Woolwich Attack - Soldier Dead

[Kobrag]

Ignore the facts, focus on the lastest word while ignoring the explanation of the source of militancy for islamist followers.
Good call.

Facts? You just cherry the worst pick **** and use it as a byall-endall means to label millions of people worthy of chastisement via pogrom. :/

$

Quote where i said "label for chastisement or genocide".
Stop trying to depict people disagreeing with views as reborn waffen-SS and focus on facts, actual analysis of the religious text.

The text also contains the life and history of Jesus (Isa) and the teachings he spread.
They are even bound by religious law to give to charity and to not put interest on loans (usury).
Not really a book of absolute evil. Read the bloody book instead of reposting regurgitated cherry-picked nonsense.=/

 

[pentagathus]

Aldric provide facts that bavarians arent the worst people on the planet plox.

Apparently they make pretty good beer.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

They don't.

 

[Aldric]

Muslims in the West are quick to point to passages such as Qur’an 109:6 (“You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion”) and 2:256 (“There is no compulsion in religion”) as evidence that Islam is a religion of peace. When confronted with harsher passages such as 9:5 (“Slay the idolaters wherever you find them”) and 9:29 (“Fight those who believe not in Allah”), Westernized Muslims interpret these verses in light of the more peaceful teachings of the Qur’an, typically saying something like: “Well, the Qur’an can’t be commanding us to kill unbelievers, since it says that there’s no compulsion in religion.”

Hence, Westernized Muslims pick the verses of the Qur’an they find most attractive, and they use these verses to sanitize the rest of the Qur’an. But is this the correct way to interpret the Qur’an? Unfortunately, the answer is no. The Qur’an presents its own method of interpretation—the Doctrine of Abrogation.

    Qur’an 2:106—Whatever verse we shall abrogate, or cause [thee] to forget, we will bring a better than it, or one like unto it. Dost thou not know that God is almighty?

    Qur’an 16:101—When We substitute one revelation for another—and God knows best what He reveals (in stages)—they say, “Thou art but a forger”: but most of them understand not.


According to the Qur’an, then, when Muslims are faced with conflicting commands, they aren’t supposed to pick the one they like best. Rather, they are to go to history and see which verse was revealed last. Whichever verse came last is said to abrogate (or cancel) earlier revelations.

What happens when we apply this methodology to Qur’anic verses on peace and violence?

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways.  Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence.  Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny.  Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed.  Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

Historically, call for peace are during the phase 1 of Muhammad's conquest. They are abrogated during defensive (Phase 2 ) and offensive ( phase 3 ) Jihad during his late life.

I have read extensive part of the bloody book as you said.

 

[pentagathus]

Fair doos. The only bavarian beer I've had was actually brewed in holland. And it was non alcoholic. It was pretty good though.

 

[Selothi]

I quite like bavarian beer actually. Got well pissed a fair few times off it.

While the Weissbiers are a bit bland, the darker ones (Hesse-Weissbiers ? Can't remember and my German has gone to ****) can be absolutely lovely. And high alcohol content, woohoo !

That said, the Belgians make some of the best beer on the continent, and mass produce it at that. Few things finger than a Leffe. But nobody beats the Brits when it comes to ales, and we like it that way. Why, I had a pint of something called "Cornish Knocker" just the other day. A lovely, tasty pale ale.

 

[Auldman]

**** off you prick. I am clearly not a racist. Yes I am against mixed race relationships, because I want to preserve BOTH races. **** off you dickhead.

@Mage, no I hate Breivik, he killed innocent people.

Speak out against multiculturalism and I get called a racist, how ******** grand.

But you clearly admire Sir Oswald Mosley and his British Union of Fascists just to go by your avatar and signature. Going to be an uphill fight then on your part to convince anyone who is rational that you're not a far-right fellow traveler yourself.

There isn't really anyone alive on  this planet whose ancestry is free of ethnic mixture and anyone who thinks they're in anyway "pure" is sort of delusional. If you think you're waging some sort of battle against "race mixing" (not inclined to even get into the argument of whether holding a notion of race is absurd in of itself) well that battle was lost a long, long, long time before you were even born. 

 

[Mage246]

@Lascivo

You're racist because you speak out against race-mixing. It's not rocket science. You want to keep your silly race "pure" of the "taint" of other races. Racist by definition.

 

[Kobrag]

At least the thread seems to be winding down.

 

[Selothi]

bring back the beer conversation plox

 

[Kobrag]

Ummm...I like Otter bright and Exmoor gold.
Hobgoblin is a great one for all occasions.

 

[Connzcdf]

In my opinion I think that they were on drugs, and wanted to be martyrs.
Sorry if that view has been stated, just got back from exams.

 

[Kobrag]

They'd have to be popping something (despite it being disallowed by religious law).
One does not go out for a drive, run down a random someone you suspect to be a soldier and hack him to bits on a whim whilst using your normal range of faculties.

 

[Aldric]

He was even speaking incoherent speech about peace and freedom probably under drugs and alcohol.

Speaking with a London accent, holding a knife and a meat cleaver and with his hands dripping with blood, he said: “We swear by almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone. Your people will never be safe. The only reason we have done this is because Muslims are dying by British soldiers every day.

We must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our lands our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don’t care about you. Do you think David Cameron is going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? Do you think your politicians are going to die?

“No, it’s going to be the average guy like you, and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring our troops back so we, so you can all live in peace.”

The women who spoke about him was probably day dreaming too.

She said: “I started to talk to him and I started to notice more weapons and the guy behind him with more weapons as well. By then, people had started to gather around. So I thought OK, I should keep him talking to me before he noticed everything around him.

“He was not high, he was not on drugs, he was not an alcoholic or drunk, he was just distressed, upset. He was in full control of his decisions and ready to everything he wanted to do.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10073910/Woolwich-attack-terrorist-proclaimed-an-eye-for-an-eye-after-attack.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10074881/Mum-talked-down-Woolwich-terrorists-who-told-her-We-want-to-start-a-war-in-London-tonight.html

Accept the fact. A military died from a militant of a religious and political ideology.

 

[Connzcdf]

One thing I was a bit iffy about is that the man who stated that the UK should displace the government, and declaring we were killing men out in his homeland, had a British chav accent.

 

[Duke Daniel Milutin]

lol wasn't he beheaded?

Nothing strange here, if a country declares war then people on both sides die, English and Americans think they can kill anyone without being killed themselves.

@Lascivo

You're racist because you speak out against race-mixing. It's not rocket science. You want to keep your silly race "pure" of the "taint" of other races. Racist by definition.

It's not racist to not prefer race-mixing, if anything you are racist yourself for calling the white race silly.

 

[WuTaNiSt]

And just to put the icing on the cake, another paragon of reason, restraint & critical thought has arrived in the thread.

 

[Mage246]

And what, pray tell, is objectionable about race mixing? This could be fun.

 

[Duke Daniel Milutin]

The different culture and values, I would prefer a woman that speak the same language as me and behaves after the society's norms rather than american hip hop or jungle women.

 

[Kobrag]

What...I don't even.