[Werewolf] - Rediscovery - Wolf Victory!

[Xardob]

Ok, it's Saturday night and I'm alone at home without anything to do and there's a WW game on. You all know what this means, it's drunken (or slightly intoxicated, I'm not drunk, yet) LoS time.

1. Xardob - I don't know how anyone can ever trust this ****er, obviously a wolf. I mean, this post itself is all you need. Who but a wolf would call everyone in the game a wolf?

2. Marowit (Eternal) - His opening vote is probably the lowest hanging fruit in sight, a vote on Adaham (that's Big Mclarge-Huge for those not in the know. I'll never get used to saying everyone's new name.) for his enthusiasm. Lazy wolf is lazy. Voted Fishy after that. While that is a correct vote, it doesn't feel like he's trying to get him lynched. I'm breaking my first rule of wolf hunting here, but I think Eternal and Fishy have a very good chance of being packmates.

3. Dago Wolfrider - He's very active, so there's a lot for me to nitpick into a case here, makes my job easier. The first thing that jumps into mind is his completely weird unvote right after Fishy's first post. I get that he was just voting him for his absence, but how can anyone see this and unvote right after? Also has a tendency to hunt for packs instead of wolves, which is very convenient. I don't know if he purposefully misrepresend Adaham's argument here or just jumped the gun, but wolf either way. After failing to get anything going on Adaham he changed his target to me. Just another wolf jumping on the wagon.

4. Jock - This post is his most problematic so far. Framing the discussion on his terms so that he can railroad it however he wants. Then signaling his innocence without actually acting on it. I'm also uncomfortable with anyone defending me, so add another strike to him.

I know I've been flying a bit under the radar and am probably coming off a tad hypocritical when mentioning other inactive people, no excuses there.

This also seems very self conscious. Anything you got to hide, Jock?

5. Arch3r - Runner up for worst opening vote alongside Eternal. This just screams wolf not wanting to get involved in anything that might bring him trouble. Jumped right into the Fishy wagon after that. The entire argument was pointless. Then, there's his LoS. Aside from a couple players, he doesn't seem to have a strong opinion on anyone, almost as if he's keeping his options open. His opinion on Fishy is particularly interesting. If Fishys is indeed innocent, I bet this is a wolf defending someone he knows is a villager and made a bad mistake, just to look good after the innocent is lynched. His entire case against Jock and me seems to revolve around our comments about each other, which is poor hunting, unless you're a wolf.

6. MaHuD - His first meaningful contribution was to vote a lurker (at the time). This is all well and good, but when that's all you do, it just seems like parking your vote. Also did the usual Adaham and Xardob sniping. Really, I think Adaham hit the nail in the head about MahuD so far:

Gauging player reactions by placing votes is what every experienced player does. Well, almost every experienced player. There are those that sit in the corner smoking, commenting cynically on everybodies attempts at getting something going, and twirling their chest hair, and that's that. Not sure that gets us a lot further.

I think that about sums up his participation so far. I mean, this is the best we have from him, which is not a lot. I miss the old aggressive MaHuD.

7. TheFlyingFishy - Makes a whole speech about lynching newbies the first day, then votes Eternal? In a game with, let alone Dago, Archer, Jock and Vieira? Sure, none of them are newcomers, but Eternal has way more experience than any of them. He then made a second post just defending his shoddy reasoning, which would be understandable if he didn't spend a third one speaking about only this, again. 

8. The Doge of Benis (Vieira)- Probably still vacuuming his room. All that fur can pile up, so it's understandable he doesn't have much time to post. He opens voting me, probably because he's terrified of the greatest wolfhunter ever. I can't fault him for that, really. Also goes after the easy targets of MaHuD and Eternal.

9. Big McLarge-Huge (Adaham) - Wolf. If that isn't enough for you (uncultured swines, go brush up on your werewolf history), then there's the fact that he made that ridiculous theory about me and Dago being a wolf so that he doesn't have to spend any effort to come up with actual suspects. He goes after me because he knows I'm the only hunter good enough to expose him. Dago is a strange choice, but that is probably just an old man falling back into tradition. The vote on Jock... Sorry I have no idea why he voted him. I can just assume junior hit those keys at random.

I'm pretty sure I had more to say about everyone, but I'm at my third glass of whiskey, so better wrap it up. So that's what we have so far:

Domesticated wolves - Jock, Vieira and Dago

Waiting for the moon to come out - Adaham, Eternal and MaHuD

Brushing their fur and sharpening their fangs and claws - Archer and Fishy

Ripping you throat out - Xardob

 

[Xardob]

Wow, rereading that and holy ****, I was better at coming up with **** out of my ass at some point. The "case" against Vieira is specially poor. Maybe Adaham isn't the only one getting old.

 

[Dago Wolfrider]

I read Fishy's post and I thought that Marowit was a noob, it sounded quite strange to me ( he is the one who made the Werewolf main thread ), but I had no other clues to not believe him till you wrote this. In other words it was too strange not to believe him. We still don't know why he did that, he should at least explain himself before Tuesday.

For what concerns Big McLarge-Huge, I did not misinterpret his reasoning, that's what he kept saying, WE ARE A TEAM and vote for Xardob while he was giving us no logical reasons to do that.

Wow, rereading that and holy ****, I was better at coming up with **** out of my *** at some point. The "case" against Vieira is specially poor. Maybe Adaham isn't the only one getting old.

True.

Regarding the Marowit-Fishy relation, I took that into consideration too. I read Marowit's post as if he was telling off Fishy for revealing information  . Yet hard to prove since they both have not posted much about the game per se and their respective votes.

Your point against Fishy is wrong: I am a newcomer. Moreover you forgot to mention his harsh and quite fast reaction to my Unvote.

Your points concerning Jock, MaHuD and Marowit are quite accurate.
The first part of your accusation concerning Arch3r is a bit exaggerated in my opinion, but I can't disagree with the second part ( his Los and Fishy ), yet it's hard to have a clear opinion on people that do not post much.

His entire case against Jock and me seems to revolve around our comments about each other, which is poor hunting, unless you're a wolf.

Yes, it mostly does, yet I can't agree with the second part of this sentence. I mean studying the relations between players will be really important the following days. As of now it's quite weak, but your mutual defensive relation was ( before this Los ) undeniable and strange, considered your and Jock's behavior and posts. Not to count Jock's last fishy post ( his question about my research ), I am quite positive that he hoped that I would have explained as Xardob is innocent through it, which is impossible. Yet to be honest it provided me with one point pro (you can interpret his behavior in both ways though) Xardob innocence: he did not highlight my swing vote till now and he did not accuse me of it/used it to have others vote me and so did Big McLarge-Huge. This only clearly proves that MaHuD was wrong nothing else, nothing more.

 

[Dago Wolfrider]

Your point against Fishy is wrong: I am a newcomer.

I rereread your post and I am wrong, you said that. I misinterpreted that part.

 

[Jock]

Not to count Jock's last fishy post ( his question about my research ), I am quite positive that he hoped that I would have explained as Xardob is innocent through it, which is impossible.

What's fishy about me asking whether you think two players are innocent or not, bruh? What would I gain from you saying Xardob is innocent... does your proposed narrative have a conclusion?

 

[Dago Wolfrider]

So your experiment showed they're both innocent then?

That's what you asked. I explained my conclusion two times already:

This only clearly proves that MaHuD was wrong nothing else, nothing more.

If Xardob is innocent than there is no need to lynch you while the accusations against you are mostly based on your defensive mutual relation with him. I thought that it would be chrystal clear to anyone.

I may be a bit exaggerating, but I love studying your reactions.

 

[NotAdaham]

Great LoS. I love it. 

Makes me want to get drunk and post here again. Maybe one of these days I'll get some beers and set away an hour to spam you guys with my drunkenness...

9. Big McLarge-Huge (Adaham) - Wolf. If that isn't enough for you (uncultured swines, go brush up on your werewolf history), then there's the fact that he made that ridiculous theory about me and Dago being a wolf so that he doesn't have to spend any effort to come up with actual suspects. He goes after me because he knows I'm the only hunter good enough to expose him. Dago is a strange choice, but that is probably just an old man falling back into tradition. The vote on Jock... Sorry I have no idea why he voted him. I can just assume junior hit those keys at random.

Bolded part is the reason for half of the people going after you, isn't it? 

As to my Jock vote. Believe it or not, but what I said in my last post explaining it is 100% the truth. 

I thought that it would be chrystal clear to anyone.

Sounds like the fake name of an 80s porn star. 

 

[Jock]

I thought that it would be chrystal clear to anyone.

It actually wasn't for me at least, mostly because I didn't focus hard enough on trying to create this connection between myself and I. It's strange seeing you accuse me for thinking both Adaham and Xardob are equally suspicious/not suspicious yet you seem to share the same opinion. What gives?

 

[Dago Wolfrider]

I thought that it would be chrystal clear to anyone.

It actually wasn't for me at least, mostly because I didn't focus hard enough on trying to create this connection between myself and I . It's strange seeing you accuse me for thinking both Adaham and Xardob are equally suspicious/not suspicious yet you seem to share the same opinion. What gives?

First: you and Xardob are the same person, why did anyone tell me that?
Second: what makes you think that I think that both Big McLarge-Huge and Xardob are equally suspious/not suspicious ( this does not even make sense to me, do you find them suspicious or not? )? I clearly stated this not long ago:

I am more leaning towards innocent for what concerns Big McLarge-Huge. Xardob can't say that.

Moreover I never accused you of this thing, that is indeed nonsense to me, I really can't understand your point. You should become more chrystal clear, and no I won't help you with this as long as you do not prove me that you are:
a) a woman
b) at least as beautiful as the one in that picture .

As to my Jock vote. Believe it or not, but what I said in my last post explaining it is 100% the truth.

No doubts about that.

P. S. I read Jock's last post more than five times before posting this and I still can't see his point.

 

[NotAdaham]

Sorry guys, I read all your banter, but could somebody explain to me what the hell you two are raving on about? 

I did get the Chrystal Clear reference, though. Later I shall start up incognito mode on my laptop and investigate the matter...hrm...more thoroughly... 

 

[NotAdaham]

This interaction between Lupo and Jock, though it has given us Chrystal Clear, is the first interaction in this game that feels to me like two wolves having an alibi-argument to appear active. Besides, of course, every single exchange between the X-man and me 

 

[Dago Wolfrider]

Sorry guys, I read all your banter, but could somebody explain to me what the hell you two are raving on about? 

I did get the Chrystal Clear reference, though. Later I shall start up incognito mode on my laptop and investigate the matter...hrm...more thoroughly... 

As I said, I don't know either, isn't it funny? Jock is seeing and saying things I clearly never wrote.

This interaction between Lupo and Jock, though it has given us Chrystal Clear, is the first interaction in this game that feels to me like two wolves having an alibi-argument to appear active. Besides, of course, every single exchange between the X-man and me 

I don't need to appear active, do I? I simply wanted to study Jock outside of his relation with Xardob to see if he is a wolf or not. Then he started talking about things I never said in a not Chrystal Clear way. That's how I see it.

 

[Jock]

Dago:
I was referring to your earlier verdicts, back when you started creating this connection between Xardob and I (didn't notice the typo before). It seemed to me you had both Adaham and X-man on equal levels of suspicion. Reading back now I realise you were much more serious about your accusations towards X-man than I realised.

I still disagree with them though.

This interaction between Lupo and Jock, though it has given us Chrystal Clear, is the first interaction in this game that feels to me like two wolves having an alibi-argument to appear active. Besides, of course, every single exchange between the X-man and me 

Learning from the best, mate.

 

[MaHuD]

All posts from Marowit/Eternal/Catholic as of this moment:

I'm alive!

Vote: Big McLarge-Huge

Too excited to be a villager.

In a game this small and simple, where the furries lack fancy dancing tricks, I think keeping the pros on hand is probably more likely to benefit the village. If they're innocents, they can figure out the wolves more efficiently, and if they're wolves, we can afford to string up a less experienced townie before we move to murder the vets who will give us more information to chew on regardless of their team by virtue of their enthusiastic and frequent participation in the game. With this in mind,


Vote: Marowit

Unvote

Vote: The Flying "my packmate is a pro player so let's keep him alive" Fishy

Only game-related post from Marowit is this counter-vote.

Congratz, you found us. We're packies. Soot randomly rolled the two most awesome players as packies in a small game without specials and thought..."you know what? A smashing victory by those guys is EXACTLY what's gonna revive WW on this forum. Everybody will be like...woah, that was fun being eaten, let's do that again right away". So yeah, that's totally what happened. But don't tell dem others, ok? 

Nothing to fear though, our most present and visible player posting spammy memes and egomaniacal "vote for Xardob because I said so" rants will revive the community all the same.

Congratz, you found us. We're packies. Soot randomly rolled the two most awesome players as packies in a small game without specials and thought..."you know what? A smashing victory by those guys is EXACTLY what's gonna revive WW on this forum. Everybody will be like...woah, that was fun being eaten, let's do that again right away". So yeah, that's totally what happened. But don't tell dem others, ok? 

Nothing to fear though, our most present and visible player posting spammy memes and egomaniacal "vote for Xardob because I said so" rants will revive the community all the same.

I want to apologize for this snipe - driving to Portland for a long time after rotten sleep put me in the crankiest of moods.

Rara I'm in Seattle for spring break I'll post tonight when I'm on drugs

Drugs were fake I have no interest in posting I quit.

Just kidding expect something later tonight or tomorrow.

1 useful post out of 7, which is just a quick contra-vote on Fishy. Nothing has followed it up since, hell these last comments from him seem to only have magically shown up since he was being mentioned by people. So far this seems a classic wolf play, which is; lurk, stay on the background until late in the game to avoid being lynched and then brag about the victory.

 

[Vieira151]

Sorry I haven't been so active. I've had a bit of an up and down weekend. I've read up to page 10 and I'll use my time at work tomorrow to post some more

 

[Xardob]

I mean studying the relations between players will be really important the following days.

I suppose I should go in detail why I think pack hunting is bad, specially while you do with both players still alive.

You see, WW is a game of asymmetrical information. The wolves are always more informed than the village. That means it's way easier to manipulate interactions for outcomes they prefer. They can easily choose who they want to appear to be defending, who they attack, which players they want to be linked to and who to distance from. A villager doesn't have any of that and must work based on assumptions. And when you're linking two players who are still alive, you're working from multiple assumptions, that the wolves can easily manipulate. Once you have a confirmed dead wolf, it's easier, but I still think it's mostly a bad idea because you never know when the wolf in question was manipulating interactions to lead the village off.

Great LoS. I love it. 

I don't. It could have been so much better, but I suppose I'm a bit rusty. 

Makes me want to get drunk and post here again. Maybe one of these days I'll get some beers and set away an hour to spam you guys with my drunkenness...

Do it.

Bolded part is the reason for half of the people going after you, isn't it? 

Well, yes, but you know how it is. 

Sorry guys, I read all your banter, but could somebody explain to me what the hell you two are raving on about? 

They do seem to be talking past each other.

Now there's the MaHuD I know and love.

 

[Arch3r]

Got some hours to spare before my flight. It is also probably my last opportunity before my deadline to make a longer post.

5. Arch3r - Runner up for worst opening vote alongside Eternal. This just screams wolf not wanting to get involved in anything that might bring him trouble. Jumped right into the Fishy wagon after that. The entire argument was pointless. Then, there's his LoS. Aside from a couple players, he doesn't seem to have a strong opinion on anyone, almost as if he's keeping his options open. His opinion on Fishy is particularly interesting. If Fishys is indeed innocent, I bet this is a wolf defending someone he knows is a villager and made a bad mistake, just to look good after the innocent is lynched. His entire case against Jock and me seems to revolve around our comments about each other, which is poor hunting, unless you're a wolf.

... or it's just my 2nd time playing and fixing a mistake? And, I am jumping on the Fishy wagon - and I am defending him? Which one is it?

At the time, he was the only one with a longer post, so I commented on it. If you call that jumping on the Fishy Wagon (commenting on his post) and defending him (not voting for him, despite commenting his logic was flawed), then I disagree with your logic.

Aside from a couple players, he doesn't seem to have a strong opinion on anyone, almost as if he's keeping his options open.

As if. There is so much wrong with this statement.
Aside from a couple players... isn't that enough? There's only 8 other players. How many players should I accuse for it be enough? Apparently only your style of LoS is good enough, where everybody is a different kind of wolf, is that it? Speaking of keeping options open...
A strong opinion ... what qualifies as a strong opinion? A vote? I did vote. How is your opinion any stronger than mine, I fail to see it.
And once more about the 'keeping options open' ... 4 days before the deadline and with some players hardly having posted anything, yes I am keeping options open until the people that may have been too busy to post thus far, also start posting. Guilty as charged.


I personally think this whole veteran act is rather annoying. Making statements like:

Gauging player reactions by placing votes is what every experienced player does. Well, almost every experienced player. There are those that sit in the corner smoking, commenting cynically on everybodies attempts at getting something going, and twirling their chest hair, and that's that. Not sure that gets us a lot further.

This is what veterans do and what players should do, to try to shoehorn people into your playing style and thus:

to manipulate interactions for outcomes they prefer.

(Disclaimer: yes the quote is deliberately taken out of context)
Plus then there's using names like Adaham, Eternal, Vieira. These are names that don't say me much and come across as flexing knowledge - "I know this player better than you"



End of rant, mostly unrelated to wolf hunting. I say mostly, because I do believe the veterans probably have set up this whole routine in which it is hard to distinguish their act as a villager from their act as a wolf. If I were a veteran player and a wolf (or: if I were Xardob), I'd just copy the exact same thing I always do: start with some crisscross voting to gauge reactions and end up accusing everybody of being a wolf and trying to manipulate people into voting for those you see as a threat. Bringing me back to this.

You see, WW is a game of asymmetrical information. The wolves are always more informed than the village. That means it's way easier to manipulate interactions for outcomes they prefer. They can easily choose who they want to appear to be defending, who they attack, which players they want to be linked to and who to distance from. A villager doesn't have any of that and must work based on assumptions. And when you're linking two players who are still alive, you're working from multiple assumptions, that the wolves can easily manipulate. Once you have a confirmed dead wolf, it's easier, but I still think it's mostly a bad idea because you never know when the wolf in question was manipulating interactions to lead the village off.

So, how aren't you exactly what you describe as being a wolf-action? You list me as your highest suspect of being a wolf (unless I got your ordering wrong), you list Jock as ... safe?

4. Jock - This post is his most problematic so far. Framing the discussion on his terms so that he can railroad it however he wants. Then signaling his innocence without actually acting on it. I'm also uncomfortable with anyone defending me, so add another strike to him.

I know I've been flying a bit under the radar and am probably coming off a tad hypocritical when mentioning other inactive people, no excuses there.

This also seems very self conscious. Anything you got to hide, Jock?

Domesticated wolves - Jock, Vieira and Dago

Then you hardly seem to formulate an opinion on him and try to distance yourself from him defending you. Has he made a mistake in defending you? And now you try to distance yourself from him, by saying that's uncomfortable... but still try to paint him off as innocent? I find that rather suspect.


To sum up:

• You and Jock seem to be overly friendly.
• I vote for, and focus on Jock, you try to dismiss me as saying I do not have any strong opinion about anyone.
• You state wolves "can easily choose who they want to appear to be defending, who they attack, which players they want to be linked to and who to distance from".
• You defend Jock, attack Fishy and me and ... possibly try to link yourself to these veterans?: Waiting for the moon to come out - Adaham, Eternal and MaHuD

To clarify the last part. You put them in the middle, basically stating "I am not defending you, but I do not think you're a real suspect either". Eternal/Marowit is the odd one out here, as he has not posted much, but I reckon you want to be on good terms with Adaham and MaHuD as they're vocal and as you described MaHuD: aggressive. I suppose you're hoping they'll also go easy on you? As for Eternal, your only comment on him is that he's a lazy wolf?

I mean studying the relations between players will be really important the following days.

I suppose I should go in detail why I think pack hunting is bad, specially while you do with both players still alive.

"Pack hunting is bad" - Person accused of being in a pack with Jock.

 

[Jock]

Congrats mate, you've earned it.

 

[Dago Wolfrider]

Congrats mate, you've earned it.

What's that?

 

[Xardob]

Aside from a couple players... isn't that enough? There's only 8 other players. How many players should I accuse for it be enough? Apparently only your style of LoS is good enough, where everybody is a different kind of wolf, is that it? Speaking of keeping options open...
A strong opinion ... what qualifies as a strong opinion? A vote? I did vote. How is your opinion any stronger than mine, I fail to see it.
And once more about the 'keeping options open' ... 4 days before the deadline and with some players hardly having posted anything, yes I am keeping options open until the people that may have been too busy to post thus far, also start posting. Guilty as charged.

Strong opinions don't have to mean you think someone is a wolf, you know. I should be able to know who you think is an innocent beyond all doubt by looking at your LoS. I don't.

Plus then there's using names like Adaham, Eternal, Vieira. These are names that don't say me much and come across as flexing knowledge - "I know this player better than you"

Or, you know, you play years with someone (or over a decade, as is the case with Adaham) under a name and you just get used to call him that. Heck, I still refer to Eternal half the time as Catholic.

I say mostly, because I do believe the veterans probably have set up this whole routine in which it is hard to distinguish their act as a villager from their act as a wolf.

Here you are correct. I spent years obscuring my village play, mostly so I could live longer.

So, how aren't you exactly what you describe as being a wolf-action? You list me as your highest suspect of being a wolf (unless I got your ordering wrong), you list Jock as ... safe?

Sorry, now you completely lost me.