What made you lose faith in humanity today?
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?️NS Marko said:
Some people suffer disproportionately from PTSD. If you grow up with idealistic views about how everyone is naturally nice, or how all your problems are localised and the rest of time/space is much happier, then having that view broken suddenly can induce PTSD.
One crazy example is of two hippies who went to India and then killed themselves because they couldn't come to terms with how widespread the poverty was. There are also plenty of cases of young idealistic Japanese tourists who are told in every portion of their media that France is a magical wonderland where everything is beautiful, and then they actually go to France and have mental breakdowns.
Not saying that the guy isn't exaggerating, I mean I highly doubt he went to the doctor and got diagnosed with PTSD before suddenly coming out with the story, but not all traumatic experiences are equal.
They're not, but here we're using emotional response as a sort of metric for how deplorable (and punishable) a behavior is in the eyes of the society. And if we are using it that way we have to somehow average it out. If we used purely subjective response, then even if we weed out all people who exaggerate for whatever reasons, then there's still Nozick's utility monster kurczak's sensitivity monster. Maybe, hypothetically, there is a person out there who would legitimately be emotionally crippled if I didn't say hello to them and it would cause them near infinite pain for years and decades and cost them millions in therapy. But I cannot, should not be held responsible for that in any manner, especially not legal one. After a certain point, your emotions are just your problem.
kurczak said:
I wasn't. I meant to highlight why I think it's silly to make comparisons and act like somebody's trauma isn't real because another person experienced something worse.
^^^kurczak said:
Is this some sort of meme or something? I don't keep up with that kind of things.Evvv said:
Ok, but this is still the same issue as with labeling everything "sexual assault". For words and language to even work, they must mean at least approximately the same thing for the speakers. If the guy said that he had PTSD, he knew or at least should have known, that people are going to picture suffering comparable to shell shock or surviving an evil clown's murderous rampage etc , because that's the context it's used 99.99% of the time. And by using this word he sought to elicit empathy for himself and as a function also disgust towards the "perpetrator" comparable to those situations. Even though what really happened was nowhere near to it and on the extreme off-chance that he really did subjectively perceive it as intensely as your average person perceives "the 'Nam" or living through a Stephen King's book, then it really is a problem with his receiver. It's just irresponsible at best, manipulative at worst.ＪＡＣＶＢＨＩＮＤＳ // 寒心４２０? said:
If you're going to complain about "labeling everything 'sexual assault'", and then throw out some argument about how language must conform to some universal standard, you're being inconsistent. You're picking out the dramatized definitions of PTSD because combat-related PTSD has been a hot button topic ever since we've been at war, and totally ignoring the existence of many clinical diagnoses because they don't fit your argument. I get an email a couple of times a month from my campus police reporting on various sexual assaults that happen. In the last four years, not one of them would be prosecuted as a rape. It's not the case that the mythical courts of public opinion are convicting people left and right of capital-R RapeTM when the "worst" anybody's ever done is wolf-whistle at some SJW. When survivors of sexual assault report things done to them to the authorities, or feel that the authorities won't/can't help them so they go public personally, it's uncommon for the accusations to be more specific than they actually are. As a totally unrelated observer, it costs you nothing to say "Wow, it's horrible that happened to you. I hope you get the help and support you need in this trying time." It also costs you nothing to say "In the event that this results in criminal charges, I apologize for immediately dismissing this story as yet another overreaction/attention grab."
Or, you know, you could just not comment at all.
Or, you know, you could just not comment at all.
Feragorn, you're doing the exact same thing kurczak warned against. You're taking cases of shell-shock and rape and equate them to "trauma" someone may claim to have because a stranger aggressively brushed a boob against him in a bus or slapped him on a butt.
kurczak is being absolutely consistent. We must have clear boundaries concerning what we call rape or sexual assault because those are prosecutable offences. Like you can't let the term "murder" get somewhat moot, for example.
kurczak is being absolutely consistent. We must have clear boundaries concerning what we call rape or sexual assault because those are prosecutable offences. Like you can't let the term "murder" get somewhat moot, for example.
What spacey did(if story is true) is something though. If someone I knew invited a 14 years old(i don't think Spacey thought Rapp was an adult, it's 14 not 17, and they were working in the same film's cast), laid on top of him in night, and insisted on him to stay; I would have a strong 'what the hell you were doing' reaction. Much stronger than my reaction to a crotch grab or ass slap.
in general I'm unhappy with words with strong connotations being used for everything, but happy that new sexual mores give more sexual autonomy to people. Ass slap is not rape, but it's nice to have stronger norms giving you more control on who/when/how touches your body.
in general I'm unhappy with words with strong connotations being used for everything, but happy that new sexual mores give more sexual autonomy to people. Ass slap is not rape, but it's nice to have stronger norms giving you more control on who/when/how touches your body.
Dystopian
Sexual assault is different than rape right? Like assault and murder I'd assume.
Weaver said:
No, I'm not. PTSD has varying intensities depending on the specific trauma and the specific person. Some people don't have PTSD at all, even though they've been through deeply traumatic experiences. Some people have severe PTSD even though they haven't experienced what "other people" would consider to be very traumatic. I don't know how to handle your example, because half the sentence sounds like somebody bumped into you on a train and now I'm magically saying you were raped? That's not what I said at all, and you're intentionally trying to minimize what people are going public with. You're ignoring my point, which is exactly that rape and sexual assault have specific prosecutable meanings, and in general people are being appropriate in how they use them.
Yeah, the example being ignored here is pretty important.Calradianın Bilgesi said:
ＤＹＳＴＯＰＩＡＮ said:
From the DOJ:
You can not judge people by how they make other people feel. Because that would lead to unfair outcomes due to people having different levels of emotional stability. In other words, if someone has a PTSD because he got called a moron, it doesn't aggravate the insult in any way.Feragorn said:
You can only judge people by what they actually did, assuming a standard assessment of damage done by such action.
Every rational human has to subscribe to this system or we just return to barbarism of opinion/emotion-driven justice.
Weaver said:
As far as I know, calling somebody a moron is not a crime. Physically restraining somebody, and then lying on top of them in order to make sexual advances on them is a crime. It is a sexual act perpetrated without consent of the victim. In this case, the victim was underage, and the perpetrator was an adult, which adds another level to the issue. If you're insinuating that every "rational human" would look at that situation and immediately jump to "well it's about the same as accidentally bumping into someone", then your idea of "rationality" is deeply flawed. This isn't emotion driven justice, this is taking the absolute minimum amount of energy to listen to someone who's coming forward with their experience. I'd bet that no charges ever come from this. The event was thirty years ago, and apparently only Anthony Rapp and Kevin Spacey were present in Spacey's bedroom at the time. "Emotion driven justice" has nowhere to go in regards to the actual justice system. That's a very different situation from looking at a number of people who come forward with accusations of sexual assault and saying "Maybe it would be better to not work with Kevin Spacey for now".
Molesting an underage is indeed a crime. If Kevin Spacey actually committed a crime I want him prosecuted and punished. I want real jail time and I will even condone complete social ostracism in case if he is guilty.
What I see here is nothing of that kind. It is a smear campaign on the basis of hearsay and probable slander.
What I see here is nothing of that kind. It is a smear campaign on the basis of hearsay and probable slander.
Speaking of crime, there's a reason for the concept 'satute barred'.
Crimes should not necessarily follow people for decades, especially when it comes to minor misdemeanors.
It's also meant to prevent accusations being used as harassment against someone, and wasting the resources of the justice system.
That said, crimes against children should always have a long expiration date
since they don't have the mental resources of adults to report their perpetrators. They must have the opportunity to do it many years later.
Crimes should not necessarily follow people for decades, especially when it comes to minor misdemeanors.
It's also meant to prevent accusations being used as harassment against someone, and wasting the resources of the justice system.
That said, crimes against children should always have a long expiration date
since they don't have the mental resources of adults to report their perpetrators. They must have the opportunity to do it many years later.
