SP Fantasy Warsword Conquest - New Opening Post

[polloio]

I don't know about you, maybe you learnt spanish at school but if you did not I haven't got the slightest idea of how you could understand him, because I know that both Italian and Spanish come from Latin and they're pretty similar but if I was watching an Italian youtuber's video I wouldn't be able to understand anything tbh 

I don't know a single friggin word in spanish....that's why I'm surprised

Maybe it's a sign that I should add it to my universitary study plan.....

 

[Nameless Warrior]

More troop tree weirdness (not sure if that one has already been mentioned) : the Stormvermin has 4 Ironflesh while the other similar units (Moulder Rat Rider and Plague Priest) have 15 and 14. I think they have Ignore Pain too (not sure where I can check in-game, maybe I'm blind but I don't see that info in the troop tree report) so the impact of losing 10 ironflesh is quite big.

That is not weirdness. If a troop has more than 1 wound in the tabletop game that transfers into warsword into extra health which starts in ironflesh and then spills over into strength.

 

[Wendek]

But isn't basically the Stormvermin much weaker than the other high-level Skaven melee units then ? Maybe I missed something obvious but right now I can't see why I'd ever take them over either a Plague Priest (who has 80+ hps even if he can't block) or a Rat Rider.

 

[Nameless Warrior]

But isn't basically the Stormvermin much weaker than the other high-level Skaven melee units then ? Maybe I missed something obvious but right now I can't see why I'd ever take them over either a Plague Priest (who has 80+ hps even if he can't block) or a Rat Rider.

because rat riders are pretty poor despite the extra health and ignore pain, they pretty much get isolated and die and the rat is the weakest mount and goes down easy as well. Also being mounted the speed bonus against them when they get hit pretty much makes up the difference.

Plague priest body armour : 22  (no ignore pain)  Stormvermin body armour: 49 which is a massive difference. Plus plague priests are light and get out ahead of the troops putting them in more danger. If they didn't have higher health you would not get value out of them on the battlefield. They are shock troops while stormvermin are your backbone. An ideal skaven army will need both.

 

[HorusCrowlix]

There are Chaos Chosen Knights, but there should be an option for dismounted Chaos Chosen. Or dramatically increase the XP required to upgrade from Knight to Chosen.

Not entirely sure where you find Chosen Knights. GW always, literally always, has Chosen on foot. They're elite infantry, not cavalry. Chaos Champions, however, can be mounted.

 

[Wendek]

But isn't basically the Stormvermin much weaker than the other high-level Skaven melee units then ? Maybe I missed something obvious but right now I can't see why I'd ever take them over either a Plague Priest (who has 80+ hps even if he can't block) or a Rat Rider.

because rat riders are pretty poor despite the extra health and ignore pain, they pretty much get isolated and die and the rat is the weakest mount and goes down easy as well. Also being mounted the speed bonus against them when they get hit pretty much makes up the difference.

Plague priest body armour : 22  (no ignore pain)  Stormvermin body armour: 49 which is a massive difference. Plus plague priests are light and get out ahead of the troops putting them in more danger. If they didn't have higher health you would not get value out of them on the battlefield. They are shock troops while stormvermin are your backbone. An ideal skaven army will need both.

Rat Riders can be dismounted and used as infantry though. Certainly the Giant Rat seems pretty weak as a mount but armor is 44 vs 49 (offset by 10 more IF with Ignore Pain), and admittedly lower weapon damage with shorter reach.
But well I'm not yet at the point where I can have any of those units anyway, maybe it'll feel different once I get to use all of them. It just seems that the Stormvermin would have trouble playing the role of a tank in a big battle - which is what I'd want them to do because the main Skaven source of damage is always going to be guns and not melee weapons anyway.

 

[Nameless Warrior]

But isn't basically the Stormvermin much weaker than the other high-level Skaven melee units then ? Maybe I missed something obvious but right now I can't see why I'd ever take them over either a Plague Priest (who has 80+ hps even if he can't block) or a Rat Rider.

because rat riders are pretty poor despite the extra health and ignore pain, they pretty much get isolated and die and the rat is the weakest mount and goes down easy as well. Also being mounted the speed bonus against them when they get hit pretty much makes up the difference.

Plague priest body armour : 22  (no ignore pain)  Stormvermin body armour: 49 which is a massive difference. Plus plague priests are light and get out ahead of the troops putting them in more danger. If they didn't have higher health you would not get value out of them on the battlefield. They are shock troops while stormvermin are your backbone. An ideal skaven army will need both.

Rat Riders can be dismounted and used as infantry though. Certainly the Giant Rat seems pretty weak as a mount but armor is 44 vs 49 (offset by 10 more IF with Ignore Pain), and admittedly lower weapon damage with shorter reach.
But well I'm not yet at the point where I can have any of those units anyway, maybe it'll feel different once I get to use all of them. It just seems that the Stormvermin would have trouble playing the role of a tank in a big battle - which is what I'd want them to do because the main Skaven source of damage is always going to be guns and not melee weapons anyway.

It is true that stormvermin are not quite as good as they could be but they are still not bad. I think there is a role for both

Stormvermin: Shield, higher armour, high cutting damage with more reach and an excellent sword to fall back on.

Rat rider: Better stats, more health, ignore pain. Medium blunt damage weapon with no fall back weapon. Mounted on weak mount in an army with hardly any mounts.

You can dismount them each game but if you are going to do that then you deserve a little reward. Honestly though performance wise there is not much between them from what I have seen.

I would like to hear your thoughts once you have experienced the army properly.

 

[Wendek]

With PBOD you can auto-dismount though. :p Well, admittedly last time I tried (in Floris) it didn't work super well and my units still ended up being mounted... never quite understood what was happening there. But in theory you can give them "Dismount" as one of their initial orders. Also I'm thinking of perhaps playing them like I would Swadians/Vaegirs in Floris : have several ranks of powerful ranged units with cavalry hanging slightly back, and unleash cavalry once the enemy is close to wreak havoc.
Maybe the Stormvermin will be better during sieges though, not sure which would matter more in that situation between 5 armor and 20 hps.

 

[Articulo34]

Nameless, may I ask why the overhead thrust attack for two-handed polearms has not been added? I understand not adding a one-handed one, as it requires an extra animation that would have to come from somewhere, but the two-handed is already there and adding it is not that hard (at least not using Morgh´s and manually editing the actions file).

P.S Don´t take this as criticism, for it is not. It´s just simple curiosity.

 

[Wendek]

Small bug : http://imgur.com/a51RHoj

Looks like some dialog may be broken for non-human characters. (At least I assume it's because his skin is not 1 or 2) The companion that Pikit is talking about here is Uggluk. Not sure how easy/hard that would be to fix however, maybe it's too much work for something that remains pretty minor.

 

[Krowe93]

You should release the source so everyone has a fair chance to create submods.

I know /MBG/ would kill to get their hands on the source.

Not just them, but the Warsword team still has the right to incorporate good stuff into the mod. I don't understand why it's made to be so difficult. I mean if Talesworld did the same thing, then most of the popular mods wouldn't even exist.

 

[hoboistice]

I understand not adding a one-handed one, as it requires an extra animation that would have to come from somewhere

Actually there's one in CommonRes/ani_attacks (javelin_thrust_overhead) but it looks a bit ****.

 

[Temuzu]

You should release the source so everyone has a fair chance to create submods.

Isn't there a tool for creating a version of the source code from the module files?

 

[Nameless Warrior]

Nameless, may I ask why the overhead thrust attack for two-handed polearms has not been added? I understand not adding a one-handed one, as it requires an extra animation that would have to come from somewhere, but the two-handed is already there and adding it is not that hard (at least not using Morgh´s and manually editing the actions file).

P.S Don´t take this as criticism, for it is not. It´s just simple curiosity.

Not criticism at all, I just haven't thought about it. I just use the usual capability sets and none of the commonly used sets for 2 handed polearms seem to include the two handed thrust animation. The most common one for polearms is itc_staff which uses the thrust_one_handed_lance option. Even the poleax and polehammer use that in native even though they are purely two handed weapons. What I can do is create a new set for the pure 2 handers which need a thrust and give it to them. I have added it to my to do list.

 

[Tonic22]

Hi,

When do you think the next patch will be ready ?

I wait to play for a long time without lost my save.

 

[Nameless Warrior]

Hi,

When do you think the next patch will be ready ?

I wait to play for a long time without lost my save.

I am not sure I will release it tomorrow as I still have a fair bit to investigate. I may push back for Monday or Tuesday, i will see where I am tomorrow evening.

 

[Articulo34]

Not criticism at all, I just haven't thought about it. I just use the usual capability sets and none of the commonly used sets for 2 handed polearms seem to include the two handed thrust animation. The most common one for polearms is itc_staff which uses the thrust_one_handed_lance option. Even the poleax and polehammer use that in native even though they are purely two handed weapons. What I can do is create a new set for the pure 2 handers which need a thrust and give it to them. I have added it to my to do list.

As I´ve never used the module system I am not entirely sure I understand what you are saying. You mean that you assign animations to weapons based on sets instead of individually? On Morgh´s what I do is untick "overswing_polearm" and tick "overswing_spear" (after binding the proper animation in actions.txt, of course).

Actually there's one in CommonRes/ani_attacks (javelin_thrust_overhead) but it looks a bit ****.

Never seen it before. But it´s too long to be effective. Most attack animations are between 40 and 60 frames, that one is 101.

 

[metalmariolord]

Played "Warsword Rigale" for some time.
The stuff the mod adds is pretty good, especially how you can get XP by literally walking around in the map(exploration skill). I played with crafting for some time, got some fancy armor, but didn't use it a lot.
Didn't play enough to see how diplomacy would work for me(the player character), but saw it working for the factions(some treaties, the empire getting into war with 6 factions because of an alliance).

BTW, what is this "/MBG/" that would kill for the mod's source code?

 

[kevinflemming]

I am not sure I will release it tomorrow as I still have a fair bit to investigate. I may push back for Monday or Tuesday, i will see where I am tomorrow evening.

Take your time, NW. It's better to spend a bit longer on it, if you feel that is necessary. There's no rush.

 

[Nameless Warrior]

Not criticism at all, I just haven't thought about it. I just use the usual capability sets and none of the commonly used sets for 2 handed polearms seem to include the two handed thrust animation. The most common one for polearms is itc_staff which uses the thrust_one_handed_lance option. Even the poleax and polehammer use that in native even though they are purely two handed weapons. What I can do is create a new set for the pure 2 handers which need a thrust and give it to them. I have added it to my to do list.

As I´ve never used the module system I am not entirely sure I understand what you are saying. You mean that you assign animations to weapons based on sets instead of individually? On Morgh´s what I do is untick "overswing_polearm" and tick "overswing_spear" (after binding the proper animation in actions.txt, of course).

Yes otherwise the text will get too long. Here are the polearm sets

itc_parry_polearm = itcf_parry_forward_polearm | itcf_parry_up_polearm | itcf_parry_right_polearm | itcf_parry_left_polearm

itc_poleaxe    = itc_parry_polearm| itcf_overswing_polearm |itcf_thrust_polearm|itcf_slashright_polearm|itcf_slashleft_polearm

itc_staff      = itc_parry_polearm| itcf_thrust_onehanded_lance |itcf_thrust_onehanded_lance_horseback| itcf_overswing_polearm |itcf_thrust_polearm|itcf_slashright_polearm|itcf_slashleft_polearm

itc_spear      = itc_parry_polearm| itcf_thrust_onehanded_lance |itcf_thrust_onehanded_lance_horseback | itcf_thrust_polearm

itc_cutting_spear = itc_spear|itcf_overswing_polearm

itc_pike      = itcf_thrust_onehanded_lance |itcf_thrust_onehanded_lance_horseback | itcf_thrust_polearm

itc_guandao = itc_parry_polearm|itcf_overswing_polearm|itcf_thrust_polearm|itcf_slashright_polearm|itcf_slashleft_polearm|itcf_horseback_slashright_onehanded|itcf_horseback_slashleft_onehanded|itcf_horseback_slash_polearm

So I would just use itc_staff for example and that is all that is needed.

Some of the long axes (which I made polearms purely for the holding animation) use the nodachi one  "itc_nodachi    = itc_cut_two_handed | itc_parry_two_handed" and I would keep those even though they are classified now as polearms as they are not made for thrusting.