Why can't some units promote to their higher tier?

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Some units don't have a promotion path to the higher tier despite blatantly having a higher tier counterpart, such as the militia - veteran militia and armed trader - caravan guard - veteran guard. Is there a reason that they are unable to be promoted? This is actually a rhetorical question, they should be upgradeable.
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
If I had to venture a guess, its because they want to make sure that the cheaper caravans only has the lower tier guards. Otherwise, they'd upgrade and then they'd have the better guards for the cheaper investment.

Not saying its a good reason. If a caravan survives enough fights to upgrade all its guards, then it deserves to have them. I just think that might be the reasoning behind it.
 
If I had to venture a guess, its because they want to make sure that the cheaper caravans only has the lower tier guards. Otherwise, they'd upgrade and then they'd have the better guards for the cheaper investment.

Not saying its a good reason. If a caravan survives enough fights to upgrade all its guards, then it deserves to have them. I just think that might be the reasoning behind it.
That is true, although as you say it's not necessarily a good reason. I wouldn't mind for example if militia in the settlements couldn't promote naturally for auto-resolve reasons, but the player and AI parties not being able to upgrade them feels stupid.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Can't we straight up hire caravan guards from taverns? My game is heavily modded so I can't check, but I vaguely remember being able to hire armed traders & caravan guards in vanilla.
Caravan guards, yes. Militia, I don't think so.
 

Lord Irontoe

Master Knight
Even if we aren't supposed to have them in our party (in which case they really shouldn't be recruitable at all), they still ought to be able to upgrade on their own without it being locked behind perks and special buildings. If a fief survives a few sieges those militia guys should upgrade from the experience. It might even help those border fiefs that are constantly getting sieged all the time.
 

Bluko88

Sergeant
Some units don't have a promotion path to the higher tier despite blatantly having a higher tier counterpart, such as the militia - veteran militia and armed trader - caravan guard - veteran guard. Is there a reason that they are unable to be promoted? This is actually a rhetorical question, they should be upgradeable.
Well militia spawns are fixed, so that sort of make sense. You only get significant # of veteran militia in Towns/Castles that are doing well. Though it would be nice if Towns/Castles that were undisturbed effectively had better militia from them upgrading too. Militia units are all pretty bad, veterans are okay, but not particularly good for T4. I get rid of them soon as I can, only keep them if my party happens to be very diminished.

Caravan guards aren't terribly great either from what I recall, but suppose they can be decent. Why those don't upgrade is a mystery. Maybe they'd make caravans upkeep too expensive?


You can only build one caravan really anyways, the more caravans you build the faster they get destroyed. There's some funny TW math going on, because if you only have one caravan there's a good chance that it'll just run forever.

I hate caravans since they are rarely profitable as a result, but with shops being unreliable and extra expensive it's about only way to get passive income early on. Still don't think either are worth it now, unless you really want to RP a trader. Just kill people and take their stuff.
 
If it means anything, I don't believe militia actually upgrade or anything like that even if they had the ability to do so. At least from the tests I've been running for my new mod project.

Might try that with caravans next.
 
Well militia spawns are fixed, so that sort of make sense. You only get significant # of veteran militia in Towns/Castles that are doing well. Though it would be nice if Towns/Castles that were undisturbed effectively had better militia from them upgrading too. Militia units are all pretty bad, veterans are okay, but not particularly good for T4. I get rid of them soon as I can, only keep them if my party happens to be very diminished.
Shouldn't it be the opposite? The militia that have seen combat should technically be better at it, not that it really matters since as you've said, militia are pretty bad.
Caravan guards aren't terribly great either from what I recall, but suppose they can be decent. Why those don't upgrade is a mystery. Maybe they'd make caravans upkeep too expensive?
Caravan guards and veteran caravan guards, which are all mounted, are basically normal tier 4 & 5 units. From what I remember the Aserai vet caravan guard has exactly the same equipment and stats as the Mamluke heavy horse archers and the Empire one is mounted crossbowman. It's also possible that the Battanian caravan guards may be better than their regular t5 horsemen which are hot trash.
You can only build one caravan really anyways, the more caravans you build the faster they get destroyed. There's some funny TW math going on, because if you only have one caravan there's a good chance that it'll just run forever.

I hate caravans since they are rarely profitable as a result, but with shops being unreliable and extra expensive it's about only way to get passive income early on. Still don't think either are worth it now, unless you really want to RP a trader. Just kill people and take their stuff.
This is very interesting, could you elaborate on why having more than 1 caravan makes them more likely to be destroyed? Also, I might be misunderstanding what you're saying here but caravan guards can be recruited from taverns just like regular mercenaries without having a caravan (tho I don't remember if they're as expensive as a mercenary or if they benefit from merc cost reduction perks).
 
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If it means anything, I don't believe militia actually upgrade or anything like that even if they had the ability to do so. At least from the tests I've been running for my new mod project.
That's actually good to hear, since that means being able to upgrade militia won't impact siege auto-resolve and map balance. Not that I was actually planning to use any militia in my party regardless if I could promote them, it is just a little annoying I can't upgrade militia.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Maybe we should be able to upgrade base militia in our party into standard troops or maybe mercenaries
If it means anything, I don't believe militia actually upgrade or anything like that even if they had the ability to do so. At least from the tests I've been running for my new mod project.

Might try that with caravans next.
I'm 100% sure that there is an existing way to get to parties to not upgrade because bandits used to upgrade over time. It made Aserai deserts and Khuzait steppes ****ing horrible with banditry.
 
I'm 100% sure that there is an existing way to get to parties to not upgrade because bandits used to upgrade over time. It made Aserai deserts and Khuzait steppes ****ing horrible with banditry.
Maybe... but I can't help but then question the **** that goes on in my own modding. With a party template consisting of one top tier bandit, I end up seeing gangs with a few too many...
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Maybe... but I can't help but then question the **** that goes on in my own modding. With a party template consisting of one top tier bandit, I end up seeing gangs with a few too many...
I don't think that bandits necessarily respect the party templates they are given; it seems like they (slowly) just generate more.
 
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