SP Fantasy Warsword Conquest - New Opening Post

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Mesmer1911

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Wood elves are absolute cancer and need fixing. They get a good troop of every class (including mounted lancer's and horse archers) and most of their units have dodge. They are so incredibly anti fun I auto resolve when I have the troops for it. It is not fun to swing a sword at a dude 10 times in a row and have every swing say (he dodged). Especially when half of their damn army is dodgers. Even worse, they are often accompanied by mages that spam dodge increase magic. I don't get why they not only are the best at archery, horse archery, and shock infantry, when they also get to avoid attacks. Not to mention they attack WHILE DODGING, making them impossible to hitstun. Chaos is pretty op but I never felt so bored and irritated fighting them, or any other race.
 

hipp522

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PLEASE add infinite reinforcement waves so battles finish in one big fight not 1000 small fights, so disappointing this isn't in this mod. Not having it makes defending sieges pointless and boring, with no loot.
 

hipp522

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Kislev and prag sieges are both broken, siege ladders have inivisble walls halfway up.
 
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ggttcc2

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looks like the team has abandoned this thread. However it is very uncommon for a popular mod to have everyone of its player base on Discord, especially those from “exotic” countries.
 

ggttcc2

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I'm having issues with a quest, i need to free Maldrex from Sir Chevalier, but when i beat him the dialogue just keeps repeating and i cant free Maldrex. Can anyone help pls?
same happend to me. In my previous playthrough I was able to finish the quest though.
 

PsychoThruster

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While discord may be the more preferred method of submitting feedback and suggestions, it's format is ill suited to the task so I'm dropping it here.

This mod needs to shift away from being a native warband module with a Warhammer face lift. The biggest thing that needs an overhaul in my opinion is troop recruitment and progression, it's impossible to get the Warhammer experience within the standard warband model.

Secondly I strongly encourage taking inspiration from the last days mod in several key areas. First certain units only being recruitable from specific locations. Second the ability to permanently destroy settlements though I'd add that faction leaders should be able to build new settlements on the razed plot though it should take months. Third the possibility for Lords to permanently die. Fourth the battle maps which are significantly larger and feel like real places because the terrain is generally flatter and transitions well into hills and valleys.

The strength of TLD is that it is an actual campaign the player can help to win or lose. That is something that is a core Warhammer experience and should be seriously considered with an eye towards TLD for inspiration.

As for troop progression, recruitment, and balance... Well right now these things are terrible because of the attempt to place them within the native warband system and the apparent goal of including every possible permutation of unit present in tabletop.

Hopefully this is something you are open to addressing. I suggest completely abandoning native recruitment, troop trees, individual soldier leveling, and companions then building systems more in line with WFB tabletop to replace them.

Here's how I'd go about it. Party size is reduced to half of your leadership skill plus a base value of 1, +1 more for mercenary, +1 more for Lord, +1 more for faction leader. So party size is literally 1(minimum)-9(maximum).

Instead of companions the player finds unit leaders to fill out their party. These are men and women who when hired as companions bring a unit of troops into battle with them.

Troops are tooled to specific roles and no longer level up, instead their unit leader levels up and has skills which increase how fast they can replenish casualties. An empire spearmen troop leader may always bring say 20 spearmen, whereas a chaos champion leader may only bring 5 champions. This system allows for the replication of something like the point system in tabletop.

This removes the need to grind high tier units and instead makes the player consider the cost and use of each unit type, the strength and weaknesses, and overall army composition. Wanna play horde? You got it! Wanna be a small elite force? You got that too!

Next I'd make tactics a head to head stat. If you engage an enemy Lord with 5 tactics and you have 6, the difference of 1 is then subtracted from his party, so his bottom unit leader will not be available to assist in that battle. No one should be reduced below 3 unit leaders or to say it another way 3 squads. When multiple Lords are fighting their tactics are added together with their allies to determine the outcome, but whoever has the lowest tactics score individually is the one whose units are denied the field down to the minimum 3 then it continues on down the line.

Severely wounded squad leaders who cannot participate in a fight cannot field their troops.

Hopefully I've provided enough detail for people to see the potential of this design, I think for anyone familiar the tabletop experience it is very obvious.

I know a tremendous amount of time and effort has already gone into this modification, and I don't know how much longer the team wants to continue developing it, but if the idea is to keep it going I hope you will adopt these suggestions.

Cheers
 

Cybersbe

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So in my game, I just wiped out the Beastmen. One of their members later joined the Dwarfs. This obviously doesn't make much sense lore wise. I'm not too familiar with how cheats work, and I don't wanna break the game. So I want to know if there is a way to specifically relocate lords to different factions?

Also, I think there should be some Outlaw Orcs. Goblins are hardly the only Greenskins willing to antagonize everyone including their own kind just for kicks.
 
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shikaka

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Hi,

on moddb I found:
Warsword Conquest (+Patches)
Warsword Conquest Winds of Magic Edition Beta (+patches)
Warsword Conquest Freelancer Edition (+patch)
Warsword Conquest: Dungeons Edition


It seems that there are two "main" mods there, Warsword conquest and warsword conquest freelancer.
And two submods (winds of magic and dungeons).

Out of these, which is the most stable? (I don't care if I miss out on magic or freelancer, only battlefield performance/gamebraking bugs matter to me)

Thanks a lot!
 

shikaka

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I don't actually know which is the last version, so I am playing "Warsword Conquest Freelancer edition + patch". The others seem to be submods? All following feedback is related to that version.

The mod is wicked good fun! I especially like playing the skaven, goblins and orcs! Will try chaos dwarfs next :smile:


WSE
I always had trouble using it. A few pages back I found a tip from a player which ultimately worked for me. I had to copy the contents of the WSE folder from /Warsword to the main Warband directory.
Thanks for the tip!


Performance
After reading through the topic, I expected serious lags and stutters, as I don't have a dedicated gaming PC. It is not old, but not a real gaming rig. It was a pleasant surprise to be honest, mostly it runs fine.
There are two exceptions: some siege scenes with mists and other effects, and fighting the Empire. Empire units look very cool, but it seems my PC cannot handle them in big variety. In the end I opted to play folks on friendly terms with the empire, or far away from them.


Companions
In general the named ones are really cool, I especially like the writing.
My only concern is the lack of low level companions, who could become medics are pathfinders. The best I found are Oggy Boggy and the two araby guys, but thematically they don't fit with evil races.
In my game I edited Bug, Bastich, Adele (? barefoot archer lady) and Nakwatcha to be level 1 intelligence heroes.

Suggestion: there are ~50 generic companions, but they are randomly levelled up when generating the game. Unfortunately this results in them becoming useless. For example the dwarf I recruited had 4 in horse archery, 2 in magic with 1's all over the place.
Suggestion: They would be much more useful as the Gekokujo generic companions: level 1, STR 9 AGI 9 INT 9 CHA 9 (or 8's or 10's) weapon master 6, ironflesh 3, weapon profs all 80 or 100.
This way you could get a skaven medic or a vampire pathfinder by level 8-10.
Suggestion 2: (I think this is much more difficult to implement). On auto level-ups, there should be some skills which are never taken, such as horse archery, power throw, willpower, magic, etc.. Also, even after randomizing, the total level should be rather low (5 or so), so that the companion could be saved with some care.


Female armor
I didn't find a female kislev armor for my ice witch character. Also, in general there are not many female armor choices for wizards. (I used some native warband "nord furs" from the cheat menu for the ice witch)


Tournament
I don't find tournaments fun in this mod, and there are two reasons for this.
The first issue is that when spawning without a shield I cannot tell which bots are in my team. (even when spawning with one, I have to turn around the camera to check the color)
Fighting lords in their overpowered armor with a wooden club is very-very-very time consuming. Last night I had a fight in the finals with the nippon faction leader, and it took about 20 hits (each for 1-3 damage) to kill him.

Suggestion:
- if you want to leave the armor in, give a japanese style banner, a sashimono to the troops (which is visible on the back of bots when not being used actively). This way you would see the color of yourself and the bots all along. The added value would be that the shields could be removed, so the fights would end sooner.
- it would be nice to have a backup sword when spawning with a lance


General gameplay

Freelancer:
In general I don't really like freelancer, but here it has a very nice, but I guess unintended side effect. After character creation, you can immediately sign up, and then instantly retire from service. You get 1000XP for doing this, but more importantly, retiring sets the relationship with everyone to 0. (I think the freelancer contract overwrites the original faction standings) So you can visit evil towns as a good race and vica-versa.

Renown: I will need to further test this, but I feel that the AI lords have too much renown. Since renown is decreasing continuously, it is very difficult to have more then 1500-2000, and the AI lords have more than that. This results in two things: unnecessarily big armies and the player not getting fiefs awarded.
Suggestion: I think it would be nice to decrease renown to lower levels. ~1500 for the top dogs, and ~1000 for the rest.

Looting: Currently you get an honor penalty for doing it, which means that it will decrease relations with lords. It is really strange when you get a relationship hit with a chaos lord, for looting a Kislev village.
Suggestion: I think rather than reworking all lord personalities, the easiest would be to turn off the village raid honor penalty. This would fit the lore I think, definietly for chaos and dark elves, but I think burning a chaos village should be ok for empire lords too.

Magic: Hm. On one hand this is the most impressive magic system implemented in any warband mod, including Phantasy Calradia and Chronicles of Might and Magic. On the other hand, it is very demanding: no meaningful armor, no ranged weapons, and not usable in sieges. It is possible to delete whole reinforcements waves with some AoE spells. However, I feel that in most cases it is a "win more" option. That is, in the long run you would be just as useful without magic, but with heavy armor + ranged attacks. There are a few expections though, where a certain magic school would greatly help with a weakness of a faction. (eg. when troops have no piercing/blunt weapons, turning enemy armor into lead. When troops lack halberds/pikes, slowing down the enemy cavalry movement, increased movement speed/less ranged damage for infantry factions, etc.)

Magic 2: I couldn't figure out what "ward save" and "decrease/increase courage" mean.


Faction balance: I didn't not play all factions of course, but I tried three shorter games (two with cheats to try out options). It seems that the orcs and chaos really have it rough. Especially orks on a battlefield, with no hills to break line of sight. What would help them greatly in live battles: boar riders available earlier (currently they are tier4!), to act as a decoy until the infantry arrives.
Suggestion: move boar riders to a lower tier, and possibly to the skirmisher/archer line. This would make the orcs use more infantry, the same amount of boar riders (but earlier), and less archers, which would help them I think.
Suggeston 2: some stronger neutral stacks, or an early fixed war would maybe keep the dwarfs and empire a bit, so that they don't gang up on the orcs.
Suggestion 3: some factions with spread out territory have difficulties concentrating their forces. Tomb Kings, Chaos and Dark Elves are impacted the most. It would do them good to make their territories more compact, or to spread out the lord holdings. (if lords have fiefs on both ends of the country, they have a higher chance to happen to be where the problem is. They don't sit in their castle, because they sometimes visit their other fief on the other end of the country)




Question:

- is there some documentation available for companion relationships? I recenty lost the ogre king companion, because the chaos champion disliked him.
- is there some documentation with character generation? I am not really a warhammer scholar, so I don't even understand what the choices supposed to mean (in what terrain were you planted? Rocky-lush, etc. o_O). And even when I do, they give unpredictable results (eg. getting throwing with blood bowl background). Since I don't understand, I usually just export the character and redistribute the points...
- the most important: is there a list of spell effects per school? In general I feel that for me, the best are schools with a minor magic missile, and ally buff spells. But it is not easy to identify these. (save. enter guild, pick school, check spells, nope, reload, enter guild...) Alternatively, does anyone know which schools are set up like this? 1 minor magic missile + ally buffs.
 
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shikaka

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@shikaka

Actually, the latest version is the Dungeons Edition.
Thanks, I will update :smile:

If you played with a magic user, do you know which schools have:
- one minor magic missile (going into melee in light armor but no dodge is not a good idea)
- one or two useful buffs or debuffs (sometimes you cannot use AoE, so these are fun)
- the rest don't matter

For the moment I tried the Tomb King special magic, which really improves their battlefield performance. (the school has exactly the buffs/hexes to counter the weak points of the Tomb King army) Unfortunately it has no magic missile, so most of the time you ride around with a melee weapon in light armor, with predictable results.

I also tried
- I think Tzeentch (not sure, a chaos one), which has very good missiles and AoE, but doesn't have buff spells.
- and ork waaagh. This is actually rather nice, it has a missile and waagh is a cool buff spell. The rest is ... ok. I think with an orc, I could do a bigger impact with heavy armor and other intelligence skills (surgery, engineer, pathfinding, training) instead of going for magic.
 

shikaka

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Some feedback (for the dungeons this time):

- tournament field dialog is broken ("we will fight to the end"). This was actually the same in the Freelancer version too
- chaos dwarf carbine has no texture
- it seems that playing as a skeleton, I lose honor when winning a tournament
- the dwarf handcannon (from travelling mage stock) has no AoE
- sometimes I randomly lose heal/cure potions. (not when tell me about yourself on a troop! I even get a message saying healing potion is lost)
- some magic has no visible effect, but some do (eg. tomb king AoE doesn't have a visible effect - other than targets dieing - but the ward spell does)

General gameplay:
- I think the new gameplay balance in the favor of chaos works well
- but orks and vampires still lose hard fast. (sometimes start loosing sooner than I can join their ranks)
- the Tomb King - Araby front has too big distances (could some TK settlements be moved from the south and southeast to the west?)
- in general this seems also true for Dark Elves, who have big troubles getting from their High elf front to the Nippon front
- I am still undecided on magic. After some practice, it seems it is not just useful, but it might be the easiest route for powerlevelling. (encounter big parties alone, with AoE spells) But without armor and shield, you are really limited in battle.
- In general, some melee piercing weapons would be nice. What I found were mostly chaos items (not sure about using those on a non-chaos avatar), and the morningstar from the traveller mage.
- I don't understand the design decision behind the insane lord renown. Might work as intended, but very strange (I would decrease them with 1000 points each)
 
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shikaka

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Some further feedback on dungeons themselves:
- on easier difficulty, I found them nice for early game levelling and loot, which is nice. (early game is quite harsh in this mod)
- in general I didn't find many buggy areas. I once went into the wall by accident, but couldn't exit. (I couldn't decide if that relatively big hole in the wall is intended or not. Apparently it wasn't)
- I was not amused by the "spawn surrounded by enemies trick" rooms, but luckily these are not common
- in general I found the non-linear dungeons much more fun than the skyrim style linear ones. It is much more fun to have multiple approaches (and multiple spots for the AI to get behind your back), than a simple frontal attack
- the very best I think is the fortress with the river and the sunk ship. It has all the important parts implemented. (multiple approaches, possibility of the enemies to appear behind you, some interactivity, some loot)

If you need inspiration, there are quite a few nice short dungeons available for free, originally created for tabletop RPG:
- free downloads from Dyson's
- links to one page dungeon contest entries

link to favorite (good example for the multiple path/enemy behind your back without cheating, even though it is very small. There is even a very-very unpleasant surprise hidden in a secret room):


edit:
I realized that one of my favorite Warhammer products is essentially an endless megadungeon: Karak Azgal.
In a nutshell: there is outpost recently established (or conquered, don't remember) by a small clan of dwarfs, and they find entrances to a Moria-sized abandoned dwarf city complex. Since they don't have enough manpower to map it, not to mention clear it, they decide to outsource this activity to adventurers.
What happens: adventurers must pay for entry, they can battle and loot however they want, but when they get back up, the dwarfs will take all holy relics from the loot. The dwarfs also sell overprized adventuring supplies to "help" the effort. The rules are clear, but the dwarfs are quite crafty with identifying relics. Basicly this is a procedurally generated dungeon with all kinds of crazy stuff (buttom levels are not even ruined city like anymore). Actually it is a nice idea, with Warhammer humour.
 
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