What Captain Mode actually needs right now.

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Aliaksandr

Regular
For the benefit of both sides of the dispute) it would be nice to introduce something like a league into the Captain Mode. But, of course, this is only possible following an increase in the gaming community.
 
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Ling*

Knight at Arms
For the benefit of both sides of the dispute) it would be nice to introduce something like a league into the Captain Mode. But, of course, this is only possible following an increase in the gaming community.
If only some form of Captains League existed... Hmmmmm. I guess we may never know. Honestly if the playerbase was big enough this wouldnt even be an issue due to the way the queue works by trying to match groups vs other groups and then after a certain time passes the search range gets broadened. If there really were enough solo players in queue you wouldn't ever see 6 stacks, but apparently there aren't enough solo queue players to make this happen. Though im not sure why anyone would ever want to play unorganized captain in the first place, but to each his own.Most clans that I know actually prefer doing full 6v6s but we are currently in a lull of activity pending some much needed fixes so you arent going to find many full organized matches until the new MP updates come out. Until then I suggest you grab a group of friends to play with or try to convince your random teammates to work with you, and if they aren't toxic people like some people that i know of in this thread who refuse to coordinate with their teammates and who won't be named, then you have a solid chance of competing against a more organized group. Like it or not captain is a team game and no matter what level of play you participate in the team with better teamwork is going to win, even if that is 6 random people who just agree to work together instead of doing their own thing split up across the map.
 
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Poddicus

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Inappropriate behavior
All I hear you say is "blahblah blah, look at me blah blah", nice try trying to get me triggered though!
Joke attempt at dismissing his point as flaming because you know he's right and your mode deserves to die
You should delete your account tbh
 
The easy solution to all these problems would be custom servers. Taleworlds alone knows thy they chose to abandon these.
 

Danny5

Sergeant
The easy solution to all these problems would be custom servers. Taleworlds alone knows thy they chose to abandon these.
They didn't abandoned custom servers, Callum said that once beta is close to becoming the full game , they'll releases custom servers to us
 

Aliaksandr

Regular
On the one hand, it's nice to see new players joining the MP (the old ones are probably tired of each other for a long time:wink:). On the other hand, after a couple of thousand battles, it is harder and harder for the nervous system to calmly react to the "peculiarities of understanding the game" of rookies:smile:)
 

Callum

Community Lead
There are a ton of posts about this already. This is not one of those long-winded we want a million new things implemented type of posts. I just want the one thing that would actually make Captain Mode a lot more enjoyable for 90% of the playerbase and that is not allowing people to join it as a clan, against a team of players that are randomly assembled from the pool. We either need to end it being a possibility at all, and save grouping as a clan for the Clan Matches tab that already exists, or create a separate queue for players who like to join as a group where they HAVE to be matched with another group before random players are assigned to each team. This is one of the simplest things that could possibly be implemented, and it would do wonders for the online community if experienced players are not allowed to gang up on inexperienced people who have just purchased the game, making their experience entirely unenjoyable.

I understand the frustration with solo queuing and getting matched against full premades, it is never fun in any game.

The way the system currently works is; first it will try to match premades against other premades. After some time, the system will start to lower the requirements to create matches. The issue right now is that the player base simply isn't big enough for this type of matchmaking system to work effectively, meaning premades and solo players are being matched together.

We've added a suggestion from another thread to our feedback report for a separate solo queue for Skirmish and Captain modes, and we will include this thread as part of that discussion.
 

Danny5

Sergeant
I understand the frustration with solo queuing and getting matched against full premades, it is never fun in any game.

The way the system currently works is; first it will try to match premades against other premades. After some time, the system will start to lower the requirements to create matches. The issue right now is that the player base simply isn't big enough for this type of matchmaking system to work effectively, meaning premades and solo players are being matched together.

We've added a suggestion from another thread to our feedback report for a separate solo queue for Skirmish and Captain modes, and we will include this thread as part of that discussion.
How about making these game modes in the server lists as well? That way players can see how many players are playing it? But in this way, the player count would need to be higher, say 20-30 players, maybe?
 

Ling*

Knight at Arms
How about making these game modes in the server lists as well? That way players can see how many players are playing it? But in this way, the player count would need to be higher, say 20-30 players, maybe?
Captain with 30 players would literally melt the servers
 

Aliaksandr

Regular
The issue right now is that the player base simply isn't big
So maybe it's time to finally step up the process of promoting this wonderful game. At least MP is already a completely finished and high-quality product. Based on this, it is completely incomprehensible to me why you put so little effort into promoting Bannerlord. After all, it would seem that this is an absolutely obvious and long-awaited step of the developer/publisher at this stage.
 
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Joke attempt at dismissing his point as flaming because you know he's right and your mode deserves to die
You should delete your account tbh
omg, how many accounts in this the forum do you have? One to be toxic, one to be funny and one to be the "intelligent" one? Do you also talk to yourself with the different accounts to win arguments? You are bringing narcissism to a new level. And you're muted, again.
 

Orion

Still Not Worthy
Global Moderator
M&BWBWF&SNW
And you're muted, again.
Which means moderators are on it, so you don't have to get after him. Let us deal with that, and keep yourself on track.

We've added a suggestion from another thread to our feedback report for a separate solo queue for Skirmish and Captain modes, and we will include this thread as part of that discussion.
This is becoming a common feature in other games with skill-based matchmaking. If the small player base ends up being a problem for a separate solo queue, consider a combined solo & pair queue. The goal is to separate the premades from the solo queuers, but it's the (near) full team premades that are the biggest concern. If BL is at all like other games, then a lot of people play it with one or two friends at a time, so enabling that while protecting it from doom stacking would work out, IMO.
 
At least MP is already a completely finished and high-quality product.
Man's got jokes.

There are simply not enough skilled players and teams in the game right now and the skill gap between experienced players and new ones is essentially infinite, especially in captain where bad ping is less of a factor than in skirmish. There are plenty of terrible players who have no concept of how to play the game and yet have 500+ and in some cases 750+ wins.
Captain with 30 players would literally melt the servers
The truth. How many times in season 2 of the league this year did we experienced hour-to-day long waits when 3-4 league matches (36-48 players) overlapped their play times?

Bruh DM and APE literally played it like it was singleplayer going off solo to kill bots when they could, and they beat all your silly captain teams.
DM is essentially the second best team in the world at skirmish so why would it be surprising they won? How many competitions has DM played in together at this point, 20+? 30+? How many hours of Warband does Arni have? Of the 8 teams that made the captain league playoffs only 2 (SkBR and KoV) had played in Captain League Season 1 and nobody on the KoV roster for Season 2 was a starter on the Season 1 team. 4 out of the 22 teams had played in Captain League before. I'm assuming the guys that made up APE had played in various skirmish tournies before, as did XYZ. This was likely the first tournament/competition ever for 15 of the teams that made up the league. Established squads like SkBR and BTL had played in maybe 5 or 6 total events heading into Season 2 of the league, and 3-4 of those were like 4 team single day invites with test/balance rules like you have to play 2 archers every round so not useful at all. Both of those teams lost some of their best players before or during the regular season as well.

APE put together random NA skirm guys including taking from XYZ, got second despite having no clue how to play infantry, got nice wins in the playoffs over SkBR and a KoV team that played without their two best cav players but APE did absolutely nothing in the regular season because they had more than 50% forfeit wins. They had a negative record in actual rounds played until something like Week 7 or 8 of the 8 week regular season. DM lost a game to CrCC which was one of the newest and worst organized teams in the league who didn't even finish above the halfway mark in the bracket iirc. People that didn't play in the league need to stop acting like skirm teams ran riot. Anyone who can play cav well would dominate captain in its current form, it's not difficult. APE and DM were successful because everyone on their teams could cav and 0 captain teams had 6 prepared cav players, VoV tried and literally put Relaxan on the roster to get 3rd place.

Before the past season of captain there was some unwritten code of honor where teams didn't just rambo all the time and metagame cav like SP and at one point archers weren't entirely useless dog**** but with patches and then skirm teams coming in rambo play became the predominant meta. If you took that away (I'm not advocating for this to happen bc I don't mind rambo) the skirmish teams would and did get clapped trying to play captain even though it is a very simple game. Their understanding of infantry engagements was terrible and every skirm archer main thinks they can play archer to clap rambo cav then watches his unit go 2-17 and never plays it again. APE legitimately had no comprehension of why they were winning or losing select fights when they played infantry and abandoned it altogether for huge stretches of time, plenty of video of Melon questioning why tf you would play captain like captain because they were bad at it. Playing as a single troop of course would benefit skirmish players since that's all the game mode is, working with 5 other guys. The threat of being able to always go full cav 6 rambo aided DM and APE more than anything else because teams would change builds specifically to counter cav then not be kitted out for infantry fights.
 
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Mabons

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
"APE and DM did well cause everyone could play cav" you realise Skirmish teams right now comprise of 2-3 cav max, that rotate in and out. The rest were infantry and archer players who were far better than even your "captain cav main" players.

"Lost to CrCC which was one of the newest and worst organized teams" just like DM and APE were? They literally had no clue of the "captain" meta and still came 1st and 2nd by just playing it like they play skirmish. This isn't the only time either, KW entered a team in the captain league 1, wasn't even their best players either IIRC and they still came 2nd or something, and that was when it was literally shock inf smash, could be mistaken.

"unwritten code of honour" nah, you cannot use that as an arguement. Imagine if Skirmish tournaments relied on an "unwritten code of honour" for class limits, it just won't work. If a team wants to win it wants to use the best strategy for it.

In any case the point is captain just can't be competitive until the AI actually fights as good as players does, and you can exercise precise control over everything they do.
 
"APE and DM did well cause everyone could play cav" you realise Skirmish teams right now comprise of 2-3 cav max, that rotate in and out. The rest were infantry and archer players who were far better than even your "captain cav main" players.
Skirm, at least Beast, obv has unit caps so 2 cav max, but DM brought in more cav players and rotated out guys like Pop since archer mains didn't really do anything. Idk why Pacemaker bothers to offer an opinion on anything either because he didn't play. There were maybe 3-4 players across the 19 other "captain" teams that were "captain cav mains" prior to the season.
"Lost to CrCC which was one of the newest and worst organized teams" just like DM and APE were? They literally had no clue of the "captain" meta and still came 1st and 2nd by just playing it like they play skirmish. This isn't the only time either, KW entered a team in the captain league 1, wasn't even their best players either IIRC and they still came 2nd or something, and that was when it was literally shock inf smash, could be mistaken.
Like I said the vast majority of the teams in the field were first time sides but unlike DM and APE most had never played in any competitions whatsoever, these were their first competitive matches. DM has probably played 20+ events. Most of the APE guys I assume had played NAAB and the other small events before. And again them playing not playing "captain" didn't mean anything other than they could not play infantry or archers because it meant they would lose. The skill ceiling on cav in captain is incredibly low so that immediately just became the meta when they started playing full rambo all the time or building the whole team composition around rambo play, invisible walls and exploiting the lack of a "change weapons" button for your troops like WB has. No class limits and because captain doesn't have a built-in eco like skirm allowed these things to happen. In the future captain will hopefully have class limits for organized play.

Captain in season 2 just immediately became skirmish except instead of having to kill 2 skilled cav players 2 times each in a round like in skirm you might have to go kill that player 5-9 times and might have to do that with all 6 players, that's the difference. Yes there are bots but every captain match right now between organized teams is now played as extended skirm with this scenario and yet single braincell retarded skirm mains will still claim it isn't PVP because they don't play it and have nothing better to do than endlessly whine and complain about captain.

KW came in 4th in season 1 where there was balance among classes prior to 1.5 dropping two days before the semifinals.
"unwritten code of honour" nah, you cannot use that as an arguement. Imagine if Skirmish tournaments relied on an "unwritten code of honour" for class limits, it just won't work. If a team wants to win it wants to use the best strategy for it.

In any case the point is captain just can't be competitive until the AI actually fights as good as players does, and you can exercise precise control over everything they do.

I'm not saying it was right merely that it existed, in part due to more balance in the game prior to season 2 (see 1.5 patch). The vast majority of the captain players and teams did not use the full rambo style of play before the league because it was seen as toxic behavior to do this in pub either as a stack or as a solo player dragging the rounds out to 8-10 minutes every round every game, so very few players had even practiced this style. Skirmish guys rightfully gave no ****s because they understood that was the only way they would win, and in competition that was fair because it wasn't prohibited.

Yes without class limits the game will continue to be played this way. The AI being competent will never actually happen, imagine the outrage of captain pub players or people that haven't learned cav if AI cav ever got to the level of the player where one life can equal 15-30 kills. Giving the "use x weapon, use y weapon" command back from WB will help as will class limits.
 
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jon01

Knight at Arms
APE winging their match against a dedicated Captains team without using cavalry:


By the way, this was Captains in its earliest stage during EA:


Listen to the commentary. There might not have been Rambo (though it was still possible), but archers still seemed useless, and the most effective meta was simply to steamroll with two cavalry and four shock infantry. (I saw more varied and interesting plays by APE in CL2, with or without Rambo.) The winning team apparently played that composition for the whole tournament, and there seemed to be little the other teams could do about it, except possibly to run all shock infantry (as the commentator suggests), which is exactly what people complained sorely about after the big MP patch that introduced crushthrough later on.
 
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