to show that its really difficult for admins to be hiding behind all these "THE RULES THE RULES" arguments when the rules aren't clearly stated. Like. Hani posts something and says its a rule. Then arys comes on my skype and says its not a rule and he's gonna talk to Hani. None of it gets posted in the rules thread. If you look in the warbants thread, you'll see a conversation with Hani and warpath where warpath asks Hani to quote the rule about team submission deadlines and Hani says he can't quote it. I think I'm pointing out a clear problem.
Okay. The draft system is confusing, overly-complicated and unnecessary. I understand alot of effort went into this and I see why something like the draft system was thought to be of use. But truth be told, nobody wants to go through all of that effort to just get 1 damn player that isn't 'officially' in there clan to play for them after the deadline for roster submissions has ended. It's just too much hassle and the entire draft system will have been for nothing.
All of these confusing, over-the-top set of rules:
- There will be a draft before the start of the tournament.
- The draft is to be held a week after the deadline for team submissions.
- The draft pool will consist of those who wish to join the tournament but do not have a team.
- The draft is to be held a day before the tournament start.
- There will be a lottery to decide which teams get which pick.
- A team can offer to purchase a draft pick from another team using credits.
- After the draft any players wishing to join the tournament will be placed in free agency.
- Free Agency is for players who wish to enter the tourney after it has started. The players who enter free agency can be picked up by a team.
- A panel will judge each player in free agency under a letter ranking system to determine the player's worth in points.
- Any team can sign said player provided they have the points to do so.
- Each team is given the same amount of credits at the team submission deadline.
- Trades can be done bilaterally or trilaterally between either two or three teams that wish to trade one of the players.
- Trade negotiations may be done privately or publicly.
- However once the deal is finalized amongst the teams, they will need the approval of the admin team to have the trade go through. This is to ensure that team stacking does not occur.
- The players being traded will be valuated privately.
- A team that is getting players worth more than two and a half times what the other team would get will have its trade rejected.
- However, the admin team accepts the reality that while players may inhabit the same letter in the letter ranking system. In reality the skills between the players involved may be vastly different. Thus the rule below.
Could be replaced by these three simple rules used in the ECS and most other European tournaments:
(1) Any player who has not yet played in a ECS match may join a team at any time. However, once a player has played for one team they may not play for another team during this ECS WPL.
(2) Transfers may be requested by unplayed players themselves or the captain of their new team with confirmation from the player or the captain of their old team.
(3) Any player not yet on a roster may be added to a roster at any time by the team captain, with confirmation from the player. Once a player is listed on one roster that player may not be listed on another roster for the duration of the ECS WPL.
It's alot less complicated & harder to get wrong. Aswell as the fact it's alot less work for the admin team. Plus, these three rules do work with next-to-no issues as it's practically the same 3 rules used in every EU tourney.
No yea, you're right, the whole exception list form and rules should definitely be here now that this tournament has it's on board... but at the same time... your team clearly saw the post with the form and its rules... so trying to act like it never existed and you never saw the rules isn't really an argument that you can actually expect to cover for your failure to circumvent this extremely easy system to circumvent
TBH, I would love to see Kel and Troubadour on your team, it would make it that much more entertaining to fight you... but... rules are rules, and they should be followed... and if they aren't going to be enforced, then they should just be removed entirely.
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. First and last warning to people wanting to be dicks. Keep posting this dribble and you won't be allowed back. 
