Will heavy armor actually be more heavy?

[whereisthedevblog]

For some reason heavy armor is actually not as restrictive on the body in warband. Its not realistic and needs to be looked at. It slows down your movement, but not by much and you still attack the same speed as if you are wearing light armor. So my suggestion is to make it so when you are wearing heavy armor, you walk slower, you attack slower, and you have decreased stamania (if its in the game). This is so we can actually see light infantry have uses besides just being worser troops. This could make the game even more fun when you have to find a balance between light and heavy units.

 

[Huggles]

This is not realistic at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc

Heavy armor should just be slower in movement speed, it shouldn't be restricted in any other way.

 

[whereisthedevblog]

Well  the youtube video looks like hes not wearing heavy enough armor. The plates look really thin. Im talking about the real heavy armor used during the early middle ages. And still the light infantry in the game needs a buff beacuse you can easily conquor the entire map by spamming Swadian Knights. In addition to spear buffs, the light infantry shouldd get into position and set formations faster becausee they are wearing light armor.

 

[King Yngvar]

For some reason heavy armor is actually not as restrictive on the body in warband. Its not realistic and needs to be looked at. It slows down your movement, but not by much and you still attack the same speed as if you are wearing light armor. So my suggestion is to make it so when you are wearing heavy armor, you walk slower, you attack slower, and you have decreased stamania (if its in the game). This is so we can actually see light infantry have uses besides just being worser troops. This could make the game even more fun when you have to find a balance between light and heavy units.

I'll counter that by asking if heavy armor will actually be more heavy... in terms of the level of protection it offers. As it is in Warband, unless you modify armor values and tweak soak and reduction, you can cut through heavy mail and gambeson with a sword. Which is quite ridiculous.

Edit, adding an answer to this:

Well  the youtube video looks like hes not wearing heavy enough armor. The plates look really thin. Im talking about the real heavy armor used during the early middle ages. And still the light infantry in the game needs a buff beacuse you can easily conquor the entire map by spamming Swadian Knights. In addition to spear buffs, the light infantry shouldd get into position and set formations faster becausee they are wearing light armor.

Here's an advantage for light infantry: They are lower on the upgrade tree so they are faster and cheaper to get and they cost less maintenance.

 

[Al_Mansur]

Well  the youtube video looks like hes not wearing heavy enough armor. The plates look really thin. Im talking about the real heavy armor used during the early middle ages.

These armors are among the heaviest used in the middle ages. Thick plates were only used in late medieval and Renaissance jousting.
However I do agree it should impact on stamina.

 

[Orion]

Well  the youtube video looks like hes not wearing heavy enough armor. The plates look really thin. Im talking about the real heavy armor used during the early middle ages.

If you think that armor isn't heavy enough, then you aren't talking about real heavy armor that was actually used. There are diminishing returns for having thicker and thicker plates, and the only threats a knight was likely to face that could cause him serious harm through a plate were maces, crossbows, and falling onto something hard like a rock. Armor was designed to be worn in combat, and if it hinders your range of motion or mobility then you're disadvantaged in combat. The goal was to offer the greatest amount of protection over the greatest surface area without restricting the wearer at all. The main hindrance of wearing heavy armor is its weight, but again it was designed to be as easy to wear as possible. A lot of the weight rests on the hips, which spares your spine and lets you do most of the lifting with your legs. Watch the video Huggles posted again, it's only about 2 minutes long. Look at how easily they can stand up, and how nimble they are. That's not because their armor is too light to be practical, that's because their armor is properly designed and fitted.

 

[CKyHC]

For the effect of heavy armor, appropriate sounds are needed (approximately as in dark souls 1)

 

[AmateurHetman]

This is not realistic at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc

Heavy armor should just be slower in movement speed, it shouldn't be restricted in any other way.

Well  the youtube video looks like hes not wearing heavy enough armor. The plates look really thin. Im talking about the real heavy armor used during the early middle ages. And still the light infantry in the game needs a buff beacuse you can easily conquor the entire map by spamming Swadian Knights. In addition to spear buffs, the light infantry shouldd get into position and set formations faster becausee they are wearing light armor.

Well Bannerlord is set when plate armour did not exist. The most common armour will be chainmail where a full coat would be much heavier than a suit of plate armour.
Warband does actually have an impact on mobility the heavier the armour, although it probably isn't noticeable due to the agility skill. In multiplayer you can notice it much more, where light armour makes people much faster than someone in the heaviest armour.

I don't agree with a stamina function, I believe TWs have said they won't be adding one anyway. However, it would be good to see heavier armour affecting movement speed, swing speed, speed of bow draw etc. but it shouldn't be over-the-top.

 

[Balexander]

wasnt there a Thread about this already somewhere ?,

 

[Orion]

We get quite a few repeat threads, but if the last thread has fallen back a few pages then we generally don't make an issue of it. A casual search for "heavy armor" doesn't turn up a thread dedicated to this topic on the first page of results. IIRC, the discussions about heavy armor typically wound up in threads about cleaving & projectile damage.

 

[Al_Mansur]

Well Bannerlord is set when plate armour did not exist. The most common armour will be chainmail where a full coat would be much heavier than a suit of plate armour.

Mail hauberks, even full, were actually lighter than plate armors.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

The main restriction for heavy armour should be logistical and economic rather than tactical. The best armour is extremely expensive and hard to make, and whether or not the military in question requires soliders to purchase their own equipment or supplies it for them, it's not going to be feasible to churn out hundreds of heavy cavalrymen just so long as you have the money. The reason the Romans stopped using lorica segmentata is partially because they stopped being able to produce plate armour as effectively.

I definitely think bannerlord should have a system where armour and weapons actually have to be produced somewhere and not just bought from an infinite stockpile. In an ancient system the main bottleneck is often the resources themselves rather than the money.

 

[DtheHun]

It is usually nerfed with slowness in rock–paper–scissors type games (strategy) to avoid brainless tank rushes as unstoppable swadian knight armies in Warband. That not means that it was not superior in reality. And I hope the faster pace of Bannerlord will make that very hard to achieve in one life span.

 

[vota dc]

M&B 1 system was better: too much weight and you can't even run or even move. WW1 body armor was too heavy and ineffective but standard armor of bannerlord should be pratical and don't slow you too much. If you want to create turle warriors for your personal army that would be ok.

 

[Huggles]

The only difference between light and heavy should be movement speed. It should be enough for light armor to have a distinct mobility advantage.

However, the reason for doing this would be game balance not realism.

I think this is more than likely already in the game (you can see the classes in commander battles and players in the community have said the game can feel different depending on your class) and the topic should die now.

 

[hirovard]

he's right you know, warband is quite unrealistic with its "heavy" armour. Everyone knows that in medieval times this is the real heavy armour

Spoiler

 

[OnionKnight]

For some reason heavy armor is actually not as restrictive on the body in warband. Its not realistic and needs to be looked at. It slows down your movement, but not by much and you still attack the same speed as if you are wearing light armor. So my suggestion is to make it so when you are wearing heavy armor, you walk slower, you attack slower, and you have decreased stamania (if its in the game). This is so we can actually see light infantry have uses besides just being worser troops. This could make the game even more fun when you have to find a balance between light and heavy units.

that was incredibly painful to read

 

[ermine]

I absolutely don't want to have too many tactical or whatever realism in the game. Because this ( as any of them ) game is going to fail to reproduce a real world anyways. Instead of having mission restricted gear ( archer stuff, bandit stuff, heavy stuff, light stuff ) - make it diverse , colorful and cool looking. Filter should be eventually monetary or availability driven.

Really never understood this pedantic wishes for realism in details whereas no one would be happy about dice rolling regarding dying from wounds, or being taken off game for 2 weeks because the last exhausting battle on a rainy and fresh March Weekend caused a severe bronchitis.

It is a game , give it attraction / variety , give it depth and fun in every stage ( early, mid , late game) and give good base and built for modding.

If in warband something really bothers me (i.e) is the travelling around to find a certain piece of armour / cloth or weapon. Fully aware that there is no such thing a medieval Amazon / Baba etc however make proper use of the shops or smiths. That would be the sort of realism that I personally would really appreciate.

 

[578]

Heaviness of armor has been debunked many times on the internet. It is not as heavy as you think it is. Warband heavy armor was painfully boring to play. We dont need a walking simulator or a dying-of-boredom simulator. This is a game. Heavy armor should be expensive only, nothing more or less.

 

[King Yngvar]

Heaviness of armor has been debunked many times on the internet. It is not as heavy as you think it is. Warband heavy armor was painfully boring to play. We dont need a walking simulator or a dying-of-boredom simulator. This is a game. Heavy armor should be expensive only, nothing more or less.

And offer way more protection than it did in Warband, especially from sword cuts and arrows.